Found Deceased FL - Madeline Soto, 13, Missing Child Alert, 13500 blk Town Loop Blvd, Orlando, 26 Feb 2024 *arrest* #9

[Curious Me]

I’ve wondered about the ‘early morning hours’ comment too. To me the early morning hours are from 1-3 am or thereabouts. LE must have evidence of MS being moved around that time. Otherwise, you typically wouldn't refer to the time you’d eat breakfast or got the kids ready for school as ‘early morning hours.’...snipped to reply

Oh, figuring most are sleeping during the night, I see using that term "early morning hours" to mean after a long dark night. SS had from 11p.m. - 7 a.m., but it seems more likely to me that something might've happened to MS around 4-5 a.m. Towards morning. What would you call those hours then?

​

 

[Gemmie]

Oh, figuring most are sleeping during the night, I see using that term "early morning hours" to mean after a long dark night. SS had from 11p.m. - 7 a.m., but it seems more likely to me that something might've happened to MS around 4-5 a.m. Towards morning. What would you call those hours then?

​

According to Cambridge:

the early hours of the morning, between twelve o'clock at night and the time when the sun rises

early hours

1. the early hours of the morning, between twelve o'clock at night and the time…

dictionary.cambridge.org

 

[sprightly]

WARNING: GRAPHIC DISCUSSION OF DEATH PROCESSES

Yeah, I read "early morning hours" as more like 4 a.m. to 5 a.m. myself, although obviously that is open to some interpretation.

I'm so sorry for everything I'm about to type, but it sounds like Maddie was limp in the initial videos, the ones from 7:35 a.m. on, so I'm guessing she was fairly recently dead at that point. But when she was found, her knees were bent, in an almost-fetal position ... OR like someone who had entered into rigor mortis while seated in a car.

This horrifying timeline would work if she died around 4 a.m. and was limp when placed in the car but then went into rigor while seated. He drove around with her in the car for AWHILE.

 

[Curious Me]

According to Cambridge:
the early hours of the morning, between twelve o'clock at night and the time when the sun rises...

MOO, that's a broad definition. I'm a night owl, so I go to bed in what some might consider "the middle of the night". It's almost early morning hours. I go to bed in the "middle of the night"-- What time do you think that is? ​

 

[Curious Me]

WARNING: GRAPHIC DISCUSSION OF DEATH PROCESSES (continued)

but it seems more likely to me that something might've happened to MS around 4-5 a.m.

This horrifying timeline would work if she died around 4 a.m. and was limp when placed in the car but then went into rigor while seated.

from Court TV:

Warning - read at your own discretion. We seem to agree on the timing. Going by a 4-5:00 a.m. death, then in car seat roughly from 7:35 to 9:40 before being placed in the trunk seems like rigor would make it possible rigor was starting before placed in trunk, and in a sitting position as you stated. To move limbs after it sets in would require force and more. All MOO​

 

[Gemmie]

WARNING: GRAPHIC DISCUSSION OF DEATH PROCESSES

Yeah, I read "early morning hours" as more like 4 a.m. to 5 a.m. myself, although obviously that is open to some interpretation.

I'm so sorry for everything I'm about to type, but it sounds like Maddie was limp in the initial videos, the ones from 7:35 a.m. on, so I'm guessing she was fairly recently dead at that point. But when she was found, her knees were bent, in an almost-fetal position ... OR like someone who had entered into rigor mortis while seated in a car.

This horrifying timeline would work if she died around 4 a.m. and was limp when placed in the car but then went into rigor while seated. He drove around with her in the car for AWHILE.

Perhaps it's exactly as you said. Rigor so an almost fetal position. I'm thinking it also could be because when a person is being carried (no rigor), one arm is under their back and the other arm behind their knees. It's called The Cradle. Then all he'd do was lay her down on her side so that almost fetal position would make sense.

I just stood with my arms held out like I was carrying someone (elbows against the sides of my waist, but not the actual sides as that's too awkward), then bent to place the imaginary person on the ground. When bending to do that, my lower arms and hands were no longer horizontal, but the 'side' of the person and my hands were now aimed at the ground.

There's also the Fireman Carry but I'm thinking it was more likely the Cradle.



While I can't find a video of someone being placed on the ground/floor, etc., this video gives me an idea of what it could look like if the guy being carried was unconscious. It looks like he could have dropped him onto his side, and I'm thinking it's likely his legs would have remained bent.



