Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[snooptroop88]

The Franks Motion Quadruplets are not fact. They are opinion coupled with the defense’s fabricated scenario on what they think happened. The footnotes contain words like “perhaps, maybe, we’re not saying it happened this way, but it mighta could have, etc”.
Why can’t we have a trial and hear the State’s side of things and what they’ve got. Let’s have sworn witnesses, and cross examinations and dueling experts. We can’t because the Judge has destroyed everything by congratulating her granddaughter on winning a softball tournament.

TOTALLY agreed. D can't prove their Odinite theory, how can they "know" it happened that way?? They do seem to desperately hope WE will think it happened this way. I don't want to speculate about what goes on in the heads of the D, but they clearly cannot prove their Franks theory, moo. And in the same breath that they are demonstrating they cannot prove it happened in the elaborately mapped-out way they describe, they are castigating anyone who dares to advance the process of putting forth legitimate speculation about their own client, who has been charged with the crime.

Wouldn't the D's tactics of publicly naming people other than their own client and tying those individuals in a very pointed way to this heinous crime-- wouldn't that be the more glaring example of vigilantism? They're essentially moving into the territory/roles of LE and the state prosecutor in what they've been trying to do, JMO. A quasi-investigation. They are acting in a role that is outside of their usual purview, moo, and acting like they've come up with "the real story."

And by the way, I think RA's guilty. <modsnip>

 

[steeltowngirl]

Personally, I don’t think it is all that important whether it was a ritualistic killing or a murder made to look like a ritual killing. The importance lies in the investigation of these third party actors which in MHO was never done to my satisfaction and might I add, some LE as well.

My theory revolves around the motive of which I believe there were two. One motive involving LG and one involving AW. The crime scene speaks volumes, for me at least. For the killer(s), the fact that the girls were best friends and often together was, for lack of a better word, advantageous. Why, oh WHY, would EF assume that AW was a “troublemaker.” Who told him that I’d like to know! JM?? Who told him?? BH? PW? Was EF ever asked that question by anyone? How could BH “forget” that he had met AW at PW’s, if in fact that statement is true? AND, then suddenly remember? It was his son’s girlfriend. First BH denies ever meeting her. WHY? Why would BH tell AH that PW did it? Look at him, not me? He tells her he can’t protect her if she keeps asking questions, that PW is protected by very important people. More like BH is being protected by very important people. It is a crying shame that all the interview videos from the early weeks post murders were “lost” (right) and these actors were not subjected to a thorough investigation.

<modsnip - not victim friendly>

I am of the belief that others were involved - but a different crowd than the EF/PW/BH crew. That said, I will set aside my disbelief for a moment and go with your theory.

My question is how does this exonerate RA from being BG? Are you feeling that one of the crew above was on the bridge and filmed by Libby?

I ask this as RA is scheduled for trial for being BG, thus potentially liable for conviction for felony murder, regardless of his level of involvement in the physical aspect of homicide.

jmo

 

[SleutherGirl]

If there was someone to be blamed for this crime, I would think that RA would have already given them up? But this whole case is wwird so what do I know.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If there was someone to be blamed for this crime, I would think that RA would have already given them up? But this whole case is wwird so what do I know.

Maybe he has tried, but if the connection to others was anonymous and digital, he doesn’t know who they are. Or there isn’t enough evidence to charge them. Or they are already behind bars.

Just some ideas.

jmo

 

[grannygates]

@grannygates This might explain the "odinism"/paganism assertion and what the defense's problem is/was. Not just the defense playing dirty ball. JMO No knights in shining armor to be found when you outright lie and hide things then get caught/ All JMO

Defense motion alleges Delphi investigator misconduct

DELPHI, Ind. — A motion filed by attorneys representing accused Delphi killer Richard Allen claims investigators misled the court about the interpretation of its interview with an expert from…

fox59.com

Thank you for sharing that! That was a really good explaination. I needed that! lol i have to say I loved the professors “Odin fanboy” description. I think that sums up my impression well




Turco confirmed, “Odinism is an extreme neo-Pagan/neo-Heathenism ideology that has right wing racist connotations,” “Vikings practiced ritual killings and sacrifices,” “He ‘could certainly imagine that this was somebody’s idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes…that scenario seems entirely plausible to me,” and, “Dr. Turco discussed how runes were thought to have ‘magical significance and would be used in incantations, in rituals and that there is a sacrificial connection in mythological poetry…these were things again where somebody who was sort of an Odin ‘fanboy’ would likely come across.”

