Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[sunshineray]

To tell your client to continue to make confessions while awaiting trial to somehow lessen the effect of a prior confession is truly one of the oddest defenses I have ever heard. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

To make false confessions. I'm of the mind, after having been convinced by D's actions and non-actions, that they know he's guilty by what he said in that April 3rd call. AJMO

 

[Megnut]

I believe so too. I think it was when his wife hung up on him and then she probably didn't want to, or was told not to, answer any more calls from him. That's when RA had his tablet tantrum, stopped eating, sleeping. A guilty conscience at work. AJMO

I don't have a feel for his personality. Polite, helpful CVS worker? Life of the bar? Jekyll/Hyde? Arguably not a pleasant drunk, but how was he as a husband, neighbor? Passive? Aggressive? Passive-aggressive?

Perhaps he's very controlling, and it wasn't so much out of a guilty conscience, it was because, in that moment, he'd felt he'd lost ALL control. So he had the mother of meltdowns, taking control of his life in bizarre ways. Acting like a caged animal. Because he felt like a caged animal.

He may be alive solely because he's been given little opportunity to check out, too much supervision. Is cooperating now, but waiting for the next opportunity.

I don't think he wants to face this AT ALL. And he's desperate not to.
 
JMO

 

[TTF14]

The guy who the defense said told them things that he has said he never told them?

Where was this said?

 

[girlhasnoname]

To tell your client to continue to make confessions while awaiting trial to somehow lessen the effect of a prior confession is truly one of the oddest defenses I have ever heard. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

This entire Defense makes no sense to me. What better way to take the stigma off of one MAJOR true confession to your wife than to run around and make numerous other confessions with obvious false information to anybody who will listen?

"Oh, never mind RA, he's just rambling obviously making things up that aren't even true, you can't take these confessions seriously". According to the Defense RA was doing fine until he made that confession(s) to his wife and mother on April 3rd and then coincidentally R&B filed a Motion for Transfer on April 4th.

Was it a devised plan? Did RA really flip, was he overcome by guilt? I can't say for certain, but I find either plausible based on the actions of the Defense and the Defendant thus far. Neither have shown me any reason to doubt their ability to 'go there' IMO.

ETA: RA is sly like a fox, hiding in plain sight to me.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

RSABBM
He didn’t. He assumed they were shot as JH brought up the bullet. JMO

I thought the same thing. In the context of the conversation, it appeared to me that Richard Allen thought Abby and Libby's cause of death was shooting. Again, we need to have the whole transcript of what was said between Richard Allen and Lt. Holeman.

Maybe Lt. Holeman was keeping that bullet as insider information to see if he could pressure Richard Allen into realizing they can tie him to the murder scene. But, from only what we know as of the time of this post, it appears it had the opposite effect.

Maybe Richard Allen is just a very good liar. But then he goes and confesses to anyone who will listen. I don't get it.

 

[Megnut]

I pop in here from time to time and why is this taking so long? What is up with the defense?

Are they dragging this out so that something happens that can cause no trial to go forward any time soon. If so I see no merit other than a hold out to cause a mistrial.

MOo MOO
EBM

IMO the Defense is carefully orchestrating delays because they don't want to go to trial until they have someone, anyone who will link the CS and Odinism. They continue to resubmit the same tired Frank's motion, this judge isn't biting so now they've got three prongs -- challenge the evidence (pings are superior to geolocation), challenge the investigation (prior POIs, Odinism), challenge the judge (refusal on account of needing Odinism in when she's keeping it out).

Their whole defense appears to rest on Odinism so IMO they'll continue to  draft craft motions and cause delays while they hunt in desperation for an expert and while they push for a new judge.

Frankly, I don't think Odinism will meet the threshold for third-party defense, no matter how many motions they pen -- it hasn't even warranted a hearing -- and jurors will hear nothing of it. It's not revelant. It's notsubstantiation. It's not substantiative.

He is entitled to A defense. He's not entitled to ANY defense. It has to meet the criteria, and this one doesn’t.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

This entire Defense makes no sense to me. What better way to take the stigma off of one MAJOR true confession to your wife than to run around and make numerous other confessions with obvious false information to anybody who will listen?

