IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[BetteDavisEyes]

‘Double devastation’: When kids die by accident, should caregivers be charged?

A grandfather's arrest after a toddler in his care plummeted to her death off a cruise ship highlights the intricacies of negligence cases, experts say.

Chloe Wiegand's family has no doubt her death was a horrific accident. They harbor no blame against her grandfather, Salvatore "Sam" Anello, who was with the toddler when she fell out of an 11th story window on a Royal Caribbean cruise in July.

But prosecutors — who on Monday arrested Anello on charges of negligent homicide — see the case differently. The charges, experts say, highlight a legal gray area: Should caregivers be held criminally responsible if a tragedy that was truly accidental resulted in the loss of a child's life?...

 

[neesaki]

‘Double devastation’: When kids die by accident, should caregivers be charged?

A grandfather's arrest after a toddler in his care plummeted to her death off a cruise ship highlights the intricacies of negligence cases, experts say.

Chloe Wiegand's family has no doubt her death was a horrific accident. They harbor no blame against her grandfather, Salvatore "Sam" Anello, who was with the toddler when she fell out of an 11th story window on a Royal Caribbean cruise in July.

But prosecutors — who on Monday arrested Anello on charges of negligent homicide — see the case differently. The charges, experts say, highlight a legal gray area: Should caregivers be held criminally responsible if a tragedy that was truly accidental resulted in the loss of a child's life?...

They’re still calling it a children’s play area. I wonder if this was orchestrated by their attorney. SMH

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

They’re still calling it a children’s play area. I wonder if this was orchestrated by their attorney. SMH

Misleading, to say the least. Here's the link for Deck 11 layout. The children's play area (H2O ZONE) is in the center of the ship. There are stair wells flanking the splash pad, a walkway along both sides of the waterpark, loungers, tables and chairs for passengers to sit and eat, drink, sunbathe, etc. The windows are along the perimeter of the vessel - definitely not IN THE CHILDREN'S PLAY AREA. If this case goes before a jury, Prosecutors will present deck plans with appropriate measurements so jurors can see how far the windows are from the children's play area.

Freedom of the Seas Deck 11 Deck Plan Tour

 

[oviedo]

‘Double devastation’: When kids die by accident, should caregivers be charged?

A grandfather's arrest after a toddler in his care plummeted to her death off a cruise ship highlights the intricacies of negligence cases, experts say.

Chloe Wiegand's family has no doubt her death was a horrific accident. They harbor no blame against her grandfather, Salvatore "Sam" Anello, who was with the toddler when she fell out of an 11th story window on a Royal Caribbean cruise in July.

But prosecutors — who on Monday arrested Anello on charges of negligent homicide — see the case differently. The charges, experts say, highlight a legal gray area: Should caregivers be held criminally responsible if a tragedy that was truly accidental resulted in the loss of a child's life?...

This strikes me as NBC continuing their storyline IMO - although I do think the part about caregivers who leave children in hot vehicles and how that is treated could be similar to this situation - it's negligence IMO. At least this story mentions that you would check for glass when you hoist a child that far up - that's common sense IMO and i'm glad it was pointed out. NBC appears to want to keep the story going - they really should offer a deck plan as part of the reporting because otherwise it is still very misleading JMO

 

[LvsAMystry]

This strikes me as NBC continuing their storyline IMO - although I do think the part about caregivers who leave children in hot vehicles and how that is treated could be similar to this situation - it's negligence IMO. At least this story mentions that you would check for glass when you hoist a child that far up - that's common sense IMO and i'm glad it was pointed out. NBC appears to want to keep the story going - they really should offer a deck plan as part of the reporting because otherwise it is still very misleading JMO

Everything about the storyline is misleading. It wasn’t really “in” the play area, and the open window sections are clearly distinguishable from the unopened ones.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

IMO he held her up to the open window so she could see out.
IF the “banging on the glass” story was true why did he pick the only window that she couldn’t have banged on?

JMO

As long as I have been alive, I have NEVER EVER not ONCE encountered people who think that "banging on glass" is an appropriate or common childhood pastime. Even at hockey games, (at least in Buffalo NY) my DH said that the fans are told NOT to bang on the glass at games. I am wondering how this whole family could be "OK" with a toddler doing this? Such a potentially dangerous way to play?? IDK...JMOHO.

 

[weepingangel]

I hadn’t seen that pic before. So the pool in front is the play area? Imo only, that area with the windows I would consider to be in the play area
Also, the circled opened windows don’t look nearly as high as I’d assumed . They do look obviously different than the closed ones.
There’s a older pic in an article that shows SA holding Chloe facing out sitting on his forearm And it stuns me every time I see it. Toddlers are top heavy and wiggly.
I do believe SA was negligent
Missing piece in toddler’s tragic fall

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/5760ae64-fe8f-46f7-9660-1b0f78d28010-jpeg.212312/

Everything about the storyline is misleading. It wasn’t really “in” the play area, and the open window sections are clearly distinguishable from the unopened ones.

