Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[sunshineray]

Not a bad thing. In fact a great thing - and it should have been done prior to making allegations in the FM pointing to Odinism.

Click didn’t blame Odinism or say the runes were made by them. And LT won’t either.

No Click said exactly the opposite (paraphrasing) that nobody in LE thinks the girls were killed in a sacrificial rite and the D twisted his words for sensationalism.

Delphi investigators: Defense 'twisting facts for sensationalism' over cult sacrifice claims

Richard Allen's public defenders have accused a white nationalist Odinist group of killing the girls in a ritualistic sacrifice.

www.courttv.com

 

[AugustWest]

Is she an expert...on runes?

Could be, I have no idea.

 

[sunshineray]

You absolutely can jump in @Willow Knight!

Normally when I contribute to the thread, it is on an evidentiary or other legal issue. I will not argue about any factual background in this case. But in order for the judge to make rulings on evidentiary issues (like suppression of a search warrant as in a Franks), you simply have to include a contextual background to make your point.

Would I have included all that was in the first Franks? Probably not, but I also don't have the benefit of all the information the defense has. I would (and have) defended choices the prosecution has made when the answer to a legal issue is obvious to me; it isn't about rooting for defense or prosecution for me. I don't care about RA one bit, and if he is guilty, I hope he spends the rest of his life in prison.

To me, @grannygates just hit the nail on the head with their last post. Sensationalism is driving the narrative in this case. There is a ton of overhyped garbage on social media and true crime podcasts that influence opinion pretrial. It's becoming a huge problem in the legal world, because finding an impartial jury is becoming near impossible. If you substitute the word "Odinist" with "possible suspects," this is just a SODDI case that few would raise a fuss over.

But when you have an ex-LE who's on the D's witness list for his supposed knowledge of the murdering Odinists mentioned in the FM saying, "“No one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism.” Can we not make a really good guess at where the sensationalism is coming from?

Delphi investigators: Defense 'twisting facts for sensationalism' over cult sacrifice claims

Richard Allen's public defenders have accused a white nationalist Odinist group of killing the girls in a ritualistic sacrifice.

www.courttv.com

 

[TTF14]

No Click said exactly the opposite (paraphrasing) that nobody in LE thinks the girls were killed in a sacrificial rite and the D twisted his words for sensationalism.

Delphi investigators: Defense 'twisting facts for sensationalism' over cult sacrifice claims

Richard Allen's public defenders have accused a white nationalist Odinist group of killing the girls in a ritualistic sacrifice.

www.courttv.com

But he also said this on March 18th (6 months after that link you posted). He didn't say he thinks those individuals weren't involved, just that he wasn't of the opinion that it was definitely a ritualistic sacrifice. (READ: 3/18 Delphi Hearing Transcript, Police Officer Testifies to Other Potential Suspects)

 

[sunshineray]

Didn't RA admit to shooting them?

Yes AFTER he confessed to his wife and mother no less than five times, AFTER April 3rd when his lawyers became aware of that phone call home. Sounds like throwing in some fake confessions to negate the real ones to me. AJMO

 

[TTF14]

Yes AFTER he confessed to his wife and mother no less than five times, AFTER April 3rd when his lawyers became aware of that phone call home. Sounds like throwing in some fake confessions to negate the real ones to me. AJMO

Interesting theory. I wonder if there are other cases where this happened—a defendant confessing many times with many different scenarios just to confuse the issue. And, if it's happened, I wonder how it turned out for the defendant.

Has anyone ever seen this in a case they've followed?

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

If his whole mental break was just a big act, he sure missed his calling.

IMO it's really a stretch to believe someone in solitary confinement would go through all that for weeks pretending to have a mental break. I believe the break was real and his admissions to his wife and mother were the beginning of it.

I believe so too. I think it was when his wife hung up on him and then she probably didn't want to, or was told not to, answer any more calls from him. That's when RA had his tablet tantrum, stopped eating, sleeping. A guilty conscience at work. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I’m wondering if the defense can just call the Purdue professor as an expert if they want to. I’m blanking on his name, but he is the guy LE claimed to have lost track of and the defense team swiftly found him.

IMO MOO.

The guy who the defense said told them things that he has said he never told them?

 

[sunshineray]

Im still way behind and nowhere near done but I found myself to the March18 motion with the testimony of Click, AH, SM (linked for anyone who would like) So in this SM is saying that they got multiple tips about specific people, LE interviewed these specific people, theDVR malfunctioned, videos are lost forever and they didnt investigate these people any further.

