Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

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steeltowngirl said:
That’s why he made the phone call to LT. My question is how did he draw his sensational conclusions linking the murders to Odinism if he didn’t already have an expert?
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Consulting an expert for research purposes and hiring someone to appear in court as an expert witness would be two entirely different things. Maybe the prior expert doesn’t do court appearances or had scheduling issues. Unless they say, we don’t know.
 
grannygates said:
Consulting an expert for research purposes and hiring someone to appear in court as an expert witness would be two entirely different things. Maybe the prior expert doesn’t do court appearances or had scheduling issues. Unless they say, we don’t know.
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No. His voicemail says he’s looking for an opinion and guidance. He wanted to show her crime scene photos and see if it looks like runes. No mention of appearing as a court expert.
 
steeltowngirl said:
No. His voicemail says he’s looking for an opinion and guidance. He wanted to show her crime scene photos and see if it looks like runes. No mention of appearing as a court expert.
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Okay so he’s looking for opinion and guidance. Still failing to see how contacting experts would ever be a bad thing for either side. I fully expect prosecution to be contacting experts as well.
 
grannygates said:
Okay so he’s looking for opinion and guidance. Still failing to see how contacting experts would ever a bad thing for either side. I fully expect prosecution to be contacting experts as well.
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Not a bad thing. In fact a great thing - and it should have been done prior to making allegations in the FM pointing to Odinism.

Click didn’t blame Odinism or say the runes were made by them. And LT won’t either.
 
steeltowngirl said:
Not a bad thing. In fact a great thing - and it should have been done prior to making allegations in the FM pointing to Odinism.

Click didn’t blame Odinism or say the runes were made by them. And LT won’t either.
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Do you know as a fact that the FM was created without consulting any outside source ?

(ETA: added, wondering if this is fact or opinion)
 
grannygates said:
Do you know that the FM was created without consulting any outside source ?
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Do you know that it was? Point being - he’s cold calling to Troth to find consultation. If he had experts agreeing with him on the FM, he had plenty of room in the multiple FM documents to note that he did and cite them, if they were credible.

Didn’t happen. IMO he used social media rumors and misconstrued Click’s ietter to suit his own narrative. Click came back to assert.

Baldwin points to Odinists as the murderers.
There’s no going back now.
 
steeltowngirl said:
Do you know that it was? Point being - he’s cold calling to Troth to find consultation. If he had experts agreeing with him on the FM, he had plenty of room in the multiple FM documents to note that he did and cite them, if they were credible.

Didn’t happen. IMO he used social media rumors and misconstrued Click’s ietter to suit his own narrative. Click came back to assert.

Baldwin points to Odinists as the murderers.
There’s no going back now.
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<modsnip>

And the FM names suspects not faceless “odonists”. The media is using this “odinists” to sensationalize and make it sound like an outrageous conspiracy theory. If it was reworded to be simply “other possible suspects” no one would bat an eye but the media wants to sell a crazy story.
 
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sunshineray said:
Listen to it, the phone message. I can't believe he'd actually want to have it leaked with him sounding so maladroit? JMO
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You know, maybe it's his way of accounting for the funds the defense solicited. I wonder if calling all these potential witnesses are billable hours? Also wonder if the hours working on finding expert witnesses are billed to the state and from the fund money. I really want to see an accounting of state funds for this defense, did the judge reimburse the defense for their witnesses after they corrected the invoices?

I suspect that is the reason for the long message left on voicemail. IMO Let the public hear is working on expert witnesses. I wonder how detail the MS can get, wonder if they can get full accounting of the defense.
 
AugustWest said:
You disagree that a Franks motion doesn't need to be filed? I guess you will have to take that up with the Indiana legislature, because they specify motions not made in hearing or trial must be filed.

_Rule 7. Pleadings allowed -- Form of motion
...

(B) Motions and other papers. Unless made during a hearing or trial, or otherwise ordered by the court, an application to the court for an order shall be made by written motion. The motion shall state the grounds therefor and the relief or order sought. The requirement of notice is satisfied by service of the motion."

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I'm not the poster you were referring to, however if I can politely jump in. For me it's not a question that a Franks motion needs to be filed. It is the content of the Franks. I respect your contribution and learn much from your posts.

The other thing is I reread the Franks, then listen to AB's voicemail and my head started spinning like Linda Blair. It's just so obvious to me. IMO
 
steeltowngirl said:
No. His voicemail says he’s looking for an opinion and guidance. He wanted to show her crime scene photos and see if it looks like runes. No mention of appearing as a court expert.
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Just like an in-depth description of the CS of Abby & Libby without talking to the coroner first. Hopefully they've gotten to that by now.

jmo
 

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ...
This thread used to be about Libby and Abby and justice. Then the scoundrel defense attys turned it into a circus and about everything BUT justice for Libby and Abby and also justice for RA.
I used to fall pretty much 50/50 on RA’s guilt or innocence, but his attys have convinced me he is undoubtably guilty. RA himself has convinced me of the same. Why can’t we have a trial?!
All my opinion, the same opinion, I had last time.
 
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grannygates said:
Did they state that they matched the exact knife used in the crime to one recovered at his home?
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I didn't say 'exact' knife, but according to the SW they located quite a few of knives from RA's home. The State has kept their information under wraps according to the Court ordered gag, so I expect we won't hear a lot about all of their evidence until trial.

I can also imagine a killer getting rid of the exact knife over the years he was free and roaming about.

JMO
 
Willow Knight said:
I'm not the poster you were referring to, however if I can politely jump in. For me it's not a question that a Franks motion needs to be filed. It is the content of the Franks. I respect your contribution and learn much from your posts.

The other thing is I reread the Franks, then listen to AB's voicemail and my head started spinning like Linda Blair. It's just so obvious to me. IMO
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You absolutely can jump in @Willow Knight! :)

Normally when I contribute to the thread, it is on an evidentiary or other legal issue. I will not argue about any factual background in this case. But in order for the judge to make rulings on evidentiary issues (like suppression of a search warrant as in a Franks), you simply have to include a contextual background to make your point.

Would I have included all that was in the first Franks? Probably not, but I also don't have the benefit of all the information the defense has. I would (and have) defended choices the prosecution has made when the answer to a legal issue is obvious to me; it isn't about rooting for defense or prosecution for me. I don't care about RA one bit, and if he is guilty, I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison.

To me, @grannygates just hit the nail on the head with their last post. Sensationalism is driving the narrative in this case. There is a ton of overhyped garbage on social media and true crime podcasts that influence opinion pretrial. It's becoming a huge problem in the legal world, because finding an impartial jury is becoming near impossible. If you substitute the word "Odinist" with "possible suspects," this is just a SODDI case that few would raise a fuss over.
 
girlhasnoname said:
I didn't say 'exact' knife, but according to the SW they located quite a few of knives from RA's home. The State has kept their information under wraps according to the Court ordered gag, so I expect we won't hear a lot about all of their evidence until trial.

I can also imagine a killer getting rid of the exact knife over the years he was free and roaming about.

JMO
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Didn't RA admit to shooting them?
 
FrostedGlass said:
Didn't RA admit to shooting them?
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I think it's been repeated RA said that in some of his confessions, but I believe he intentionally said shooting them when he played his nervous break routine from April 3 - June 15th running around confessing to everybody, eating pooh, not eating, not sleeping. He had to act as disturbed as possible to take the attention off of his freely given confessions to his wife and mother.

I know it sounds out there, but according to even the D, RA had been adjusting as well as one can and had been friendly, cooperative and affable during their visits.

He makes that admission to his wife and mother and immediately goes off the rails. I believe it was damage control.

JMO
 
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