Defense motion alleges Delphi investigator misconduct

DELPHI, Ind. — A motion filed by attorneys representing accused Delphi killer Richard Allen claims investigators misled the court about the interpretation of its interview with an expert from…

fox59.com

 

[sunshineray]

Indeed. And the more "confessions" he makes, the less I believe any of them. That's not to say I don't believe he's involved in some way. But, the confessions.....nah.

JMO MOO

Why would that be? You think nobody ever confesses to what they've done? Why would RA pick his wife and his mother to falsely confess to? Think about it. You're an innocent man accused of brutally killing two children. You don't falsely confess to LE under interrogation, under pressure but instead choose to falsely confess to your mother, your wife, the people who love you most in the world. You decide to falsely tell your most loved in the world that you're a monster...knowing how horrific that's going to be for them? That's a big nahhh for me because it makes absolutely no sense for an innocent man...being so cruel to the ones who love and support you the most. AJMO

 

[katydid23]

I simply don’t believe her when she says she’s never heard of having an open-ended trial and has never done so herself. Just my opinion.

It’s unreasonable.

IMO MOO

I don't think it is unreasonable that she would never have an open ended trial. How could a court ever schedule any of the many future hearings and trials if the other trials are 'open ended'?

I think that was also the judge's explanation---that she needed to have a clear end date in order to schedule her other business...

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think it is unreasonable that she would never have an open ended trial. How could a court ever schedule any of the many future hearings and trials if the other trials are 'open ended'?

I think that was also the judge's explanation---that she needed to have a clear end date in order to schedule her other business...

Yep her whole professional being and business doesn't revolve around just RA's case. And some have a very skewed view of the time it takes to present a case and why the cross examination of prosecution wittnesses (that's logged as the prosecution's "time" not the defense) is the meat and potatoes of the defense's performance in defending their client. It's the prosecution's burden to prove, not the defense's. Their client is innocent UNTIL proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by the evidence. Just one side must convince jurors of guilt.

I can't wait to finally see/hear the prosecution's evidence and the defense's cross examination of it. Just my thoughts

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes.
That is what Todd Click thinks and that is his stance.
We have not heard at all from the many other investigators who looked into Odinism, and BH, and EF, etc. and concluded that that was the wrong path to look into further.
The prosecution is not trying to try this through public opinion. They are waiting for the trial.
Then we will all hear Click’s testimony and see how it stands up to cross examination.
Then we will all hear the prosecution’s evidence and weigh that.
I can’t wait.

Todd Click was off the case in 2019 IIRC. He took it upon himself to continue his own 'investigation' with the other 2 Ferency and Murphy.

I believe he thought they had it solved with BH and the Odin angle and kept digging and inserting himself into the investigation. He was too invested emotionally and got his feelings hurt when the active investigators didn't take all his hard work and certified mail seriously.

<snipped>

McLeland indicated in his Tuesday motion that prosecutors believe Click's employee records will show incidents of untruthfulness or credibility issues. The motion included a subpoena ordering the Rushville police chief to turn over those documents.

https://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2024/04/23/delphi-prosecutor-targets-ex-rushville-chief-todd-glick-
investigation-odinist-richard-allen/73424767007/

moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don't think it is unreasonable that she would never have an open ended trial. How could a court ever schedule any of the many future hearings and trials if the other trials are 'open ended'?

I think that was also the judge's explanation---that she needed to have a clear end date in order to schedule her other business...

That and the fact that this jury was going to be sequestered, which would obviously made it even harder. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes.
That is what Todd Click thinks and that is his stance.
We have not heard at all from the many other investigators who looked into Odinism, and BH, and EF, etc. and concluded that that was the wrong path to look into further.
The prosecution is not trying to try this through public opinion. They are waiting for the trial.
Then we will all hear Click’s testimony and see how it stands up to cross examination.
Then we will all hear the prosecution’s evidence and weigh that.
I can’t wait.

Do we think that Click knows all the evidence the prosecution has? I don't. I think he couldn't possible know even half if it. Number one, he's retired. And more importantly even when he was employed at Rushville PD (100 miles or so from Delphi) he was an officer who ran the tech for the interview rooms, not a boots on the ground investigator with much more of a handled on investigations. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Judge Gull issued an order in response to #RichardAllen and his defense that she will not recuse herself from the Delphi Murders case.#CourtTV's Senior Producer Barbara MacDonald explains how this drama in the courtroom could cause more delays.#CourtTV - #DelphiMurders case

https://twitter.com/x/status/1799572865261433279

I don't know how accurate BM is with her reporting. She seems to be a " it's my understanding" kind of reporter. Also, is she writing a book?