"Oh, never mind RA, he's just rambling obviously making things up that aren't even true, you can't take these confessions seriously". According to the Defense RA was doing fine until he made that confession(s) to his wife and mother on April 3rd and then coincidentally R&B filed a Motion for Transfer on April 4th.

Was it a devised plan? Did RA really flip, was he overcome by guilt? I can't say for certain, but I find either plausible based on the actions of the Defense and the Defendant thus far. Neither have shown me any reason to doubt their ability to 'go there' IMO.

ETA: RA is sly like a fox, hiding in plain sight to me.

JMO

BBM

Personally, I'm not going to make the assumption that out of all of his supposed confessions, the one MAJOR true confession was the one to his wife, ignoring all others. We haven't been informed what any of his confessions say other than the one about shooting the girls in the back. There simply isn't enough information for any of us, at this point, to make a determination on which were true confessions (if any) and which were false (if any).

IMO MOO

 

[Megnut]

Where was this said?

I think the history is that Click at one time considered an Odinism angle and the Defense is capitalizing on it.

The first article lays out the case and the second conforms for me that what Click considered at one time and what the Defense is representing of him are vastly different things.

JMO

Delphi prosecutor gets personnel records of police chief at center of Odinist defense

Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland believes Todd Click's employee records will show incidents of untruthfulness or credibility issues.

www.jconline.com

Attorneys for Richard Allen want client moved, lay out alternative theory of ‘ritualistic’ murder

DELPHI, Ind. – A ritualistic killing involving cultists. A conspiracy among prison guards. Investigators fixated on a single suspect. Those are among the stunning allegations made in court document…

fox59.com

 

[TTF14]

Thank you, but I believe we were talking about Turco, not Click. That's who I thought we were talking about anyway!

IMO MOO

 

[Megnut]

Thank you, but I believe we were talking about Turco, not Click. That's who I thought we were talking about anyway!

IMO MOO

This might be helpful.

Attorneys for Delphi murders suspect identify Purdue professor, say police withheld info

The defense team says the newly filed information supports its claim that Odinists were responsible for the murders of Libby German and Abigail Williams.

www.wndu.com

If whoever contacted the professor in the first place was not active in the investigation, it may have been a challenge to find out who did and which professor. Sounds like the Defense is again clawing for any support of a ritual killing, even if they have to twist words and context to do so.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Searchers were already beginning to show up. Perhaps BG wasn't able to complete what he started, couldn't then take the bridge and trail back and was forced to leave by way of the busy road....

So what was he starting?

I'd love to ask someone who knows him what sort of firestarter he was. How did he go about building a bonfire? Was he building a funeral pyre and would have torched whatever evidence remained? Or was he trying to cover their bodies in order to delay discovery?

Simple explanations get priority.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

Interesting, RA seems to know they were not shot. COD was not released, was kept very confidential.

Maybe RA does not know the cause of death? I thought the Murder Sheet podcast got the Ron Logan search warrant released before Richard Allen was arrested. In it, LE detailed the cause of death as being along the lines of a sharp instrument. At this point, many people, including myself, came to the conclusion Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed with, a knife, in the broad context of how they may have died.

 

[susiQ]

I thought the same thing. In the context of the conversation, it appeared to me that Richard Allen thought Abby and Libby's cause of death was shooting. Again, we need to have the whole transcript of what was said between Richard Allen and Lt. Holeman.

Maybe Lt. Holeman was keeping that bullet as insider information to see if he could pressure Richard Allen into realizing they can tie him to the murder scene. But, from only what we know as of the time of this post, it appears it had the opposite effect.

Maybe Richard Allen is just a very good liar. But then he goes and confesses to anyone who will listen. I don't get it.

