GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #67

[altojack]

Typical.



Some sort of joke with his attorney.

From Billy's February 1st 2022, Hearing Video linked on page #42.

Billy laughing:

Think this could be the first smile I've seen on his ugly mug.

 

[Cool Cats]

Think this could be the first smile I've seen on his ugly mug.

Now that ya mention it, yup.

He started smiling when the judge asked him if he had been seeing his attorneys enough. Right before Covid hit he complained he wasn't seeing his attorneys enough in person to be able to go over the evidence against him. Then Covid hit and he could only see his attorneys over video so he must have been pretty peeved.

After Billy laughed his attorney seemed to be joking with the judge that Billy was upset that he didn't get a Christmas visit with the attorneys. Some weird joke or else Billy really was upset about not seeing his attorneys around Christmas.

Never know with Billy, he has a reputation for complaining if he doesn't like how his attorneys are defending him as mentioned by his attorney in a Court Hearing and in MSM.

The Columbus Dispatch
PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions
Five Years Later: The Rhoden Family Killings

Billy Wagner's attorneys told Pike County Common Pleas Judge Randy Deering earlier this month that their client disagrees with some of the defense strategies and is frustrated by how slow the case has progressed through the courts.

 

[Covert Operative]

Think this could be the first smile I've seen on his ugly mug.

I took that as a sarcastic laugh/smile, that he really wanted to say something negative and was letting them know that way. Kind of like yes he was seeing them enough, but they were not doing anything or not what he wanted. I did not take it as he and his attorney joking. I have thought for some time that there was some tension between he and Collins. Collins seemed to be trying to defuse BW with his Christmas comment that BW did not seem amused by.
I could have read the room wrong, but observing those few minutes, that is what it seemed to me.

 

[Betty P]

Now that ya mention it, yup.

He started smiling when the judge asked him if he had been seeing his attorneys enough. Right before Covid hit he complained he wasn't seeing his attorneys enough in person to be able to go over the evidence against him. Then Covid hit and he could only see his attorneys over video so he must have been pretty peeved.

After Billy laughed his attorney seemed to be joking with the judge that Billy was upset that he didn't get a Christmas visit with the attorneys. Some weird joke or else Billy really was upset about not seeing his attorneys around Christmas.

Never know with Billy, he has a reputation for complaining if he doesn't like how his attorneys are defending him as mentioned by his attorney in a Court Hearing and in MSM.

The Columbus Dispatch
PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions
Five Years Later: The Rhoden Family Killings

Billy Wagner's attorneys told Pike County Common Pleas Judge Randy Deering earlier this month that their client disagrees with some of the defense strategies and is frustrated by how slow the case has progressed through the courts.

This is how Billy has always been - an ignorant, spoiled, entitled jerk with a mean streak. He has no clue that he has no chance of ever seeing the outside of a prison again.

 

[Betty P]

Thanks for the summary. Facebook links don't work well here for some reason.

Guest defense attorney Terry Ausin (sp) said in regards to seating a jury in Pike County:

The odds are slim to none in my opinion. I think that they have to argue obviously that there's been excessive pretrial publicity and that the jury pool is biased and they need an impartial jury.

BBM

Ironic that it's George4's attorneys who've been responsible for all the pre-trial publicity. Just a coincidence. JMO

I just don't believe that they genuinely think this Case is going to trial between now and then, but I think this is more of a tactic to be able to figure out if there's a plea that makes sense.

BBM

So, they don't think a plea deal of LWOP "makes sense"? Yes, the defense strategy has been painfully obvious - engage in all the BS and pre-trial publicity as possible in order to get a change of venue. Then get an acquittal and turn a murderer loose on an innocent public. JMO

 

[StrangeOne]

Billy laughing:

He won't be laughing when he gets to prison and finds out everyone is a lot meaner than he is.

 

[Cool Cats]

One Court Hearing where Billy's frustration showed is from April 5th 2021.

"Mark Collins says his client, Billy, becomes frustrated at times with the court proceedings and it showed Monday."

From Hearing:

Attorney touches Billy's shoulder and points to the judge to get Billy's attention and get him to look at the judge while the judge is addressing the defense. Then the attorney gestures twice to get Billy to stand up while the judge asks him if he's had sufficient access to his attorneys.

Billy answers "Yah."

His attorney tells him to say "your honor" which he then does. Judge continues to ask if he's happy with his representation.

Billy says "So far. I would say at times your honor at times."

Judge asks if he has any complaints - anything he wishes to say?

Billy answers "Nah, not at the moment."