 

[katydid23]

To tell your client to continue to make confessions while awaiting trial to somehow lessen the effect of a prior confession is truly one of the oddest defenses I have ever heard. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

There were comments in this forum, saying that these later confessions somehow proved that the earlier confessions were not credible. So why would it be a bad legal strategy?

 

[susiQ]

I am of the belief that others were involved - but a different crowd than the EF/PW/BH crew. That said, I will set aside my disbelief for a moment and go with your theory.

My question is how does this exonerate RA from being BG? Are you feeling that one of the crew above was on the bridge and filmed by Libby?

I ask this as RA is scheduled for trial for being BG, thus potentially liable for conviction for felony murder, regardless of his level of involvement in the physical aspect of homicide.

jmo

I’m not “exonerating” RA. I don’t know what, if anything, the State has that might possibly change my position regarding his involvement or lack thereof. I have very strong doubts that RA = BG. I do think it’s possible one of the above crew is BG. I think it possible that the AS account was used by someone to arrange a way to get the girls to the bridge and trails for some kind of meet up.

While this could be “pinned” to low level evil actors, when drugs and possibly CSAM are involved, you can bet your bottom dollar there are much bigger fish that should be fried. I firmly believe if the above crew had been thoroughly investigated, the trail would have led LE to the next step up the serpent’s ladder. JMHO

 

[AugustWest]

There were comments in this forum, saying that these later confessions somehow proved that the earlier confessions were not credible. So why would it be a bad legal strategy?

People say a lot of things on these forums. That certainly doesn't make the same comments good legal advice.

 

[katydid23]

People say a lot of things on these forums. That certainly doesn't make the same comments good legal advice.

IDK. Maybe the attorneys heard about RA telling his family he was guilty and it was recorded by the prison.

What should they do? They probably were not happy.

I can see the possible strategy---They tell him they can possibly get him a fair chance at a Not Guilty verdict---but he needs to stop confessing. Or IF YOU MUST DO SO, GIVE THE WRONG DETAILS, so you won't be taken seriously.

I have heard it said that here if he has confessed many times but with the wrong facts, then it shows they were false confessions. I think that is an understandable assumption.

So it is not that big of a stretch, IMO, that he would think he could mitigate some of the damage of the confessions by making several more but with incorrect info----to make him seem unhinged and unwell.

It might not be considered 'good legal advice' --- but I do think it might have unfolded in a similar way.

 

[AugustWest]

Why would I, as a defense attorney for a person accused of double murder, and after hearing my client has confessed, then advise my client to make more confessions, then try to have all the confessions suppressed prior to trial? Why would I make life harder on myself by doing that? If I didn't want the confessions to be heard at trial, why add more problems to deal with?

That fact scenario will never make sense to me. It sounds completely ludicrous. IMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

IMO
RA's attys didn't seem too distressed over the admissions to his wife and mother.
The D were the ones who brought the issue up.
I think they said something something about the jury hearing it in context.

 

[Boxer]

If there was someone to be blamed for this crime, I would think that RA would have already given them up? But this whole case is wwird so what do I know.

Agree. He is obviously in mental distress.

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not “exonerating” RA. I don’t know what, if anything, the State has that might possibly change my position regarding his involvement or lack thereof. I have very strong doubts that RA = BG. I do think it’s possible one of the above crew is BG. I think it possible that the AS account was used by someone to arrange a way to get the girls to the bridge and trails for some kind of meet up.

While this could be “pinned” to low level evil actors, when drugs and possibly CSAM are involved, you can bet your bottom dollar there are much bigger fish that should be fried. I firmly believe if the above crew had been thoroughly investigated, the trail would have led LE to the next step up the serpent’s ladder. JMHO

That KAK-revealed biggest CSAM investigation in the state's history is still going on. The FBI is working it too. I would guess that they may have a pretty good idea just what that ladder is shaping up to look like. I too believe it's possible KAK's accounts were used to lure the girls. The prosecutor has said others may be involved. RA gets moved from Westville to Wabash and KAK is shipped right out of there pronto...an interesting fact. RA was known to be in Peru when his wife needed to care for her mother there, not far at all from KAK's. It's not improbable he may have stopped into a bar or two within that time. Maybe he met some locals there and they became friends...who knows. All of that still doesn't negate RA being the right one that LE arrested and the prosecutor charged with Abby and Libby's murders. Who knows, we may not have heard the last of KAK...IF the case against RA finally makes it to trial. Just some thoughts