GUILTY NY - Ex-President Donald Trump, charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023, Trial 25 Mar 2024 #4

[RANCH]

The prosecution has proposed three possibilities to choose from: that the conspiracy involved violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act; the falsification of other business records; or the violation of local tax laws.

Why is violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act listed if this is a New York State case? JMO.

Don't Miss This One Key Detail In The Trump Trial Judge's Instructions To The Jury

The jury has finally gone to deliberations in the first-ever criminal trial of a former president.

www.huffpost.com

 

[maamager]

I think the best basis for an appeal is not having the jury sequestered during deliberations. I don't know why the judge wouldn't have them sequestered. Is that common practice in NY state?

if i may step in here —

yes it’s not uncommon for new york to not sequester, especially for high profile cases. there are a lot of factors that play into this decision, but one of them i will note now are those jury instructions that seem to be hotly contested (even though they don’t contradict from other instructions in the same scope… but ok). we give so much information and context to jurors for the simple fact that they aren’t craving more to be desired. they can understand how this case colors their verdict.

never say never, but i’m gonna say never for an appeal on this basis. moo

 

[SherryLock]

I think the best basis for an appeal is not having the jury sequestered during deliberations. I don't know why the judge wouldn't have them sequestered. Is that common practice in NY state?

Good question. From my quick internet search, it appears that sequestering juries has become rare because of practicalities like the extra expense and more disruption of jurors' lives. However, I too would expect that the jury would have been sequestered in such a big case, so I don't know either.

 

[Sundog]

I think the best basis for an appeal is not having the jury sequestered during deliberations. I don't know why the judge wouldn't have them sequestered. Is that common practice in NY state?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

ETA - There are many areas for appeal, but I don't think this is one of them. I think that is up to the discretion of the judge in a case.

 

[Izzylizzy]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

The jury needed evidence to corroborate Cohen's testimony and they got it.
That is why the state put Pecker on the stand first and Cohen at the end.
In between they got pieces from other witnesses and were able to give the jury an treasure trove of documents,phone logs, text messages,audio.
The Weisselberg/McConney $420,000 handwritten numbers totaling the amount to reimburse Cohen was a gold mine.

 

[Kaley Smith]

This is why Trump was charged with a Felony.

Trump Convicted: Here Are The Election And Tax Laws He Was Charged With Breaking

Trump has only been charged with falsification of business records, but jurors would also have to find he did it to cover up an underlying crime.

www.forbes.com

Yes. Earlier someone asked how a misdemenour rose to the level of a felony. As I understand it, New York law states that if someone falsifies business records to cover up a crime then the charges can be elevated to a felony. The three crimes Trump was covering up were tax fraud crimes, federal election and state election crimes. The law is the law, and Trump is not above the law.

 

[maamager]

Why is violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act listed if this is a New York State case? JMO.

<modsnip> i explained this in my previous post, but let me make this more concise key points:

1. context: including federal election law violations explains the broader context and potential motives for the alleged state crimes. this is relevant to ny’s case for motivation and relevancy.
2. intent: FECA violations help prove the intent required under new york law for falsifying business records. literally lifted that sentence from law text
3. judicial best practices: providing jurors with all relevant context to understand the potential criminal motivations. this works for both sides.

this is no different from any other best practices or standards so i’m not sure where the disconnect is. he is charged and convicted with 34 counts of falsifying business records that a jury of his peers found general evidence to be true without reasonable doubt to convict. that’s as simple as it gets.

 

[Sundog]

Yes. Earlier someone asked how a misdemenour rose to the level of a felony. As I understand it, New York law states that if someone falsifies business records to cover up a crime then the charges can be elevated to a felony. The three crimes Trump was covering up were tax fraud crimes, federal election and state election crimes. The law is the law, and Trump is not above the law.

Apparently not a federal election crime. So it must have been something else that the prosecution came up with.

 

[Niner]

I shall go ahead & post this update. That way I can shortened it up a bit when sentencing hearing rolls around...

