MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #7

[waldojabba]

So Proctor originally thought JOK was beat up by the homeowners based on talking to the paramedic and doesn’t at least want to rule it out during the investigation?

Even if he thought KR did it and had witness statements that JOK never went into the house why not do forensics to verify it and rule it out by checking for blood, vomit residue, mucus, bodily fluids, skin cells, hair samples or fibers from his clothes? There wasn’t an explanation for the cuts on JOK’s arm so even if didn’t think BA was not involved why try to do forensics or take samples or comparisons from the dog and maybe other loose or wild dogs in the area even if it is again to rule Chloe’s involvement or that train of thought out? He wouldn’t even have to accuse the Alberts in this case but say the investigation is covering all their bases.

Proctor emphasizing the JOK’s missing sneaker stood out to me. Even though shoes do often come off when pedestrians are struck by vehicles they can also become loose and if not corrected, fall off when the wearer trips, slips, kicks with a strong enough force, gets a foot caught in a hole or substance like mud, sand and snow. When sneakers or socks become wet or become soggy it cause a shoe to fall off. Analysis of trace evidence have shown that in some cases shoes have either been intentionally pulled off or accidentally jolted off by perps when they have dragged or helped carry a victim by their feet and legs. Instead of just viewing that missing sneaker as a sign of vehicular hit he could have it used it to keep open mind during the investigation to still rule out physical assault, IMO.

Also, the lack of abdominal and pelvic trauma and fractures or injuries to the legs on JOK remains didn’t bother him or cause concern but JO’s missing shoe did?

Great comment. Logic and common sense should have prevailed. Cover all the bases.
But here we are.
JMO

 

[HarmonyE.]

Proctor will probably be sent for 'sensitivity training'. He'll likely face internal discipline and embarrassing the force will be taken into account. His discipline history will also be taken into account if there is any. He is unionized and he'll have his union backing him as well as be entitled to legal assistance (I think....many police forces have the legal representation). Unless it can be proven that he acted in a manner that affected the investigation I doubt anything other than the loss of a few days pay will happen.

Oh, no, no, no. The union can't help him and it won't.

He is a very bad and dirty cop who framed an innocent woman. Buckle up for Wednesday.

I hope Jackson gives Yannetti some of the cross.

 

[KMouse]

One thing I must school about black humor. It is NEVER written or recorded. People may say it while they're trying to compartmentalize and it's ignored, not fed.

For some.

only imo misogyny is not black humour.

Agreed but using the names that he used for Karen is not uncommon unfortunately. Trust me I am not condoning it. I have worked in male dominated law enforcement jobs for over 32 years. I am glad social media and cell phones were not a thing in my early days.

 

[BrownRice]

This will be hammered home during closing. There's a video of Read cracking her taillight at 5 am. Minimal damage seen on video. Taillight intact. Kerry Roberts saw a single piece missing. The Dighton officer saw a single piece missing

Dirty cop gets his hands on the taillight at Canton garage (where it should not have been) and suddenly a total of 45 pieces - a few very large - keep "revealing" themselves on the Fairview lawn over the period of many days.

No chance Read is convicted.

IF Karen Read is convicted, she will be in the OJ and Casey Anthony camp of WTH were the jurors thinking.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

Have you ever heard the term 'black humour'? I know many professionals that make unprofessional comments but still give 110% and do not let their personal feelings affect how they do their job. If you think that this is not common then you live under a rock. Proctor just got caught at it.

How is claiming to look for personal and sexual photos of KR black humour? I don't even want to repeat the utterly derogative words he used to describe her. I fail to see how it's funny...at all.

The "man" has some sort of ego to think he can conduct himself like that. He's misogynistic and I'd go as far to say abusive. He's a disgrace and there is no justifying that by bringing in different types of "humour". Jmo.

 

[shotgun09]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you help me out?

Surely !
In his testimony Colin A was confronted with a few videos of him which were showing violent and threatening behavior towards others on Social Media. In one of them, he ended with saying "Bang Bang". He portayed a young guy, trying to be all bravioso- bad azz. Similar to Proctor acting like a misogynist jerk. Both very high-schoolish, IMO

 

[KMouse]

Oh, no, no, no. The union can't help him and it won't.

He is a very bad and dirty cop who framed an innocent woman. Buckle up for Wednesday.

I hope Jackson gives Yannetti some of the cross.

He is entitled to be represented by a union rep. as well as legal representation.
How do you know the union won't help him? The union is required to represent it's membership no matter their personal feelings.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

IF Karen Read is convicted, she will be in the OJ and Casey Anthony camp of WTH were the jurors thinking.