Is this a general TLDR, prosecutions stance is that these people were never investigated as potentials?

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

No. They were, very early on, alibis were checked.

 

[TTF14]

The guy who the defense said told them things that he has said he never told them?

Would you mind refreshing my memory about that? Where he said that/where you saw it? Thank you!

JMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

No. They were, very early on, alibis were checked.

For what timeframe though? Many of us believe the "timeline" doesn't make sense at all (my opinion, in my opinion only), so that changes the validity of everyone's alibis, not just BH, PW, EF, etc.

IMO MOOOOOOO

 

[AugustWest]

Yes AFTER he confessed to his wife and mother no less than five times, AFTER April 3rd when his lawyers became aware of that phone call home. Sounds like throwing in some fake confessions to negate the real ones to me. AJMO

I believe so too. I think it was when his wife hung up on him and then she probably didn't want to, or was told not to, answer any more calls from him. That's when RA had his tablet tantrum, stopped eating, sleeping. A guilty conscience at work. AJMO

You are using conjecture here, without knowing either the content or context of the supposed confessions. "Sounds like" and "probably" don't convince me. I'll simply wait until the trial to make a determination on the confessions. <modsnip>

 

[sunshineray]

BBM

I suspect they initially thought it wasn't so small and innocuous since the tip about BH came directly from the grandmother (Becky Patty) of one of the victims (Liberty German). This information is found in page 50 of the Franks memorandum (and cites a deposition with Trooper Roland Purdy in the footnotes). Now, this comment in the Franks memo talks about how Purdy didn't hear about this theory until Becky Patty told him about it months after the murders, but that doesn't mean she didn't tell another officer about it prior to that. Officer Purdy only became involved in March and never heard from any of the other investigators that Odinism/BH was a thing until Becky Patty told him in May or June. The inference I made (my opinion) is that Becky Patty did tell the team very early on about BH, but they dismissed it/him rather quickly, before Purdy came on the team, and that Purdy heard it (again) from Becky Patty in May or June.

Since it is my opinion, from reading the Franks memo, that Becky Patty told the team about BH and his religious practices early on, something about the crime scene must have at least made HER think there was something Odinistic/ritualistic about it to make the connection with BH and his religious practices.

Just my opinion.
Opinion only.
JMO MOO

All happened very early on and LE moved on after investigating. Old and vetted as far as I'm concerned. As always JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Interesting theory. I wonder if there are other cases where this happened—a defendant confessing many times with many different scenarios just to confuse the issue. And, if it's happened, I wonder how it turned out for the defendant.

Has anyone ever seen this in a case they've followed?

IMO MOO

Henry Lee Lucas

 

[sunshineray]

Sure. That's all any of us can do until the trial. In the meantime, we can form opinions based on the information that has been released. For me, I'm going to read all of it, information from both sides, to form my opinion. Not just information from the State. Just my opinion and my preference based on what I believe—that neither the State nor the Defense is 100% lying in their legally filed documents.

IMO MOO

I've, unfortunately, read it all too. Can't wait for pre-trial hearings to start!

 

[grannygates]

No. They were, very early on, alibis were checked.

This is where i am now. the transcript from mar18/24 hearing , SM says that BH was clocked into work, they contacted admin who said that BH truck may be visible on video but the video wasn't collected and none of the coworkers were interviewed (but all the LE interviews from the 6 days after the crime are lost anyways.)

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe the State knows something we don't know about RA (and whoever else was involved....the "other actors.") and his knowledge of runes. Or interest in them, anyway.

IMO MOO

I've always thought, because RA lived so close to the trails, if he was a frequent hiker in and around them. He may have come upon stuff in the woods and decided to mimic it. Just a thought

 

[TTF14]

Henry Lee Lucas

Thanks! I'll look that one up.

 

[sunshineray]

RSBM
By they we must differentiate between Unified Command and other investigators, Click, Ferency and Murphy. C,F & M felt there was indeed merit in investigating EF & JM (Rushville players) and their link to BH & PW and the murders in general.
JMO

I believe it was done. It's odd that Click has said the D twisted facts and LE doesn't believe the murders were ritualistic. Too bad we've not heard from the one remaining investigator from that Rushville team. Just some thoughts

 

[AugustWest]

Henry Lee Lucas

I agree Henry Lee Lucas did make a ton of false confessions. However, there was one huge difference between his situation and the instant case. That being, Henry Lee Lucas had already been convicted when he did so, and most believe he did so to gain preferential treatment during his sentence. This motivation isn't present here.