Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[sunshineray]

It wouldn't be because (5) of the protective order makes an exception.

"5. That the discovery material may be viewed only by parties, counsel and counsel's investigators and experts."

Expert witnesses are exempted.

Is she an expert...on runes?

 

[sunshineray]

I have been following this case solely within mainstream media. I hadn’t gone into detail to read the publicly available court docs, transcripts etc and the hearings not being audio or video makes it less easy for me follow along.

Last night I went over the Frank’s motion. Now I haven’t gone into detail to try to qualify any of the information so I have no idea what is able to be backed-up by fact so I’m completely open minded, grain of salt, but I just have to say the MSM reporting of this motion doesn’t match anything I read.

From MSM (say courttv etc) it makes it sound like defense is alleging an anonymous KKK-esque masked stranger event like what you would see on a movie.

But it’s actually named individuals, who were previously investigated and confirmed to be connected to the girls (and all sorts of allegations of confessions/DNA etc that only someone working the case would know, I have no opinion, I have no inside knowledge).

This won’t be new information for many people but I wondered if anyone else had the same impression? the way it is being reported by MSM made me think the allegation was an anonymous faceless group of people.

No you got it right, the D has accused 5 men of being the murderers of Abby and Libby with no proof and only one small and innocuous connection with one of the slain girls to a son of one of the men...all who were interviewed and alibis presented and checked. LE moved on to further investigations which finally, 6 years later, led to RA. There are many filings you should probably read besides the D filed FM's, IMO, to get a more accurate picture of the case so far.
AJMO

 

[TTF14]

That can be said of any religion found by one while incarcerated. Why is Odinism a bad thing?

MOO

In my opinion, any religion can be made to look bad if its symbolism and artifacts are used in the staging of a crime scene. In this case, it happens to be Odinism or a religion/practice like it.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

DBM

 

[TTF14]

That’s what is confusing me about the Purdue professor. I definitely misunderstood/misread because originally I thought they dismissed it as odinist because he said “Germanic rune script” so Germanic, not odonist.

But in actuality LE said their expert denied it was anything ritualistic aka not real runes being mimicked so then that’s where that theory ended ?

(I’m so far behind. There’s a lot to get through)

I'm not sure they actually went as far to deny it was ritualistic (or made to look that way). I think they just came to the conclusion that the tips that had been called in early on about Odinists (namely BH) turned out to be nothing. This is from my understanding, and my opinion.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

In my opinion, any religion can be made to look bad if its symbolism and artifacts are used in the staging of a crime scene. In this case, it happens to be Odinism or a religion/practice like it.

IMO MOO

I've not seen the photos (except for the tree bark and I saw no F, MHO) so I can't make that judgement. I'll not take the D's word in the FM, nor any youtuber's opinions. I'll wait for the trial and when/if expert testimony is even allowed on the subject.

 

[TTF14]

No you got it right, the D has accused 5 men of being the murderers of Abby and Libby with no proof and only one small and innocuous connection with one of the slain girls to a son of one of the men...all who were interviewed and alibis presented and checked. LE moved on to further investigations which finally, 6 years later, led to RA. There are many filings you should probably read besides the D filed FM's, IMO, to get a more accurate picture of the case so far.
AJMO

BBM

I suspect they initially thought it wasn't so small and innocuous since the tip about BH came directly from the grandmother (Becky Patty) of one of the victims (Liberty German). This information is found in page 50 of the Franks memorandum (and cites a deposition with Trooper Roland Purdy in the footnotes). Now, this comment in the Franks memo talks about how Purdy didn't hear about this theory until Becky Patty told him about it months after the murders, but that doesn't mean she didn't tell another officer about it prior to that. Officer Purdy only became involved in March and never heard from any of the other investigators that Odinism/BH was a thing until Becky Patty told him in May or June. The inference I made (my opinion) is that Becky Patty did tell the team very early on about BH, but they dismissed it/him rather quickly, before Purdy came on the team, and that Purdy heard it (again) from Becky Patty in May or June.

Since it is my opinion, from reading the Franks memo, that Becky Patty told the team about BH and his religious practices early on, something about the crime scene must have at least made HER think there was something Odinistic/ritualistic about it to make the connection with BH and his religious practices.

Just my opinion.
Opinion only.
JMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I've not seen the photos (except for the tree bark and I saw no F, MHO) so I can't make that judgement. I'll not take the D's word in the FM, nor any youtuber's opinions. I'll wait for the trial and when/if expert testimony is even allowed on the subject.

Sure. That's all any of us can do until the trial. In the meantime, we can form opinions based on the information that has been released. For me, I'm going to read all of it, information from both sides, to form my opinion. Not just information from the State. Just my opinion and my preference based on what I believe—that neither the State nor the Defense is 100% lying in their legally filed documents.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

It will be interesting to see how the purported runes and symbols are presented at trial, if they are admitted at all.

Defense is stating they are significant and point to other suspects.
Prosecution may counter that they were an attempt at staging and misdirection by RA to point at the alternate suspects.

jmo

Maybe the State knows something we don't know about RA (and whoever else was involved....the "other actors.") and his knowledge of runes. Or interest in them, anyway.

IMO MOO

 

[susiQ]

Ok no prob I wasn’t sure if maybe it had come up in any of these transcripts !