RBBM
Or, perhaps RA is innocent and the abhorrent treatment he received in Westville took him over the edge and initiated a psychotic break? Not to mention, administering anti-psychotic drugs they had no way of knowing how they would affect him? I’d LOVE to know which drugs they administered and how often they switched them up when his health continued to deteriorate. Would love to go back in time and be a fly on that Westville prison cell wall to see what actually happened to RA.
JMHO

 

[susiQ]

Personally, I don’t think it is all that important whether it was a ritualistic killing or a murder made to look like a ritual killing. The importance lies in the investigation of these third party actors which in MHO was never done to my satisfaction and might I add, some LE as well.

My theory revolves around the motive of which I believe there were two. One motive involving LG and one involving AW. The crime scene speaks volumes, for me at least. For the killer(s), the fact that the girls were best friends and often together was, for lack of a better word, advantageous. Why, oh WHY, would EF assume that AW was a “troublemaker.” Who told him that I’d like to know! JM?? Who told him?? BH? PW? Was EF ever asked that question by anyone? How could BH “forget” that he had met AW at PW’s, if in fact that statement is true? AND, then suddenly remember? It was his son’s girlfriend. First BH denies ever meeting her. WHY? Why would BH tell AH that PW did it? Look at him, not me? He tells her he can’t protect her if she keeps asking questions, that PW is protected by very important people. More like BH is being protected by very important people. It is a crying shame that all the interview videos from the early weeks post murders were “lost” (right) and these actors were not subjected to a thorough investigation.

<modsnip - not victim friendly>

 

[sunshineray]

BBM

Personally, I'm not going to make the assumption that out of all of his supposed confessions, the one MAJOR true confession was the one to his wife, ignoring all others. We haven't been informed what any of his confessions say other than the one about shooting the girls in the back. There simply isn't enough information for any of us, at this point, to make a determination on which were true confessions (if any) and which were false (if any).

IMO MOO

There's always the warden letters (so the written words of RA, strong evidence, IMO) and RA's mental health doctor. He's made confessions to them also. Never have I seen a case with a defendant confessing so many times. It must be one for the record books?

 

[TTF14]

There's always the warden letters (so the written words of RA, strong evidence, IMO) and RA's mental health doctor. He's made confessions to them also. Never have I seen a case with a defendant confessing so many times. It must be one for the record books?

Indeed. And the more "confessions" he makes, the less I believe any of them. That's not to say I don't believe he's involved in some way. But, the confessions.....nah.

JMO MOO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

@grannygates This might explain the "odinism"/paganism assertion and what the defense's problem is/was. Not just the defense playing dirty ball. JMO No knights in shining armor to be found when you outright lie and hide things then get caught/ All JMO

Defense motion alleges Delphi investigator misconduct

DELPHI, Ind. — A motion filed by attorneys representing accused Delphi killer Richard Allen claims investigators misled the court about the interpretation of its interview with an expert from…

fox59.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Click said they misrepresented his opinions about the nature (and maybe motive?) of the crime, not who committed it, from what I understand (IMO MOO). He didn't say that means those people aren't involved (IMO MOO), though, and in fact 6 months later (after he said the D twisted things), he doubled down on saying he still thinks those people are involved and there was more evidence against them, in his opinion, than Richard Allen.

This is just my understanding of Todd Click's stance. I think it's entirely possible he thinks those people were at least involved and even if it wasn't ritualistic, it was, for some reason, made to look that way.

IMO MOO

Yes.
That is what Todd Click thinks and that is his stance.
We have not heard at all from the many other investigators who looked into Odinism, and BH, and EF, etc. and concluded that that was the wrong path to look into further.
The prosecution is not trying to try this through public opinion. They are waiting for the trial.
Then we will all hear Click’s testimony and see how it stands up to cross examination.
Then we will all hear the prosecution’s evidence and weigh that.
I can’t wait.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Indeed. And the more "confessions" he makes, the less I believe any of them. That's not to say I don't believe he's involved in some way. But, the confessions.....nah.

JMO MOO

Curious as to how you think RA might be involved in some way?

 

[arielilane]

Judge Gull issued an order in response to #RichardAllen and his defense that she will not recuse herself from the Delphi Murders case.#CourtTV's Senior Producer Barbara MacDonald explains how this drama in the courtroom could cause more delays.#CourtTV - #DelphiMurders case

https://twitter.com/x/status/1799572865261433279