MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #6

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The town of Canton is taking steps to audit the police department which is a good start.

But I do want to point out that much of what you are addressing was the responsibility of the state police who not only delayed taking over the investigation from Canton when asked to do so, but also conducted the "interviews", failed to log evidence properly (taillight) and whose lead investigator was close friends with the Alberts.

Proctor, Proctor, Proctor.

Absolutely! MSP is not immune from needing remedial training either. Officer O'Hara alone gave me shivers yesterday. And of course they have <mod note - derogatory name changes aren't allowed> Proctor to deal with.
 
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Absolutely! MSP is not immune from needing remedial training either. Officer O'Hara alone gave me shivers yesterday. And of course they have Proctah Troopah to deal with.

Proctor shouldn't be immune from prison when this case is over.

My understanding is that he's always been considered a good investigator. So it's not training he needs.

It's no wonder he told his friends he hoped Read would commit suicide. And such a shame he didn't find those nudes he was looking for when he illegally searched her phone, violating her constitutional rights. (Thanks again, FBI!)

I can only imagine how many past and future convictions are now in jeopardy thanks to this evil man.
 
If I were a citizen of Canton, I would not have much faith in the CPD to do anything correctly, safely or fairly. These officers need some serious " Remedial Training", from the top on down. The failures are too big to ignore

Beginning with " Let's prepare and secure a crime scene in the snow". Because yes CPD.....it does snow in Canton MA.

Secondly, "Let's interview witnesses separately, without donuts "

Most importantly, " Let's create a log, and document all who are and were present at each scene regarding the crime."

Let us also identify and use properly the accepted receptacle for gathering and securing evidence, while simultaneously logging the same. ( That's a hard one here, folks).

In Bold, for those who need it:
When CPD is 'conflicted out' of a case, it means you jack. Stay out of this crime and investigation. Step away from any of it!


Feel free to add on !
MOO
Maybe could add about not destroying evidence in the process of obtaining it or in attempting to secure it? (As in the matter earlier today IIUC that supposedly the ‘damaged’ rear passenger taillight lens / assembly was further damaged or destroyed being removed or examined?)

And perhaps unambiguous and unequivocal Chain of Custody for each sample? As in the ‘Lucky Charm’ taillight shards that appeared somewhere? (And your fourth point above alludes to this as well. Just figured these terms should also be used.) (And see first point above.) MOO
 
If I were a citizen of Canton, I would not have much faith in the CPD to do anything correctly, safely or fairly. These officers need some serious " Remedial Training", from the top on down. The failures are too big to ignore

Beginning with " Let's prepare and secure a crime scene in the snow". Because yes CPD.....it does snow in Canton MA.

Secondly, "Let's interview witnesses separately, without donuts "

Most importantly, " Let's create a log, and document all who are and were present at each scene regarding the crime."

Let us also identify and use properly the accepted receptacle for gathering and securing evidence, while simultaneously logging the same. ( That's a hard one here, folks).

In Bold, for those who need it:
When CPD is 'conflicted out' of a case, it means you jack. Stay out of this crime and investigation. Step away from any of it!


Feel free to add on !
MOO
I think one of the more jaw-dropping moments of the trial was when one of the CPD officers said he didn't know how to use evidence tape.

And this wasn't some rookie, it was a veteran with decades of experience and a couple of promotions under his belt. I believe he was a detective or a detective sergeant.

I'm still not sure if he was just trying to be difficult while under cross-examination or if he was truly serious. Either way, he made himself look extremely foolish on the stand.
 
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The FBI documents are not in evidence because they were ruled off limits by the Judge. The FBI grand jury still is not closed. However, the defense can use the material provided by the FBI in cross examining witnesses, and they have multiple times.

If the FBI used an outside expert, that expert will likely be called by the defense. If they used an FBI employee, that individual likely will not be called. However, the defense has three biomechanical experts who will testify to the same thing.