 

[Lilibet]

As long as I have been alive, I have NEVER EVER not ONCE encountered people who think that "banging on glass" is an appropriate or common childhood pastime. Even at hockey games, (at least in Buffalo NY) my DH said that the fans are told NOT to bang on the glass at games. I am wondering how this whole family could be "OK" with a toddler doing this? Such a potentially dangerous way to play?? IDK...JMOHO.

I’ve noticed that people let toddlers do things that they think are “cute” and “harmless” that would be considered totally inappropriate and/or unsafe for an older child or adult. Not teaching little ones “no” makes life difficult for the child or teen who is told they can’t do it anymore. Start training young!

We don’t really know if the “whole family” was OK with Chloe banging on the glass. In the picture of Chloe at the ice rink it’s hard to tell if she was banging on the glass. It may well be that she wanted to and her parents intervened and trained her properly. But if the story is true that grandpa tells, he was fine with her banging on the glass, perhaps because she was too small to break it. As usual, not planning ahead that she would someday be an older child who would have to be told “No.” With the evidence we have, all responsibility falls on grandpa.
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Regarding the “banging on the glass” excuse, I personally believe this was made up later with a cute photo to “prove” it. She could have stood on the deck and banged the glass. The more obvious reason for lifting Chloe up to an open window was so she could look out more easily. If early eyewitnesses are to be believed, he was holding her on the window ledge or certainly too close to the opening in an unsafe way. She lurched/leaned/wiggled, he lost his balance and grip and the unthinkable but predictable tragedy happened.
JMO

 

[oviedo]

Regarding the “banging on the glass” excuse, I personally believe this was made up later with a cute photo to “prove” it. She could have stood on the deck and banged the glass. The more obvious reason for lifting Chloe up to an open window was so she could look out more easily. If early eyewitnesses are to be believed, he was holding her on the window ledge or certainly too close to the opening in an unsafe way. She lurched/leaned/wiggled, he lost his balance and grip and the unthinkable but predictable tragedy happened.
JMO

ITA - I think it was created to fit the scenario - I'm going on a cruise next month - RCCL and will check to see if the wind is blowing when the window is open while stationed in port. I have a theory about why one would lift a child up and not just to see - IIRC there is quite a breeze even when in port and my own children loved to feel the breeze on their face and the wind blowing their hair - I think that's part of what was going on here - JMO. still negligent of course IMO

 

[Safeguard]

IMO he held her up to the open window so she could see out.
IF the “banging on the glass” story was true why did he pick the only window that she couldn’t have banged on?

JMO

Right? This another reason why I never believed the "I didn't know the window was open" version of his ( ever changing!) story. Just an unfortunate coincidence that he stopped and held her up to look out the ONLY window that was open? I'm thinking...NO.

I really think they just wanted to blame the cruise line because they didn't want Grandpa charged (and possibly they just were emotionally incapable of facing the awful truth that he alone, caused this child's horrible death). Imo they weren't after after a cash grab.

 

[LietKynes]

I am looking forward to this trial and hope SA is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. JMOHO

Agreed, @SaguaroSpirit .
This is about Chloe and I think she would've wanted to live.

 

[LietKynes]

According to Sun article in above post, “mum” has time and temperament to post pictures on social media account.
I’d be in a coma from the shock.
I guess people react differently to tragedy.

Ita.
Her interviews on the talk shows were very composed and makeup was picture perfect.
She seemed to break down at the end and put her face in her hands, but when she looked up again-- no tears and makeup was perfect.
There is a disconnect going on and it may have nothing to do with the lawsuit.
This is about a toddler who was dangled and held out or through a window --according to the initial report by the cruise staff.
I am certain they were and still are aghast and horrified.
The first reports had nothing about the glass-banging .

 

[LietKynes]

I have cruised RCCL many times, and the windows open on every ship I've been on. From my own first hand knowledge, I always knew which windows were opened and which were closed. There was never a doubt in my mind. This is a tragedy IMO but it was entirely preventable. Any lawsuit moving forward against RCCL is a nuisance one IMO. I hope they don't even file it because all of the details will come out and IMO - it won't be good.
JMO

LBM

Agreed.
And my earlier post about the ship having all windows closed and bubble-wrapped and no access allowed to any areas that would show the ocean --- tongue in cheek.
I don't think people would want to sail on a ship that was completely enclosed to keep idiots safe from putting their babies through a window.
Interesting that the English-translated PR article used the words "...through the window...".
Nothing about sitting her on the rail or ledge.

 

[Montrealaise]

Criminal Charge, Possibilities Before Trial?
. @lonetraveler and Others
"... charge today is a criminal charge and not about to go away and can't be settled ahead of time."

If, big IF, PR's criminal justice system is like some/many US states, it's possible ---
(1) Prosecutor could move to withdraw charges now/before trial (for whatever reason). May/may not be able to refile later.
(2) At a pre-trial hearing, a judge could dismiss for lack or probably cause, for lack of evd, etc.
(3) Defendant could reach plea bargain/deal w prosecutor (for ex. child endangerment) a proposal a judge may/may not accept.
(4) ???
Not saying any of the above are likely. Just saying, if like some US states, a trial is not an unequivocal certainty, not like the sun coming up tomorrow morning in the east. jmo.