Billy's attorney then says:

"If I might your honor. Your honor Mr Wagner has some frustrations in the fact that he's been incarcerated for 29 months and he doesn't have a trial date and he would like a trial date and we've talked about that but I think with the help of the Motion Hearings coming and the Daubert Hearing and the 404 B Hearing that he'll see the progress.

NOTICE OF INTENT TO USE OTHER ACTS EVIDENCE PURSUANT TO 404(B)

He understands now that Jake has a trial date but it's something that, um, our frustration - and just is a unique place and unique time with the pandemic - everything of that nature - but he just wants the court to be aware that he would like this to go as fast as possible with the reasonable constraints your honor.

We also had conversations and correspondence that Mr Wagner's a unique personality, a unique individual very intelligent and at times disagrees with some of the trial strategy, and me myself and the team have met with him and he understands the dynamics and the logistics and he's gonna let us know when he's not happy and when he wants to talk to you about some issues judge.

Is that a fair statement Billy?

Billy answers "Yah."

Video of George "Billy" Wagner Motion Hear…4/5/21

George ‘Billy’ Wagner returns to court for Pike County massacre charges

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks for the summary. Facebook links don't work well here for some reason.



BBM

Ironic that it's George4's attorneys who've been responsible for all the pre-trial publicity. Just a coincidence. JMO



BBM

So, they don't think a plea deal of LWOP "makes sense"? Yes, the defense strategy has been painfully obvious - engage in all the BS and pre-trial publicity as possible in order to get a change of venue. Then get an acquittal and turn a murderer loose on an innocent public. JMO

Quote:
"Then get an acquittal and turn a murderer loose on an innocent public."

No chance of acquittal because Jake strongly implicates George in his proffer. The proffer is very clear that George is heavily involved in the homicides. Then you have Angie's proffer telling how she stayed home but the others went out that night with 3 guns and at least 2 silencers. No way for George to get acquitted of the murders.

No proffer, from what has been said by Canepa in court, says George stayed home that night or that George wasn't involved.

Jake does not plead guilty to committing the murders himself, he pleads guilty to committing the murders with his family.

Canepa describing Jake's proffer from Jake's Guilty Plea Hearing:

The information that Jake provided clearly implicated he and each member of his family to include Billy, Angela and George Wagner as being guilty of all the Counts contained in the indictments filed in this matter.

Based on the totality of the information now known by the State including the forthright statements of the defendant we have overwhelming evidence that the defendant and the 3 co-defendants members of his family are in fact responsible for planning and carrying out the homicides of....."

Jake admitted that in the late evening hours of April 21st 2016 to the early morning hours of April 22nd 2016 is when they committed these homicides. We know that they trespassed into each of the 4 residences - that's where the victims were found - with the intent to kill them.

And that they were armed with firearms at least 2 of which had homemade silencers affixed to them when they did so.

We know that they conspired together and planned these homicides in the months that led up to the offenses and that all 4 co-defendants took part in that as well as making various purchases to accomplish their goal.

Goes on to describe the things THEY did........"

We know that the defendant engaged in prior prep activity by acting as part of a criminal enterprise with the members of his immediate and some extended family members, while acting individually or while being aided and abetted by the other members of this quote criminal enterprise. In committing the offenses that I related, murder, burglary and other offenses contained in the indictment.

At this point as noted your honor, the defendant has in essence confessed and apologized for committing these offenses with his family members.

 

[altojack]

At times I wonder if Billy expects "a plea on a plate" so to speak. You know, without any input from him. I can feel my hands flexing, I'd like to give that evil beast a slap right now.
All the wasted time, I blame his team for. Yes, they are good at their jobs from what I've heard but not in this case. Game playing.

 

[Cool Cats]

At times I wonder if Billy expects "a plea on a plate" so to speak. You know, without any input from him. I can feel my hands flexing, I'd like to give that evil beast a slap right now.
All the wasted time, I blame his team for. Yes, they are good at their jobs from what I've heard but not in this case. Game playing.

What will be interesting to see is what comes out about Billy at George's trial. Note that Billy's defense is not saying that "Billy shot nobody."

If Jake testifies that Billy shot some of the victims how can Billy's attorneys get him acquitted of murder in his own trial? They can't. Billy could be arrogant enough to still want a trial but imagine that conversation...err... argument with his attorneys.

 

[altojack]

What will be interesting to see is what comes out about Billy at George's trial. Note that Billy's defense is not saying that "Billy shot nobody."

If Jake testifies that Billy shot some of the victims how can Billy's attorneys get him acquitted of murder in his own trial? They can't. Billy could be arrogant enough to still want a trial but imagine that conversation...err... argument with his attorneys.