Thursday, May 30th:
*Trial continues (Day 19)-VERDICT REACHED! (Day 2) (@ 9:30am ET) – NY - *Donald John Trump (76/now 77) was indicted (3/30/23), formally arrested, charged & arraigned (4/4/23) with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in the 1st degree & conspiracy in connection with hush money payments to two women [Stephanie Clifford aka adult actor Stormy Daniels & former Playboy model Karen McDougal] before the 2016 presidential election. Plead not guilty. Warrant vacated, released on own recognizance. New York County
New York: Submitting false invoices or checks. All 34 counts against Trump are felony charges (class E) instead of misdemeanors.
Trial began on 4/15/24 with jury selection & ended on 4/19/24. 12 jurors & 6 alternates. [Jurors: 7 men & 5 women/6 Alternates: 5 women & 1 man].
Trial began on 4/22/24 & ended on 5/28/24 with closing arguments. [Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays & Fridays]. Prosecutors rested their case on 5/20/24. Defense began their case on 5/20/24 & ended on 5/21/24. Closing arguments to begin on 5/28/24.
Verdict Watch: Jury deliberations Day 1 (5/29/24) Started at 11:37am to 4:06pm. Total: 4 hours 29 minutes (includes 1 hour for lunch but deliberating). Day 2 (5/30/24) started at 11:17am to 4:30pm. Total Deliberations: ~9 hours 29 minutes.
New York Supreme Court Judge Juan Marchan presiding. Manhattan Attorney General Alvin Bragg. Prosecutors are Susan Hoffinger, Joshua Steinglass & Matthew Colangelo. Defense attorneys Todd Blanche, Emil Bove, Susan Necheles & Gedalia Stern.
Trump is required to attend each day in person — although the judge could grant permission for special absences. Trump has vowed to attend court during the day & travel to campaign events at night.
Investigation & court info from 3/30/23 thru 4/12/24 & Jury Selection Days 1-4 (4/15-4/19/24) & Trial Day 1-19 (4/22-5/30/24) & Jury Deliberations Day 1 (5/29/24) reference post #614 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...s-apr-2023-trial-25-mar-2024-3.711716/page-31
5/30/24 Thursday, Trial Day 19/Verdict Watch Day 2: *Jurors yesterday afternoon requested to rehear parts of witness testimony, including three portions of David Pecker's testimony & a section of Michael Cohen's testimony. The requests include revisiting Pecker's testimony about a phone call with Trump in which he advised the then-candidate to purchase Playboy model Karen McDougal's story to “take it off the market," his testimony about the life rights discussions on McDougal, and Cohen's testimony about a Trump Tower meeting involving him & Pecker where they discussed how the National Enquirer parent company, American Media Inc., could help Trump's campaign.
*At 9:32 a.m., the judge said he received another note from the jury asking for him to re-read his instructions to the jury from page 7 through page 35. The jury has also requested that they be provided with headphones for the laptop.
*Judge Merchan has read the jury instructions the jurors requested which took about 20 or so minutes. Several of the jurors took diligent notes as he read. Now 2 staff members re-read Pecker’s testimony that the jury requested.
*Jurors began deliberating at 11:15am ET & ended at 4:30pm.
*A jury of his peers found the former president guilty of all 34 felony charges of falsifying business records on Thursday evening, determining that he had done so to unlawfully influence the 2016 election. Judge Juan Merchan set Trump’s sentencing hearing on 7/11/24 at 10am ET, after Trump’s attorneys requested a mid- to late-July sentencing & prosecutors didn’t object. The jury deliberated for a total of 9.5 hours over the course of two days before reaching a verdict. Blanche argued for a motion of acquittal, but Merchan denied that request.
For more info see post #621 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...s-apr-2023-trial-25-mar-2024-3.711716/page-32
Sentencing hearing on 7/11/24 @ 10am.

 

[RANCH]

<modsnip> i explained this in my previous post, but let me make this more concise key points:

1. context: including federal election law violations explains the broader context and potential motives for the alleged state crimes. this is relevant to ny’s case for motivation and relevancy.
2. intent: FECA violations help prove the intent required under new york law for falsifying business records. literally lifted that sentence from law text
3. judicial best practices: providing jurors with all relevant context to understand the potential criminal motivations. this works for both sides.

this is no different from any other best practices or standards so i’m not sure where the disconnect is

i think you misunderstood my post. im not talking about the charges. thats clear from my link. jmo.

 

[Sundog]

Why is violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act listed if this is a New York State case? JMO.

