MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #6

[GoBuckeyes]

And, obviously the clothes were never properly logged in to any professional/legally accepted evidence log. The Canton PD didn't log anything in properly. Surely the lead investigator has not either...as far as we know. Things just magically appear there, don't they? Why, personal vehicles become 'Command Centers' in MA, from what I heard yesterday.

And Cellebrite seems to work everywhere but there! moo

 

[HarmonyE.]

I believe the FBI used 3 experts, and they each concluded that her SUV did not hit JO.

I'm not sure about that. One would probably be enough for their purposes. With that said, the defense has three experts on their list and I'm not sure if any or all were used by the FBI also.

These won't be "accident reconstructionists" by the way. They're biomechanical experts who will be working off the prosecution theory using body mechanics and physics to show how the prosecution is wrong. The defense's position is of course that there was no accident, so they won't be reconstructing one to help out the prosecution.

Which brings us to the question as to how the prosecution plans on presenting an accident theory that addresses all of John's injuries. I've not yet seen a single theory that works. If anyone can explain one, I'll all ears. Just expect to have holes poked if you don't cover his arm and his bruised fists. And his lack of any other bodily injuries below his neck.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

If I were a citizen of Canton, I would not have much faith in the CPD to do anything correctly, safely or fairly. These officers need some serious " Remedial Training", from the top on down. The failures are too big to ignore

Beginning with " Let's prepare and secure a crime scene in the snow". Because yes CPD.....it does snow in Canton MA.

Secondly, "Let's interview witnesses separately, without donuts "

Most importantly, " Let's create a log, and document all who are and were present at each scene regarding the crime."

Let us also identify and use properly the accepted receptacle for gathering and securing evidence, while simultaneously logging the same. ( That's a hard one here, folks).

In Bold, for those who need it:
When CPD is 'conflicted out' of a case, it means you jack. Stay out of this crime and investigation. Step away from any of it!

Feel free to add on !
MOO

Adding, maybe prosecution could use a bit of remedial training, too. (Thinking of: "Who if anyone was driving the ambulance...")

 

[GoBuckeyes]

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I believe that the prosecution has put forth the evidence that they have. At the end Karen will be found not guilty. All that will be left is the O'Keefe family who will forever live with not only the loss of their family member but without justice for the person who killed him. I believe that Karen killed him because she was driving impaired. She'll walk on all charges due to the poorly run investigation.
I predict that Karen writes a book.

You believe she killed him because she was driving impaired? But by that logic, aren't there many more potential killers than just KR?

 

[Aquarian]

I thought the CW was going with "he hit the hydrant", but unfortunately for them, all first responders and witnesses place him near the flagpole and not near the hydrant. See Google maps; they're a good distance away from each other.

They can still try; maybe claim he bounced off the hydrant and landed near the flagpole, but I don't think that dog is gonna hunt for the jury.

But speaking of dogs, I can see the jury believing a dog caused all those punctures in his sweatshirt. They've always looked like claw marks to me and as the canine DNA expert testified claws don't tend to transfer DNA.....

I checked out Google and yes, it’s quite a few feet away. Really hard for me to address when looking at snow. Still waiting for all the evidence to determine my final thoughts on things.

 

[KSwizzle]

Proctor won’t be called by the CW and that will be the biggest indictment against them imo

 

[HarmonyE.]

Proctor won’t be called by the CW and that will be the biggest indictment against them imo

It's insane.
But will he talk when the defense calls him?
I'm guessing not, because one of the defense attorneys said they'll only need 4 (presumably full) days after the prosecution rests. Proctor is a full week on his own.
Can't say I've ever seen a criminal case where the lead investigator decides to take the 5th.

 

[housewife]

There's blood on the back of his sweatshirt, sort of watered down looking (for lack of a better term) in several areas. But when they take close up shots of the puncture holes on the arm of his sweatshirt, there's no blood at all. Nothing.

Wounds after death don't bleed, but they can ooze. Did the dog attack him after OJO was already dead?
Maybe the dog got out and started smelling OJO's body on the lawn and attacked him like any other stranger he would see.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Wounds after death don't bleed, but they can ooze. Did the dog attack him after OJO was already dead?
Maybe the dog got out and started smelling OJO's body on the lawn and attacked him like any other stranger he would see.