I sat here laughing like a mad woman! I'm hearing Jake in my head saying, 'yes he shot someone in that home' 'two in the other home'. Yet <modsnip> Billy still wants a trial, how stupid can you be Billy.

 

[Covert Operative]

At times I wonder if Billy expects "a plea on a plate" so to speak. You know, without any input from him. I can feel my hands flexing, I'd like to give that evil beast a slap right now.
All the wasted time, I blame his team for. Yes, they are good at their jobs from what I've heard but not in this case. Game playing.

Do you remember any evidence that has been said in court or anywhere against BW yet? I keep trying to think of some. We have heard things about G4 and AW and JW. We heard the most about them in the bond hearing and in the statement of facts in court, during the pleas. They never mentioned BW in bond hearing.

The other acts stated BW threatened CRsr with a gun within a week before the before the murders. The guns spoken of in bond hearing were listed as JW's and G4's on the list and G4 bought the Glock. AW did say that the 3 left that night. I wish more had come out about him. Maybe when they start filing motions before trial it may.

There has been some more information that came out about what is claimed JW said about G4, and that night, other than G4 did not kill anyone. JW probably thinks in his mind it will help G4. I do not think JW did BW any favors in his proffer.

 

[altojack]

Do you remember any evidence that has been said in court or anywhere against BW yet? I keep trying to think of some. We have heard things about G4 and AW and JW. We heard the most about them in the bond hearing and in the statement of facts in court, during the pleas. They never mentioned BW in bond hearing.

The other acts stated BW threatened CRsr with a gun within a week before the before the murders. The guns spoken of in bond hearing were listed as JW's and G4's on the list and G4 bought the Glock. AW did say that the 3 left that night. I wish more had come out about him. Maybe when they start filing motions before trial it may.

There has been some more information that came out about what is claimed JW said about G4, and that night, other than G4 did not kill anyone. JW probably thinks in his mind it will help G4. I do not think JW did BW any favors in his proffer.

No I've not heard much about Billy at all. As time moves on there'll be more Motions coming in prior to trial. Need to wait awhile.

 

[Covert Operative]

No I've not heard much about Billy at all. As time moves on there'll be more Motions coming in prior to trial. Need to wait awhile.

Yes, you are right, a lot of information is found out that is not mentioned in court or the media.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

<<<<This is Raize's husband. I want to make sure not to deceive anyone about who is posting.
Raize is recovering but still confined to bed as her legs and arms are very weak from no oxygen and being bedridden for almost 5 months now. She is in intensive physical therapy but as of yet not able to type on the computer. The surgery was a sucess as far as getting more oxygen to her extremities. There is still some work to go. As I am sure you all are aware Raize has quite the temper and when I had to confiscate (so to speak) her laptop to keep her from tiring herself out she has frequently made her displeasure known. I had to promise to read the posts to her. I never understood Raize's fascination with this forum but am beginning to understand: friends. One can never have too many friends.
Over the years in my career I have investigated more than a few homicides on a federal level but have very little experience in the trial side other than being called to testify to evidence that was gathered in the course of the investigation and COC of said evidence. That being said, being retired now and virtually home bound by Raize's health and at loose ends, after reading recent posts to Raize I have become somewhat interested in this case myself. The irony of that should not be lost on anyone as over the years I have asked Raize's opinion on some unclassified information and gotten a very short answer of "not interested". Let me make it clear that being the good husband I am I gave very patient and detailed answers to any questions she asked about this case. (She might not agree with this.)
I would like to venture an opinion on the current subject of shoe print evidence.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this as Raize said I should ask a moderator if I can 1. post on her account and 2. if not, can a husband and wife have separate accounts under different screen names on here.
Sorry I messed up on the tab button.
I will venture the opinion on shoe print evidence as Raize tells me if it is not allowed the moderators will delete the post.
I believe the shoe print evidence will be admissible, but it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution and somewhat of a gift for the defense. The DNA evidence on both the inside and outside of the shoe will be admitted. While outside blood DNA will be irrefutable the inside DNA, I am assuming George Wagner IV's DNA from wearing the shoes, is another matter. To expound on that, his mother claims she bought the shoes for him, he denies he wore them as he did not like them. Inside DNA re: dead skin cells ect, could be argued by the defense to have gotten there by Mr. G Wagner IV having tried them on then discarding them as not to his liking. It could also answer to intent that has been a subject on here also. Given what I assume the relationship between the younger Mr. Wagner and his mother, his mother may have told young Mr. Wagner to take the shoes to make sure they were on the scene to coerce or blackmail the older brother in participating which would leave in doubt his intent to harm any of the victims.
Raize said to write jmo after my opinion so others know it is not fact but opinion.
I am going to begin at the start when the crime was committed in 2016 and try to read forward as I have time.
Thank you all for your time, Raize's husband.