Don't Miss This One Key Detail In The Trump Trial Judge's Instructions To The Jury

The jury has finally gone to deliberations in the first-ever criminal trial of a former president.

www.huffpost.com

That will be one of the issues on appeal.

 

[maamager]

That will be one of the issues on appeal.

moo they’ll try it and fail. feds didn’t charge him, state did, and that wasn’t what his charge was. he was proven to falsify business records and that’s a crime.

 

[RANCH]

That will be one of the issues on appeal.

No doubt about that. Hey look my caps came back. JMO.

 

[maamager]

moreover on the sequestration, i want to say that the jury is just a group of people. it sounds stupid, but it’s true. they are going to discuss, possibly argue, and paw their way to some sort of resolution (even if they’re hung — agree to disagree).

they may request to reexamine the evidence they’ve spent weeks taking a granular look at; maybe they’ll do a field trip or ask to see a transcript, etc. these people have proven to be capable of their role to both the defense and prosecution as both sides interview candidates.

while collusion is real, i do not believe that is the case here especially after following so closely.

this case is so huge that we will know very very shortly if one of them was biased or had outside influence. these people will most certainly talk about their experience or hide (what i would do tbh).

moo he was convicted of exactly what he was charged: falsified business records. the motive just bolsters the state’s claim. the jury found sufficient evidence to the claim. bing bang boom

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is closed for a while so the excessive number of Reports can be reviewed and dealt with.

Check back later .. might be a couple of hours or overnight.

 

[Sillybilly]

As you can see, it took me two hours to clean up this thread (bickering, personalizing, lack of links, discussing other members, etc). We try not to be heavy-handed but the nature of this case and the sentiments involved are creating a lot of work for us. We may have to close the discussion periodically throughout the day so our tiny staff can deal with this.

Due to the extensive modding required, this discussion will remain closed until morning so there aren't a ton more violations for whoever is on in the morning.

As it is 2:30 am in my world, I'm heading to bed so you can bet your boots it won't be cranky old me who is on in your morning.

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE: This thread is open. Play nice so it can stay open.

If many of your posts in this thread have been deleted, you are posting wrong. You do not have to respond to every post.

 

[musicaljoke]

I wonder if T thought that this financial scheme would never see the light of day. Or maybe he believed that he could just blame it on his lackeys. Surely he knew it was illegal.

It will be interesting to see if the party continues with their "tough on crime" pitch.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I wonder if T thought that this financial scheme would never see the light of day. Or maybe he believed that he could just blame it on his lackeys. Surely he knew it was illegal.

It will be interesting to see if the party continues with their "tough on crime" pitch.

Trump has never paid attention to rules of any sort apparently. Getting someone to lie so you can avoid military service, not paying workers and contractors, evicting people of color, swindling people with a 'university', taking money raised for charity, fudging numbers for real estate evaluations, etc etc etc - no problem at all for Trump. And if all fails, just declare bankruptcy. His normal is not the normal that most of us have. That is why I see his total incredulity at the conviction as 100% genuine. He has never been held to account for anything in his life, so he can't fathom that it would start now.

I think the party will very much bring the tough on crime talk when it comes to others, particularly POC, but financial crimes won't be discussed except to whine about the witch hunt election interference that their dear leader has suffered.

 

[Leilei]

Trump has never paid attention to rules of any sort apparently. Getting someone to lie so you can avoid military service, not paying workers and contractors, evicting people of color, swindling people with a 'university', taking money raised for charity, fudging numbers for real estate evaluations, etc etc etc - no problem at all for Trump. And if all fails, just declare bankruptcy. His normal is not the normal that most of us have. That is why I see his total incredulity at the conviction as 100% genuine. He has never been held to account for anything in his life, so he can't fathom that it would start now.

I think the party will very much bring the tough on crime talk when it comes to others, particularly POC, but financial crimes won't be discussed except to whine about the witch hunt election interference that their dear leader has suffered.

Funny thing is that if he hadn't decided to run for office, his every move wouldn't have been scrutinized so heavily, and he may not have ended up where he is now - a convicted felon. It's no secret that once you enter that arena you're going to be under a very powerful, very large microscope. Carrying on with his "normal" behavior was a bad decision, but he made that decision. IMO.