It was actually BP that spoke to one of the investigators (Purdy) a few months after the murders revealing that BH was an Odinist. It was also revealed that AW was dating BH’s son. Now we are aware that BH lied about knowing AW (first denied having met her) and has in fact now admitted to having met her at PW’s house. What we don’t know is if PW corroborates that AW was at his house for one of his Asatru worshipping garden parties.

We know from the original FM is that BH told his ex, AH, that PW killed the girls. I imagine PW has denied this. Interesting that they were once such good friends. According to AH, that friendship tanked right around the time the girls were murdered. Go figure.
JMHO

FM pgs 50,51

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

 

[susiQ]

I think they just came to the conclusion that the tips that had been called in early on about Odinists (namely BH) turned out to be nothing.

IMO MOO

RSBM
By they we must differentiate between Unified Command and other investigators, Click, Ferency and Murphy. C,F & M felt there was indeed merit in investigating EF & JM (Rushville players) and their link to BH & PW and the murders in general.
JMO

 

[TTF14]

RSBM
By they we must differentiate between Unified Command and other investigators, Click, Ferency and Murphy. C,F & M felt there was indeed merit in investigating EF & JM (Rushville players) and their link to BH & PW and the murders in general.
JMO

Correct!

IMO MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The Franks Motion Quadruplets are not fact. They are opinion coupled with the defense’s fabricated scenario on what they think happened. The footnotes contain words like “perhaps, maybe, we’re not saying it happened this way, but it mighta could have, etc”.
Why can’t we have a trial and hear the State’s side of things and what they’ve got. Let’s have sworn witnesses, and cross examinations and dueling experts. We can’t because the Judge has destroyed everything by congratulating her granddaughter on winning a softball tournament.

 

[TTF14]

The Franks Motion Quadruplets are not fact. They are opinion coupled with the defense’s fabricated scenario on what they think happened. The footnotes contain words like “perhaps, maybe, we’re not saying it happened this way, but it mighta could have, etc”.
Why can’t we have a trial and hear the State’s side of things and what they’ve got. Let’s have sworn witnesses, and cross examinations and dueling experts. We can’t because the Judge has destroyed everything by congratulating her granddaughter on winning a softball tournament.

The way I read the Franks memo, the footnotes are mostly just citations showing where they got their information—from the Discovery from the State.

IMO MOO

 

[Willow Knight]

That can be said of any religion found by one while incarcerated. Why is Odinism a bad thing?

MOO

It is NOT. And neither is PAGAN. Richard Allen is accused of murder of Libby and Abby. Murder. Libby and Abby. I will NOT stoop so low as to bring up other murders that were carried out by evil people of other faiths. Spreading lies about beliefs to get a child murderer set free is just wrong. Pathetic when people have to go back thousands of years to compare barbaric actions.

There are good and evil people in this world. And @girlhasnoname hope you know I'm just jumping off your post to express an opinion, you and your post have my respect.

Let's look at the evidence and facts of this case. The murder of Libby and Abby. Let's get it to trial.

And ye harm none.

 

[sunshineray]

You disagree that a Franks motion doesn't need to be filed? I guess you will have to take that up with the Indiana legislature, because they specify motions not made in hearing or trial must be filed.

_Rule 7. Pleadings allowed -- Form of motion
...

(B) Motions and other papers. Unless made during a hearing or trial, or otherwise ordered by the court, an application to the court for an order shall be made by written motion. The motion shall state the grounds therefor and the relief or order sought. The requirement of notice is satisfied by service of the motion."

Indiana Rules of Trial Procedure

I stated what I thought of the FM and didn't really go into great detail. I never said A Franks shouldn't have been filed, just that particular FM was not accurate and was full of non-factual what-could-be's. There was notthing solid or substantial to that FM and it was badly written in the extreme. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Except that is not what he said. He said no way a bullet from his gun was used in the murders. He didn’t say it was not his bullet. If evidence is admitted (and accepted as valid by a jury) that the bullet was from his gun, how does he explain how it got there?

Semantics can be very telling, JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Why did he write the FM and put other individuals’ names out in public if he hadn’t already consulted with experts on Odinism?

BINGO! Like someone said, shock and awe...feed the media, feed the public, feed the potential jurors our theory while under a gag order. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Okay so he’s looking for opinion and guidance. Still failing to see how contacting experts would ever be a bad thing for either side. I fully expect prosecution to be contacting experts as well.

Considering WHEN he did contact and considering the language used in the message, it could lead one to belief AB was desperate to find someone, anyone to say the branches were runes. Smells like VERY late in the game desperation to find someone. Makes me wonder why that is, since it was apparently, since the first FM, their main defense of RA...SODDI and they're Odinists. AJMO

 

[TTF14]

Why did he write the FM and put other individuals’ names out in public if he hadn’t already consulted with experts on Odinism?

But, in my opinion, he didn't pull those names and information about Odinism out of thin air. He got it from the State's own Discovery (and cited it in the footnotes) and supported by the State's own "disappeared" source they consulted with - Professor Turco. Who knows how much more information would have been put in the memo if the State hadn't "lost" so much of it. The Franks memo may have been twice as long as it already was!

IMO MOO