 

[Covert Operative]

<<<<This is Raize's husband. I want to make sure not to deceive anyone about who is posting.
Raize is recovering but still confined to bed as her legs and arms are very weak from no oxygen and being bedridden for almost 5 months now. She is in intensive physical therapy but as of yet not able to type on the computer. The surgery was a sucess as far as getting more oxygen to her extremities. There is still some work to go. As I am sure you all are aware Raize has quite the temper and when I had to confiscate (so to speak) her laptop to keep her from tiring herself out she has frequently made her displeasure known. I had to promise to read the posts to her. I never understood Raize's fascination with this forum but am beginning to understand: friends. One can never have too many friends.
Over the years in my career I have investigated more than a few homicides on a federal level but have very little experience in the trial side other than being called to testify to evidence that was gathered in the course of the investigation and COC of said evidence. That being said, being retired now and virtually home bound by Raize's health and at loose ends, after reading recent posts to Raize I have become somewhat interested in this case myself. The irony of that should not be lost on anyone as over the years I have asked Raize's opinion on some unclassified information and gotten a very short answer of "not interested". Let me make it clear that being the good husband I am I gave very patient and detailed answers to any questions she asked about this case. (She might not agree with this.)
I would like to venture an opinion on the current subject of shoe print evidence.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this as Raize said I should ask a moderator if I can 1. post on her account and 2. if not, can a husband and wife have separate accounts under different screen names on here.
Sorry I messed up on the tab button.
I will venture the opinion on shoe print evidence as Raize tells me if it is not allowed the moderators will delete the post.
I believe the shoe print evidence will be admissible, but it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution and somewhat of a gift for the defense. The DNA evidence on both the inside and outside of the shoe will be admitted. While outside blood DNA will be irrefutable the inside DNA, I am assuming George Wagner IV's DNA from wearing the shoes, is another matter. To expound on that, his mother claims she bought the shoes for him, he denies he wore them as he did not like them. Inside DNA re: dead skin cells ect, could be argued by the defense to have gotten there by Mr. G Wagner IV having tried them on then discarding them as not to his liking. It could also answer to intent that has been a subject on here also. Given what I assume the relationship between the younger Mr. Wagner and his mother, his mother may have told young Mr. Wagner to take the shoes to make sure they were on the scene to coerce or blackmail the older brother in participating which would leave in doubt his intent to harm any of the victims.
Raize said to write jmo after my opinion so others know it is not fact but opinion.
I am going to begin at the start when the crime was committed in 2016 and try to read forward as I have time.
Thank you all for your time, Raize's husband.

They do not have the actual shoes to compare, so probably would not be for DNA reason. They were never recovered. Shoes were bought that are the same kind of shoes AW bought, to compare.
If they had them though, I imagine DNA would be very important as you stated.

It is claimed that JW and AW confirmed that G4 wore the shoes on the night of the homicides and JW confirmed that both he and G4 were in the crime scene where their shoeprints were left behind in dried blood of one of the victims. Before that it was never said anywhere that G4 had on the shoes. It had been implied.

I believe that scene to be CRsr home, where a size 11 shoeprint was found on laminate flooring north of the entryway and in the living room entryway. A 10.5 shoeprint was found on laminate north of the entryway.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Sleuthers
If the state of Ohio doesn’t have a lot more evidence on the Wagners on this crime and other crimes that hasn’t came out yet than Why the guards that accompany them back and forth to jail started carrying machine gun and bulletproof vests????

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Covert Operative I am not sure I have yet figured out the reply tab. Thank you for that piece of information as I had assumed the actual shoes were in evidence and the debate was on who was wearing them that night. As I said I do not have many facts on this case and have not read any actual reports from agencies involved. I will, in the future, try to ascertain facts before venturing an opinion. I intend to start from day one to read as much information and facts as time will allow. Is there a website where reporting agencies on state and local levels (so sorry) submitted any reports made by investigating officers? Being retired I have limited access to federal data at this time.
Thank you for taking the time to reply and pointing out the actual shoes have not yet been recovered.

 

[Covert Operative]

Covert Operative I am not sure I have yet figured out the reply tab. Thank you for that piece of information as I had assumed the actual shoes were in evidence and the debate was on who was wearing them that night. As I said I do not have many facts on this case and have not read any actual reports from agencies involved. I will, in the future, try to ascertain facts before venturing an opinion. I intend to start from day one to read as much information and facts as time will allow. Is there a website where reporting agencies on state and local submitted any reports made by investigating officers? Being retired I have limited access to federal data at this time.
Thank you for taking the time to reply and pointing out the actual shoes have not yet been recovered.