At this point I just can't even imagine that being the outcome!

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

The judge is also allowing Proctor to narrate a half apology when he should only be answering direct questions.

The testimony thus far from this prosecution witness is a frankly astounding IMO. If I was defense counsel (IANAL) I think one question I’d ask Proctor under cross would be - ‘do you believe you or someone in law enforcement making such statements about a potential suspect should be fired for that conduct?’

And before the judge could rule I would offer to withdraw the question - while looking at the jury. MOO

 

[bcv513]

I understand this is Proctor's personal cell phone correct? If it is his work phone then please correct me. Proctor likely never thought in a million years that his personal cell phone contents would be extracted and read aloud in court as part of a murder trial.
I personally know better than to discuss work things on my personal phone beyond a meme here and there. However I have had to deal with people that have chosen to use their work email or other applications in an inappropriate manner. The dark humour is something else and it is a means of coping with the obscene.
Proctor will probably be sent for 'sensitivity training'. He'll likely face internal discipline and embarrassing the force will be taken into account. His discipline history will also be taken into account if there is any. He is unionized and he'll have his union backing him as well as be entitled to legal assistance (I think....many police forces have the legal representation). Unless it can be proven that he acted in a manner that affected the investigation I doubt anything other than the loss of a few days pay will happen.

I’m a state employee in a much less important department in Mass and it is hammered into us regularly that once we start talking about work on our personal devices those devices become applicable to the public records law and must be disclosed. I find it hard to believe troopers aren’t taught the same. They just think they’re above the rules

 

[housewife]

Proctor was also the lead investigator in the Ana Walshe disappearance/murder. A case which involved a lot of electronic data. And a victim who I think most people would agree was very attractive.

I can only shudder to think what his comments will have been regarding her.

This will be a huge boon for Brian Walshe's defense.

This is exactly what I expected from him.
Proctor's attitude and behavior didn't just happen overnight.
All of his past cases (especially with women) are completely tainted.

 

[HarmonyE.]

He is entitled to be represented by a union rep. as well as legal representation.
How do you know the union won't help him? The union is required to represent it's membership no matter their personal feelings.

Unions negotiate contracts for salaries and benefits. They address workplace issues like safety, training, and overtime rules.

They don't step in and defend rogue cops. Nor would other dues-paying members want them too.

Any thoughts on why the FBI is involved with this case?

 

[Wishbone]

Aside from calling Yanetti's comment about the mirrored video hyperbole I guess the ruling on the expert witnesses could have been worse. As it stands right now there will be 2 crash experts that will undergo individual questioning without the jury present before taking the stand and the same goes for the doctor.

‘I don’t need hyperbole’: Judge calls out Karen Read’s attorney during motion hearing

Judge Beverly Cannone called out a defense attorney on Monday morning during a contentious motion hearing before witness testimony resumed in the Karen Read murder trial.

www.boston25news.com

 

[TTF14]

This will be hammered home during closing. There's a video of Read cracking her taillight at 5 am. Minimal damage seen on video. Taillight intact. Kerry Roberts saw a single piece missing. The Dighton officer saw a single piece missing

Dirty cop gets his hands on the taillight at Canton garage (where it should not have been) and suddenly a total of 45 pieces - a few very large - keep "revealing" themselves on the Fairview lawn over the period of many days.

No chance Read is convicted.

This all day.

IMO JMO

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

My big takeaways from today:

1) Surely despite whatever else the CW has planned - barring video evidence of Karen hitting John on purpose - their case tanked today. I do not see how they get back the jury back after this.

2) I think I’m finally starting to understand Judge Cannone. It seems that a lot of her perceived animosity toward the defense comes from their insinuations of corruption within the ranks of MA first responders - cops, state troopers, EMTs. This is the system Cannone works to uphold and is invested in - professionally, morally, ethically. When presented with that actual corruption today she reacted with, I’d say, disgust. I think she is someone who desperately wants the system to work because she understands it has to, and anyone who throws a wrench in that system earns her ire. JMO.

3) It should the scare crap out of all of us that none of this ever would have come to light without the federal investigation. As citizens we have to place so much trust in our LE and when that trust is betrayed the consequences are devastating.

4) What does it say about Lally’s track record thus far that I was actually relieved he brought up the texts first in direct instead of letting AJ shred his witness on cross like has happened every other time? (Although on second thought, after hearing the texts, maybe this was the one time he should’ve just skipped over that…)

5) The CW apologists are real quiet in this thread ever since Proctor took the stand - cmon, don’t be shy! Let’s hear how this was actually another masterful gambit by the CW.