I can't tell if the state has any expert that can demonstrate their theory of what happened. We'll see though. Dying to hear their thoughts on all those puncture tears to his shirts.
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I look forward to reading the document(s) if and when they become available to the public. I would like to make up my own mind rather than be told what to think by social media and defense lawyers and the smoke and mirrors.
 
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So evening analysts on CourtTV are a bit more to my liking. They just mentioned that every time they think the CW is coming up with some decent evidence, it seems to be tainted and flawed. OH HECK YEAH!

Also mentioned that it is common when people are hit by cars that they are knocked out of their shoes...BUT if that is the case, why is there blood on the shoe found near the curb? If he was hit and knocked out of his shoe, the blood would go with him not stay there on the shoe.
 
So evening analysts on CourtTV are a bit more to my liking. They just mentioned that every time they think the CW is coming up with some decent evidence, it seems to be tainted and flawed. OH HECK YEAH!

Also mentioned that it is common when people are hit by cars that they are knocked out of their shoes...BUT if that is the case, why is there blood on the shoe found near the curb? If he was hit and knocked out of his shoe, the blood would go with him not stay there on the shoe.
RBBM

That is an excellent observation IMO

This and the 'just some drops' of blood at the scene seem to suggest, at least to me, that much of the blood loss occurred elsewhere, and not on the lawn.
 
Also mentioned that it is common when people are hit by cars that they are knocked out of their shoes...BUT if that is the case, why is there blood on the shoe found near the curb? If he was hit and knocked out of his shoe, the blood would go with him not stay there on the shoe.

Keep in mind of all people, cops know if a pedestrian is hit hard enough, they are sometimes knocked out of their shoes.

So it could have been an added detail to the scene, along with the cocktail glass John may have walked into the house with.
 
It will be very interesting to see how the CW explains this blood evidence, for sure.

I don't think they will. There's just no way to explain it that will make any sense. I just don't see how they can address most of what they want the jury believe.

If there was a different judge, I'd actually expect a directed verdict at the end of the trial. But this judge, like Lally, appears to have her marching orders.
 
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I believe that the prosecution has put forth the evidence that they have. At the end Karen will be found not guilty. All that will be left is the O'Keefe family who will forever live with not only the loss of their family member but without justice for the person who killed him. I believe that Karen killed him because she was driving impaired. She'll walk on all charges due to the poorly run investigation.
I predict that Karen writes a book.
 
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I believe that the prosecution has put forth the evidence that they have. At the end Karen will be found not guilty. All that will be left is the O'Keefe family who will forever live with not only the loss of their family member but without justice for the person who killed him. I believe that Karen killed him because she was driving impaired. She'll walk on all charges due to the poorly run investigation.
I predict that Karen writes a book.

So I'm clear, the reason you think she's guilty is because she was drunk?

It's not a logic question (although it could be the first one on a Logic 101 test) but I'm curious as to what evidence beyond the fact that she was probably drunk sways you. Because as our friends "the witnesses" have proven, people drive drunk all the time and don't kill people. With their cars, I mean.
 
So I'm clear, the reason you think she's guilty is because she was drunk?

It's not a logic question (although it could be the first one on a Logic 101 test) but I'm curious as to what evidence beyond the fact that she was probably drunk sways you. Because as our friends "the witnesses" have proven, people drive drunk all the time and don't , people. With their cars, I mean.
Is there some way, please, that JO's death can be investigated, looking at the deletions/other things that say hiding/covering up and interfering in the original investigation ? Well, there really wasn't one, just an automatic charge for KR and then her defending it, based on a tip, which then exposed Alberts clan along with Proctor and Higgins to be on the stand. You'd think a case would be made via KR when and if found not guilty or however it would be said.
Wonder if same things could be used against Alberts, McCabes and the rest. Maybe his family?

Don't know exact charge against Proctor himself or if before all this or during. I mean the exact reason.
 
I don't think they will. There's just no way to explain it that will make any sense. I just don't see how they can address most of what they want the jury believe.