You are welcome. Not any website to my knowledge that has that information. I got the incident report for CRsr crime scene but it had very little information and did not mention any shoes/prints.

 

[Betty P]

<<<<This is Raize's husband. I want to make sure not to deceive anyone about who is posting.
Raize is recovering but still confined to bed as her legs and arms are very weak from no oxygen and being bedridden for almost 5 months now. She is in intensive physical therapy but as of yet not able to type on the computer. The surgery was a sucess as far as getting more oxygen to her extremities. There is still some work to go. As I am sure you all are aware Raize has quite the temper and when I had to confiscate (so to speak) her laptop to keep her from tiring herself out she has frequently made her displeasure known. I had to promise to read the posts to her. I never understood Raize's fascination with this forum but am beginning to understand: friends. One can never have too many friends.
Over the years in my career I have investigated more than a few homicides on a federal level but have very little experience in the trial side other than being called to testify to evidence that was gathered in the course of the investigation and COC of said evidence. That being said, being retired now and virtually home bound by Raize's health and at loose ends, after reading recent posts to Raize I have become somewhat interested in this case myself. The irony of that should not be lost on anyone as over the years I have asked Raize's opinion on some unclassified information and gotten a very short answer of "not interested". Let me make it clear that being the good husband I am I gave very patient and detailed answers to any questions she asked about this case. (She might not agree with this.)
I would like to venture an opinion on the current subject of shoe print evidence.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this as Raize said I should ask a moderator if I can 1. post on her account and 2. if not, can a husband and wife have separate accounts under different screen names on here.
Sorry I messed up on the tab button.
I will venture the opinion on shoe print evidence as Raize tells me if it is not allowed the moderators will delete the post.
I believe the shoe print evidence will be admissible, but it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution and somewhat of a gift for the defense. The DNA evidence on both the inside and outside of the shoe will be admitted. While outside blood DNA will be irrefutable the inside DNA, I am assuming George Wagner IV's DNA from wearing the shoes, is another matter. To expound on that, his mother claims she bought the shoes for him, he denies he wore them as he did not like them. Inside DNA re: dead skin cells ect, could be argued by the defense to have gotten there by Mr. G Wagner IV having tried them on then discarding them as not to his liking. It could also answer to intent that has been a subject on here also. Given what I assume the relationship between the younger Mr. Wagner and his mother, his mother may have told young Mr. Wagner to take the shoes to make sure they were on the scene to coerce or blackmail the older brother in participating which would leave in doubt his intent to harm any of the victims.
Raize said to write jmo after my opinion so others know it is not fact but opinion.
I am going to begin at the start when the crime was committed in 2016 and try to read forward as I have time.
Thank you all for your time, Raize's husband.

Hello Raize's husband! It's so good to hear from you and thanks for the updates. I think you're ok to post on Raize's account. We all knew in advance she was going to have you communicate with us here while she's recovering.

Thanks for your input about the shoeprint evidence and that it will be an uphill battle for the prosecution. Fortunately, they have a lot more evidence, plus the confessions of the younger Wagner son and his mother.

The prosecution has told the public that, upon the younger brother (Jake Wagner's) confession, he provided them with information allowing them to retrieve the weapons and home made silencer used in the murders. The prosecution also has evidence that the older brother (George 4) helped purchase supplies to make the silencer. There's a whole lot more and I hope you can catch up on it.

Give our best wishes to Raize. I'm so glad to hear that she's recovering and doing PT and very glad to hear that the surgery went well. Big hugs to all!

Betty P

ETA: As Covert Operator mentioned above, we haven't been able to access any reports about the crime scenes. There's a strict gag order on the cases of all 4 Wagners. There reports are probably extensive as there were 4 different crime homes, some with multiple scenes inside. Many, many LE and crime scene investigators were on the scene that day and for many days after.

Here's a link to our Media, Timelines, etc. thread for this case. It begins from the week the crimes were committed til now. The latest information posted is on the last page.

OH - 8 Family Members Murdered, Pike Co., Media, Maps & Timeline *NO DISCUSSION*

Here's a link to the Pike County Court web site where you can search for each killer's court case file

https://www.pikecountycpcourt.org/eservices/home.page.2

Their names:

George Wagner III - father
Angela Wagner - mother
George Wagner IV - older son
Edward Jacob Wagner - younger son