If that had been possible, I'm sure Brian Albert wouldn't have testified Chloe only went to the fenced back yard briefly and was quickly returned to the house.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Could blood have gone through what little bit of snow was under him, and into the soil/ground? Not sure how that works


The blood, assuming it's fresh and warm, could melt through the snow where it lands. But it takes a fair amount to do that. Blood spray, say from a gunshot wound or bad enough cuts on an arm, would cool quickly to ambient temperature and stay on top of the snow, but be covered with fresh snowfall.
Small drops, however, would probably penetrate the snow deep enough to be harder to see and would be pretty hard to spot at night. I would normally presume the crime scene people used a UV light, but in this case who knows?

And before anyone worries about how I know this, I'm a hunter in MI. Blood on snow is a normal occurrence. Sometimes, it's not even mine.

But since the ground was frozen in January, it might melt the snow but it should still have been visible if it pooled on top of the soil. moo

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It's insane.
But will he talk when the defense calls him?
I'm guessing not, because one of the defense attorneys said they'll only need 4 (presumably full) days after the prosecution rests. Proctor is a full week on his own.
Can't say I've ever seen a criminal case where the lead investigator decides to take the 5th.

Is he on the defense's witness list?

 

[Slick762]

Could blood have gone through what little bit of snow was under him, and into the soil/ground? Not sure how that works

But since the ground was frozen in January, it might melt the snow but it should still have been visible if it pooled on top of the soil. moo

Small amounts of blood would show on the top of the snow, until/unless fresh snow covers it. Larger amounts of blood, enough to pool, should melt through, at least partially, leaving melted spots. And could still be, depending on circumstances, easy to spot with a UV light.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Is he on the defense's witness list?

Proctor is on the defense list and I have no doubt they'll call him. But given the defense's proposed timing, I think they think he'll take the 5th.

 

[Slick762]

It's insane.
But will he talk when the defense calls him?
I'm guessing not, because one of the defense attorneys said they'll only need 4 (presumably full) days after the prosecution rests. Proctor is a full week on his own.
Can't say I've ever seen a criminal case where the lead investigator decides to take the 5th.

If the lead investigator has to be subpoenaed by the defense, and/or takes the 5th, I'm voting not guilty, no matter what else I've seen. If the state can't trust them enough to use them as a witness, as a juror I wouldn't trust what they did as investigator.

 

[Derph]

I'm fully confident we could pull together 10 people from this website who could have investigated this better than the Canton PD did!

 

[PenelopeJude]

Did anyone watch the show “Jury Duty” on Amazon? This case gets more crazy by the day. I feel like we are all on that show.

 

[HarmonyE.]

If the lead investigator has to be subpoenaed by the defense, and/or takes the 5th, I'm voting not guilty, no matter what else I've seen. If the state can't trust them enough to use them as a witness, as a juror I wouldn't trust what they did as investigator

And the defense has laid the groundwork that all investigative roads lead to Proctor Trooper.

Which is why they probably figure they only need 4 days to put on her defense.

 

[ch_13]

If the lead investigator has to be subpoenaed by the defense, and/or takes the 5th, I'm voting not guilty, no matter what else I've seen. If the state can't trust them enough to use them as a witness, as a juror I wouldn't trust what they did as investigator.

If it's really true that Proctor intends to take the Fifth, then the DA needs to concede and end the trial. It's a waste of everyone's time and money, and to force the O'Keefes to sit in court every day on a lost cause just adds to their suffering.

And I'd have to think that even if Lally somehow miraculously secures a conviction, it wouldn't stand up under appeal. How can Karen Read confront her accuser when the person who spearheaded the investigation refuses to answer any questions about what he did?

 

[HarmonyE.]

And I'd have to think that even if Lally somehow miraculously secures a conviction, it wouldn't stand up under appeal. How can Karen Read confront her accuser when the person who spearheaded the investigation refuses to answer any questions about what he did?

It's probably best for Karen if he does take the 5th. But I won't lie. I'd pay good money to watch Jackson eviscerate that man on the stand.

 

[LvsAMystry]

Which means that in the last two weeks we'll have only had 3 1/2 days of court. This snail's pace is exasperating to me and I'm just an observer. I can't imagine how the jury feels.

All these interruptions to thought process and cohesiveness of testimony, although admittedly what cohesiveness I guess? Just lallygagging along.