MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #6

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k-mac said:
To quote Carl Sagan "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”
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Except, luminol and/or other forensic science techniques can absolutely prove or disprove blood being on a piece of glass, such as would occur if, as OP suggests, that very glass caused linear lacerations, puncture wounds, etc. to JO's right arm. imoo
 
arielilane said:
@BienickWCVB

Here's Read's SUV leaving O'Keefe's home before the snowstorm.

View attachment 508131

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798437724501991564


Here's Read's SUV leaving O'Keefe's house at about 5am. Bukhenik says it came close to O'Keefe's parked vehicle but did not damage it. He says no taillight pieces are visible on the ground.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798438314120487083
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Did they use a leaf blower there, too, to look for evidence of what might have been under the snow?
 
GoBuckeyes said:
Except, luminol and/or other forensic science techniques can absolutely prove or disprove blood being on a piece of glass, such as would occur if, as OP suggests, that very glass caused linear lacerations, puncture wounds, etc. to JO's right arm. imoo
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Yes BUT only on crime shows is there always evidence that is usable.
In the real world quite often evidence is not upstanding for varying reasons.

There is plenty of evidence incriminating Karen that is dismissed by the pro Karen crowd.
It's planted!!! the procedure's faulty!! collection wasn't done correctly!! Just because she said it doesn't mean she meant it!!

Can't have it both ways.

moo
 
MyJoey said:
She has a broken tail light and is being accused of hitting John…. I don’t think her tolerance is that high. Really I don’t imagine it is high, she isn’t that big and she has health issues. I love alcohol, wish mine was higher. I would have never been up at 5am after that many drinks, well maybe to grab the advil.
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But doesn't that prove her tolerance is higher than most? She was up at 5am after all...
 
k-mac said:
Yes BUT only on crime shows is there always evidence that is usable.
In the real world quite often evidence is not upstanding for varying reasons.

There is plenty of evidence incriminating Karen that is dismissed by the pro Karen crowd.
It's planted!!! the procedure's faulty!! collection wasn't done correctly!! Just because she said it doesn't mean she meant it!!

Can't have it both ways.

moo
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I don't need it both ways. Evidence was collected the wrong ways, in red solo cups and stop and shop bags. Procedures were broken at every turn (no pun intended). The evidence is compromised. I don't know if she hit him with her car or not. I do know that no one should be convicted on compromised procedures or evidence.
 
GoBuckeyes said:
I don't need it both ways. Evidence was collected the wrong ways, in red solo cups and stop and shop bags. Procedures were broken at every turn (no pun intended). The evidence is compromised. I don't know if she hit him with her car or not. I do know that no one should be convicted on compromised procedures or evidence.
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There is plenty of evidence and it is still coming.
Can't see her getting off on a technicality here or there on real evidence.
Circumstancial evidence matters equally.
The wave of totality is what will convict her.


We all know how ridiculous a whole trial was lost on if the glove don't fit!!!

There was a voluminous load of evidence against OJ.
HOPEFULLY lessons were learned from that fiasco.
 
k-mac said:
I don't think she went to bed at all that night.
Too busy freaking the f out.

moo
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Maybe, maybe not. Red solo cups. Leaf blower. Stop and shop bags. Rehomed dog. Torn up and replaced basement concrete. Taillight pieces and glass found weeks apart. (some pieces don't fit), LEAD investigator has lawyered up and consulted his lawyer during this trial. Web searches by a prosecution witness that are all kinds of hinky. IMOO these things and more lead to insurmountable reasonable doubt.


With that, I'll agree to disagree. You and one Carl Sagan won't change my opinion, and I'm not trying to change yours. You have every right to it. AMOO JMOO
 
ch_13 said:
Forget that it's Karen Read for a second.

The lead investigator in a murder trial is refusing to take the stand because the actions he performed during the investigation may incriminate him in a federal probe of police corruption.

The prosecution is trying to hide him by making the jury think that someone else was responsible for the investigation that he really did. They want to cover up his actions so that the defense can't question him about any wrongdoing he committed.

And the judge is allowing this to happen, with the jury no wiser to the bait-and-switch.

That's not a fair trial and I don't think that's how a criminal trial should be conducted in the United States. I would say that no matter who the defendant was, whether it was Karen Read, Alex Murdaugh, Chad Daybell, or whomever.
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Yes, this!!!!
 
ch_13 said:
Forget that it's Karen Read for a second.

The lead investigator in a murder trial is refusing to take the stand because the actions he performed during the investigation may incriminate him in a federal probe of police corruption.

The prosecution is trying to hide him by making the jury think that someone else was responsible for the investigation that he really did. They want to cover up his actions so that the defense can't question him about any wrongdoing he committed.