If there was a different judge, I'd actually expect a directed verdict at the end of the trial. But this judge, like Lally, appears to have her marching orders.
Wow, I had not considered that!

I mean, closing arguments, you normally try to tie all your points together that prove the defendant is guilty. So he just glosses over the lack of blood at the scene and the blood dripping down the shirt and on the shoe, and instead just focuses on the pieces of tail light and how drunk KR was? Juries are just not that dumb.
 
I think you've made a thoughtful post, so let me add my thoughts. I've snipped out a couple of passages:

Karen's statements at the scene were excited utterances and therefore they are evidence.

I realize most people posting actively here believe the trial is a sham, based on a conspiracy by dozens of people.
I've said previously that I'm not onboard with the full conspiracy defense.

But I don't think you need to be a believer in a wide-ranging conspiracy to be suspicious of eyewitness testimony. There are reams of evidence about how unreliable it can be. I won't go into all that, but I think that's especially true in this case where there is absolutely no contemporaneous documentary evidence that Karen said "I hit him". The dashcam didn't record her saying it even though she was said to be yelling it. And no one on scene wrote down her supposed admission of guilt or put it in any of their reports.

In every case, Karen's statement wasn't documented until days, months or even years later.

In her excited utterances at the scene and in the ambulance, Karen admitted involvement in differing ways to first responders and friends. Many first responders testified to what they heard. The statements varied in the degree of self-incrimination, but the weaker admissions of possible culpability support the more direct ones heard by others.
I disagree with this. The wide variation between what people say they heard makes their testimony less reliable not more. This was a chaotic scene. Lots was happening simultaneously. It was very cold and a steady snow was falling. Karen was screaming and crying. The EMTs were focused on saving John's life. How can anyone be so certain of what they heard? Especially since of the 15 or so at the scene who testified, only four heard her say "I hit him." That's a pretty low percentage.


If all the first responders were in on a conspiracy or coached on what to say, they would all have tesitified they heard direct admissions of "I hit him."
Again, I don't think people are necessarily lying, per se. But memory is fragile and what we think we remember can morph over time.

Let's take Jen McCabe as an example. Lots of people think she's straight out lying that she heard Karen yell "I hit him". I don't necessarily agree. It's likely that in her mind she 100% believes that Karen said it. However, that's not what she told investigators in the days following the murder. Nor is it what she testified to in the state grand jury that was held in the fall of 2022. It wasn't until the federal grand jury in the summer of 2023, that she first stated on the record that Karen said "I hit him".

Keep in mind that just a few months before that, in April 2023 was the first time that the defense publicized Jen's alleged "hos long to die in the cold" 2:27 AM google search. That was around the time that Turtleboy made her infamous and she and her family started getting harassed by the FKR folks. Do you think it's possible that this harassment could have affected what she recalled? There's a phenomenon called memory conformity, where you start remembering another person's experiences as your own. This could have easily been what happened to Jen in that year since John was killed.

(As an aside, I'll add that I'm not convinced that Jen made that search at 2:27. I'm waiting for the expert testimony to form a conclusion.)

IMO, when you put all this together, the evidence that Karen made this statement is just not sufficient for a guilty verdict.
 
RBBM

That is an excellent observation IMO

This and the 'just some drops' of blood at the scene seem to suggest, at least to me, that much of the blood loss occurred elsewhere, and not on the lawn.

I know that the hospital didn't provide this information, but it would be interesting to know just how much blood JO lost. Because in my estimation, there just wasn't enough blood in that snow when looking at that head injury.
 

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The reconstructionists the FBI hired will testify when the defense puts on their case. You may not see any documents until the FBI closes their investigation.

The Defense Experts

Chis Van Ee, PhD. Expert in Biomedical and Mechanical Engineering

Daniel Wolfe, PhD. ARCCA, Inc.

Andrew Rentschler, PhD. ARCCA, Inc.

Scott Kline, BSME, ARCCA, Inc.

 
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