To see it in action:

 

[Gemmie]

MOO, that's a broad definition. I'm a night owl, so I go to bed in what some might consider "the middle of the night". It's almost early morning hours. I go to bed in the "middle of the night"-- What time do you think that is? ​

I think it's the same as "early morning hours" IMO, since that's what I've always considered it to be. But I've been wrong about things in the past so I checked to see what Google had to say about that and this source says the same:

So if it's dark from, for example, 8 pm to 6 am, then the exact "middle of the night" is 1 am (10 hours of darkness, 5 hours after 8 pm is 1 am). Because "middle of the night" is not a precise time, some would say that only after midnight is "late", and Bherefore "middle of the night" is between midnight and dawn.

When can we say an activity happening in the middle of the night?

I often go to bed at 10 pm and wake up at 6 or 7am. One day, I was sleeping when the phone rang at 11:30pm: Can I say the phone rang in the middle of the night in this case? If not, then Can I say ...

ell.stackexchange.com

 

[Ladyotm]

She said she did this every day. I can’t think of a single reason she would do that unless she wanted to be first in line and didn’t want to wait behind others. Either way she’d be waiting though… and it probably wouldn’t be AN HOUR if she had to wait on other cars to leave first.

View attachment 510074

Some school car lines are long! My grandson's carline use to be over an hour. So, if you wanted to pick up and avoid being behind the other cars, you came an hour early. Even coming 30 minutes early, might have you waiting an entire hour. Just due to the sheer number of students being picked up. On the other hand, my daughter's school of about 220 students conducted pick up between 3 and 3:30 pm. If I came at 3, I would be waiting for at least 20 minutes. But if I came at 3:20, I would only be in line about 10-15 minutes. I kid you not, when I student taught, parents were in line at 12:30 for the 2:30 pick up, which went on for an hour or so.

 

[photographer4]

SS is so weird, these items could have been for other things, and/or with other people.

Would also note, you will routinely find all of these things in my car's trunk. Well, not netting currently but all of the others? Yup. And a shovel, tape, contractor bags lol.... I garden.

Was this the Lincoln belonging to SS' father? If so, maybe he goes fishing or something?

Again, SS is beyond horrible, just noting there are plenty or ordinary reasons those items could be in a vehicle.

IF SS was also on video at Home Depot or Walmart or something buying them all on the way to the condo or some other weird time, then yes, VERY suspicious.

MOO

I had just assumed the netting was the typical trunk net thing to make it so things are within easy reach and don't slide around in a trunk....They'd collect it for any forensic value since her body was moved and spent considerable time in the trunk.

 

[Vanilletx]

Why was the one croc in JS’s room? Especially when SS talked about her crocs in the initial interviews; that he was making fun of crocs and socks that Monday morning.

This is really bothering me with the tineline. If she was unalived in the early hours, she would have been wearing pjs right? So when did he dress her and why was one of her shoes in Js’s room by the window? Also if her clothes were stored in the dresser in the living room he would have had to go there to get them. How did the one croc end up in moms room?

 

[Anika]

Why was the one croc in JS’s room? Especially when SS talked about her crocs in the initial interviews; that he was making fun of crocs and socks that Monday morning.

This is really bothering me with the tineline. If she was unalived in the early hours, she would have been wearing pjs right? So when did he dress her and why was one of her shoes in Js’s room by the window? Also if her clothes were stored in the dresser in the living room he would have had to go there to get them. How did the one croc end up in moms room?

And how did JS not notice that when she woke up and got dressed? I can't recall if she also said that MS was wearing Crocs, and I guess if you're kinda checked out, it's possible she just didn't see it, but if she did and then he later specified publicly that MS was wearing those shoes, I'd think it'd stick out to her. Kinda doesn't sit right with me either.

 

[Ladyotm]

SS volunteering to walk the dog and then leaving before JS did before her doc appointment gives me the impression he was trying to prevent JS from seeing Maddie in his vehicle.

Him calling at 10:18 just to pointlessly mention there was no McDonald’s trip makes me wonder if he used that odd excuse to call to see if anyone from Maddie’s school tried to contact yet about her daughter’s absence. He, like many others, probably wasn’t aware that the school didn’t contact parents/guardians about their children’s absence until the end of the day.

Still, I don’t understand why Maddie had to come back home if JS would be too tired to take her to school the next day and worse, she kicked MS out of her room and told her to sleep with SS instead. Why couldn’t Maddie just continue staying with her grandparents? I think based on how Maddie seemed to be improving overall, academically, emotionally and physically since SS has been gone JS must have thought to herself that SS was most likely the problem? I mean even she and Maddie were getting along better. I wouldn’t be surprised if JS noticed a behavior change in Maddie almost immediately upon returning home Sunday night so why disrupt and put SS back in her environment? If JS wasn’t going to kick SS out, which she should have done, the least she could have done is let MS stay with her parents or let them take her to school. MOO

Okay, so I'm pages behind. But I'm going back to the fact that he had his dad's phone. Has the 10:18 call from Sterns been verified? Has calls between Sterns and his father been verified for the 26th? Is it possible that he had contact with his father earlier in the day? Is it possible he told his father he had done something terrible?
I'm just asking questions that just popped up in my head. If anyone has any insight or opinions they would like to share on it, please do.