And the judge is allowing this to happen, with the jury no wiser to the bait-and-switch.

That's not a fair trial and I don't think that's how a criminal trial should be conducted in the United States. I would say that no matter who the defendant was, whether it was Karen Read, Alex Murdaugh, Chad Daybell, or whomever.
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bbm
so are you saying there is another conspiracy separate to the other conspiracy?
and who is they?
the original conspiracist? or the new ones?

:oops: I am totally lost. Can you expand?
 
keek said:
Now THAT would be NO fun, it IS a lifestyle for lots, everything social revolves around going out and meeting up at the 'local' place as we saw. Where everybody knows your naaaammme. Not all people who fall into that category would be alcoholics, BUT we see that Higgins was the posterboy for functioning alcoholic like so many, till 'something happens' healthwise or legally, like now. It really IS part of a lifestyle. I know when I lived closer/next town etc long ago, going out to the nice and local intown 'bars' was a thing for sure and run into the people you know and all that, catch up, socialize and so on. AS you see there. Suburban life if you 'are kind of living the single life or kids all set/grown and a social person.
What really touched me about John was that as he left McCarthy's, his thoughtful goodbye to the guy they were hanging out with laughing etc, hand on him, and then the handshake to another. He def had care and love for people in his spirit.
Oh, and when he was seen walking into the Waterfall, his big happy greeting to the seated individual, as he was called by Yuri. I SAY IT WAS HIGGINS, looking up surprised.
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Excellent post about that type of heavy drinking becoming normal among folks of a social circle, and especially the part about "until something happens". I lived it for many years, but it will catch up to you. And as you see with this trial, something did happen.

Also noticed the same in the videos: As JOK was leaving the first bar, how he graciously said his good-byes and shook hands. Just from his actions inside of the bar he did seem like a real gentleman. Quiet and anassuming, happy to be out and about with friends.

JMO
 
k-mac said:
bbm
so are you saying there is another conspiracy separate to the other conspiracy?
and who is they?
the original conspiracist? or the new ones?

:oops: I am totally lost. Can you expand?
Click to expand...

I said nothing about a conspiracy. Please don't put words in my mouth.

My post was related to the CBS News article that was posted earlier in this thread. I was talking about what would happen if the lead investigator in a murder case doesn't testify and takes the Fifth for crimes they committed while investigating that case.

As I stated in my post, I was speaking in general terms, not specifically about Read's case.
 
ch_13 said:
I said nothing about a conspiracy. Please don't put words in my mouth.

My post was related to the CBS News article that was posted earlier in this thread. I was talking about what would happen if the lead investigator in a murder case doesn't testify and takes the Fifth for crimes they committed while investigating that case.

As I stated in my post, I was speaking in general terms, not specifically about Read's case.
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Thanks for clearing that up.
It read to me like you were implying that.
Appreciate that it is not the case!
 
Elliot_Alderson said:
What is KR's normal alcohol consumption like? Tolerance levels?
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Just some back of the napkin calculations on what KR's BAC could have been at time of incident:​

BAC is reduced at a rate of 0.015 per hour. ​

Source: Alcohol Metabolism

Assume that KR's last drink was at 12 midnight.​

She had a BAC of 0.093 at 9AM when tested at the hospital. See source below.​

Multiply the 9 hours between 12 midnight and 9 AM by the 0.015 hourly reduction rate. The result is 0.135.​

Add this 0.135 reduction to the 0.093 when tested and the result is 0.228.​

This 0.228 is POSSIBLY what her BAC could have been at midnight of incident.​

Again, this is just an estimate of what her BAC could have been at midnight and assumes that she did not drink at anytime after the incident at 34 Fairview and and does not take into account factors such as food eaten before she was tested at 9 AM at the hopsital, her size, weight, etc. Please see the source for BAC reduction rate.

And MOO
_______________________________________________________________________

Source of KR's BAC at hospital when tested:

www.cbsnews.com

What was Karen Read's blood alcohol level on the night John O'Keefe died? Experts testify at trial

The prosecutor in the Karen Read murder trial focused on Read's blood alcohol level the night John O'Keefe died.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

Karen Read's blood alcohol level ​

Justin Rice, who was an emergency room doctor at Good Samaritan Hospital in Brockton when O'Keefe died, took the stand on Tuesday.
Rice treated Read the morning of January 29, 2022.
She was brought to the hospital just before 8 a.m. under a "Section 12" order. Rice described it as an "involuntarily detention," usually over a mental health concern.
Rice said bloodwork was performed on Read. She had a blood alcohol content (BAC) of 93 milligrams per deciliter, or 0.093%. The legal BAC limit in Massachusetts for driving is 0.08%.
 
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