 

[Seattle1]

When Kerry was describing the small hole and then the snow on it, something was sticking out, at the time watching, I believed she said wires but something from the hole I interpreted as.

Thanks @keek. I found Kerry Roberts to be one of the most credible witnesses to date, and she did describe a small hole covered in snow and believed she saw a piece of piece of metal protruding that could snag (most likely the chrome).

In conversation, KR was also very quick to dismiss KR's question whether or not she hit JO but acknowledged that she must have hit something. And no matter how many times she was questioned by the CW about KR's SUV and the tail light, or presented photographs of the tail light, she did not and would not exaggerate what she saw.

IMO, I thought the CW worked overtime trying to get Kerry to describe something that was not obvious to her when she followed the subject SUV from JM's house to the victim's home, and when she looked closely at the tail light when it was pointed out to her by KR while standing in JO's driveway.

But after watching Proctor pull the entire tail light housing out of the evidence bag today, without a trace of red/clear plastic pieces still intact, it finally started to make sense to me.

IMO, I think this case needed more matter of fact witnesses like Kerry. It seemed to me that KR was a true friend of the victim and his family. MOO.

 

[TristanP]

The question we don’t have an answer to is, how healthy JO was?

I hope the police goes through regular physicals. My opinion, they are not the healthiest bunch to start with - usually, higher cholesterol and it is related to constant stress.

However, we are at the beginning of 2022. For all I know, 2020 and half of 2021, most doctors’ offices were closed here in WA. I assume MA is similar to WA, mentality-wise, I lived in both states, so isolation was taken seriously, and vaccinations, too. As the side effect, it meant fewer doctors’ visits. To be honest, places started opening in 2022. So it is quite possible that even if JO had his annual in 2021, it was too early to get it in the beginning of 2022.

Now, I paid attention to the “raccoon eyes syndrome” that everyone had been indirectly mentioning (hematomas on the eyes). These are not “eyes beaten”, it is a syndrome that is usually observed with basal skull fractures or other intracranial traumas. However, as I was refreshing memory about it yesterday, I read about other conditions causing it.

Raccoon eyes - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

And this brings up a point. Could there be one of these conditions mentioned, undiagnosed, because it was at the beginning? Could JO be more prone to bleeding? I would be the first one to insist that we don’t know the answer for an obvious reason, TB posting photo of John’s arm with scratches was a postmortem photo, it is a major HIPAA violation. So I’d rather we don’t know the answer, but the question - could JO have the beginning of a condition that would lead to decreased blood clotting? And could it have exacerbated the consequences of being hit by a car and falling? - can be asked.

IMHO, it doesn’t minimize KR’s responsibility as you can’t drunk drive and hit your boyfriend with a car, sorry.

But I wanted to throw some food for thought as to when the consequences could be worse.

It’s not a HIPAA violation for TB to post that pic. He was not a medical provider for JO and was not bound by any type of HIPAA law.

 

[HarmonyE.]

He is entitled to be represented by a union rep. as well as legal representation.
How do you know the union won't help him? The union is required to represent it's membership no matter their personal feelings.

Represent him for what? For framing an innocent woman and costing the Commonwealth millions of dollars? Never mind allowing the murderers of a Boston cop to go free?

I'm sure he can ask a union rep to sit in on any discussions he has with LE. Not that he or she can do a damn thing for him. Too bad he burned that bridge with DY. He's a pretty good defense lawyer.

 

[TTF14]

2) I think I’m finally starting to understand Judge Cannone. It seems that a lot of her perceived animosity toward the defense comes from their insinuations of corruption within the ranks of MA first responders - cops, state troopers, EMTs. This is the system Cannone works to uphold and is invested in - professionally, morally, ethically. When presented with that actual corruption today she reacted with, I’d say, disgust. I think she is someone who desperately wants the system to work because she understands it has to, and anyone who throws a wrench in that system earns her ire. JMO.

Agree. She strikes me as being extremely intelligent about the law. I just wish they'd say what the objections (and her rulings) are about so we can learn too!

 

[housewife]

For some.

Agreed but using the names that he used for Karen is not uncommon unfortunately. Trust me I am not condoning it. I have worked in male dominated law enforcement jobs for over 32 years. I am glad social media and cell phones were not a thing in my early days.

That's very sad. I'm sorry you had to work in that environment.
Unfortunately that tracks with how women have been treated by LE (historically and currently).
A common problem is still a problem that needs to be eliminated.