 

[ttjo]

Okay, so I'm pages behind. But I'm going back to the fact that he had his dad's phone. Has the 10:18 call from Sterns been verified? Has calls between Sterns and his father been verified for the 26th? Is it possible that he had contact with his father earlier in the day? Is it possible he told his father he had done something terrible?
I'm just asking questions that just popped up in my head. If anyone has any insight or opinions they would like to share on it, please do.

I think all this info is coming from the police reports. I dont know about ss dad calling ss on the 26th, I read in a phone log that (was posted from the jail ) that he spoke to his dad the day they found maddi.
Ill try to find it for you BRB

 

[Beekarina]

Just thought of this: didn't SS and or JS say MS left her phone in her room?

We now know MS did not even HAVE a room of her own, and Sunday night she was sent to sleep with SS.

So WTH??

 

[Vanilletx]

It places JS in the middle of the coverup to me. Let’s say SS needed shoes for MS. Why would her shoes be there anyway if she slept in another room?

She was wearing brown sandals with that blue dress the night before at the party. If he needed shoes for her and he made the excuse of the leash he would have grabbed both shoes then. But why just one?

I still think they worked together and pushed her out the window so the roommates didn’t walk in on them . They were panicked and didn’t notice it. They probably had a mess to clean up

It was on the ground floor. Maybe someone familiar with the layout of the condo can weigh in.

I can’t think of any other reason other than SS trying to frame JS if she is truly innocent. But why that shoe?

 

[Beekarina]

JS bedroom is the one on the ground floor?

Based on what you just posted, I wonder if all 3 DID sleep downstairs that night.

Maybe MS was in the corner of the livingroom, and JS and SS started off the night in JS bedroom. Any number of things could have then taken place.....

edited: it would be interesting to know when the roommates went to sleep Sunday night (if home) and when they left the condo Monday morning.

 

[Vanilletx]

Living room kitchen and JS bedroom and bathroom on first floor, 3 bedrooms upstairs. There are 3 bathrooms so maybe two bathrooms upstairs? Not sure!

Yes we have to consider that they all spent the night together downstairs. JS statements are not consistent!

Somehow that shoe stayed behind and is trying to tell a story for us?

 

[Beekarina]

This is really bothering me with the tineline. If she was unalived in the early hours, she would have been wearing pjs right? So when did he dress her and why was one of her shoes in Js’s room by the window? Also if her clothes were stored in the dresser in the living room he would have had to go there to get them. How did the one croc end up in moms room?

I've always thought the black shorts were worm as pajamas. Probably the green hoodie as well. MOO!

Edited: Is the McDonalds a 24 hour one?

Asking because I think there is often some truth to lies, and we have already seen SS doing this with the vape shop, Target etc. Maybe he did something weird like a middle of the night McDs run with MS as a "reward"

 

[Vanilletx]

Graphic so please stop reading if you do not want to read details about death







I wonder if she was still barely alive when placed in the car. She was wearing black shorts and a hoodie.

When a person dies there is a release of fluids from the bowels. Its messy , but a fact of life, nothing is restraining anymore

She may have released as she passed (rest in peace sweet girl) and he ran back to get a change of bottoms (going back for the clicker)

He had to be subtle and not make a big deal as roommates were probably up. He grabbed jeans out of dresser and changed her somewhere? Maybe in the parking garage before he moved the body, then threw out the black shorts with fecal matter.


Jmho. He wouldn’t have gone back with a dead body in the front seat for anything other than a big emergency and this was dad’s car. He couldn’t have poop dripping everywhere for hours.


Edited to add, js was in the bedroom or cleaning at that point. He forgot to tell her about the jeans imho

One more point: the police would be aware of this too by forensic testing in the house and car. I think they believe she unalived in the car at some point as they expanded the window of time of death significantly … and that is one way to determine she was unalived in the car vs in the house.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Okay, so I'm pages behind. But I'm going back to the fact that he had his dad's phone. Has the 10:18 call from Sterns been verified? Has calls between Sterns and his father been verified for the 26th? Is it possible that he had contact with his father earlier in the day? Is it possible he told his father he had done something terrible?
I'm just asking questions that just popped up in my head. If anyone has any insight or opinions they would like to share on it, please do.

I haven’t finished going through all the documents either. They mention the 10:18 call between SS and JS about the missed McDonald’s trip in one of the Incident Reports for JS’ interviews. If I come across any other info to verify it I will follow up.