The prosecutor was quoted as saying the video shows definitely that the grandfather was grossly negligent. If that is the case, I imagine that his criminal defense attorney will advise him to try for a plea deal.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I've always imagined that Grandpa walked over to the window to look out at activity on the dock. I get the impression that this was likely the family's first cruise, and there is surely a lot to absorb when you're shipboard for the first time. During the embarkation process as passengers walk up the gangway to get on the ship, there is a lot of activity dockside. Luggage is being loaded onto the ship via conveyor belt. Forklifts with crates of food, beverages, paper products, etc. are moving around on the dock as these supplies are loaded onto the ship. Furniture, linens, mattresses, etc. might be loaded on/off the ship for replacement as needed. Local contractors might come onboard to do repairs or inspections while the ship is in port. The ship will take on fuel during port calls, so there might be tankers on the dock.

SA was probably fascinated by the activity on the dock below, and I can see little Chloe reaching up to Grandpa - "uppy, uppy" - as toddlers are wont to do, and he lifted her up to the window so she could see what he saw. I don't believe for a nano-second that SA did not know the window was open. He had chosen the open window for a clear view of the dock below and wanted to share the sights with Chloe, perhaps a well-intentioned gesture that went very wrong.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I have cruised RCCL many times, and the windows open on every ship I've been on. From my own first hand knowledge, I always knew which windows were opened and which were closed. There was never a doubt in my mind. This is a tragedy IMO but it was entirely preventable. Any lawsuit moving forward against RCCL is a nuisance one IMO. I hope they don't even file it because all of the details will come out and IMO - it won't be good.
JMO

Be careful what you wish for...

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

As long as I have been alive, I have NEVER EVER not ONCE encountered people who think that "banging on glass" is an appropriate or common childhood pastime. Even at hockey games, (at least in Buffalo NY) my DH said that the fans are told NOT to bang on the glass at games. I am wondering how this whole family could be "OK" with a toddler doing this? Such a potentially dangerous way to play?? IDK...JMOHO.

This is so strange and bizarre to me as well. I mean, there are parent and mothering forums filled with questions and suggestions on how to deter their toddlers from banging on glass, because THEY KNOW IT'S DANGEROUS, yet that fact somehow eluded this supposedly educated family? I don't know how often children are seen in the ER for glass related injuries, but I did find some interesting information while researching:
"Due to the involuntary actions carried out by a falling person, the injuries are often more severe, as the arms have been rapidly withdrawn back through a broken window exposing them to a second set of incised wounds.
Glass injuries can result in severe damage to skin and underlying nerves and vessels, as well as tendons, and result in significant long term disability. It is therefore vital that all such injuries are fully examined (usually under anaesthesia) for signs of neurovascular damage etc."

glass wounds :: www.forensicmed.co.uk

And this article describes a coating/film that while also tinting windows, reduces the likelihood of injuries from glass if broken:
"Commonly referred to as “safety coating,” this material is sold in clear or tinted sheets that bond to the glass during installation and prevent it from breaking into dangerous shards."
"Fire department tests have shown that a protected window can be used for emergency egress by breaking through the glass from the inside without excessive difficulty. The glass will break at the joint where it enters the frame, allowing the entire pane to be pushed out in one piece with far less risk of injury from sharp edges."
Safety Film on Windows Has Clear Benefits
Which could have been used on the cruise ship, not just for shading for as an extra safety precaution.
Finally, last summer my husband went to go push a window open, as he frequently did, by splaying his hand and pushing sideways from the bottom. The window broke and cut his hand (not badly), and he was barely using any pressure. So it certainly can happen.

Read more: http://m.forensicmed.webnode.com/wounds/sharp-force-trauma/glass-wounds/

 

[LvsAMystry]

Be careful what you wish for...

This is how I feel. Screaming via the media for LE to get to the bottom of things (to prove RCCL negligent), well they’re getting to the bottom of things as requested.

 

[MyBelle]

Right? This another reason why I never believed the "I didn't know the window was open" version of his ( ever changing!) story. Just an unfortunate coincidence that he stopped and held her up to look out the ONLY window that was open? I'm thinking...NO.

I really think they just wanted to blame the cruise line because they didn't want Grandpa charged (and possibly they just were emotionally incapable of facing the awful truth that he alone, caused this child's horrible death). Imo they weren't after after a cash grab.

I think the parents are still going to blame the cruise line because there were no warning signs to alert Grandpa. That's been their position from the beginning. I'm betting not one guest room on that ship with a window only, is a window that opens. I'm also betting the newly refurbished ship addresses the play area/open window safety issue.

JMO

Freedom of the Seas Cruise Ship to Undergo Refurbishment With Waterslides, New Eateries and More