Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

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Folks can defend RA and say he’s innocent and that’s OK because we haven’t had a trial. All any of us have is our opinions.
But I don’t see how the defense’s behavior, motions or tactics can be defended and we do have evidence of that. It is so unprofessional it’s infantile. RA deserves a competent defense team.
If RA is so very innocent let’s go to trial and see the evidence related to his guilt or innocent. I am fairly certain how or when court figures request bathroom breaks has nothing to do with it.
It is an embarrassment to the law schools that graduated them and absolutely shameful what they are putting Libby and Abby’s families through.
These children are dead. Brutally killed. And this defense is whining about bathroom breaks. So for the last two weeks they all sat around a table drinking Red Bull and ordering pizza, brainstorming this pathetic stuff. Surely peals of laughter were heard as one joke after another was thrown out. “Ooo! Ooo! What about bathroom breaks!” What a riot! What fun!
Just my opinion and it’s probably not going to change.

Edit: adding stuff

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Sometimes I have mix feelings. They haven't an easy job. Their client is a nightmare as client because the things that he said, confessions, etc. Everytime he talks, he made his defense more difficult. How can you defend that? You can appoint the bad investigation at the beggining but this maybe isn't enough (depending of the evidence and what their client said). They can talk to him, hear what he wants and explain it can be better to change his plea, or like they are doing - try to taint the jury pool or prepare for an appeal.

Honestly, I didn't like the fact that the voicemail of Baldwin was made public - he was just trying to do his job which is a difficult job. But confirmed my suspicions they weren't ready for the trial a month before it.

But then they file absolute ridiculous motions with some valid points and then absolute ridiculous points that outshine the rest and they lose the rest of my little sympathy. Like the ding dong thing. If Judge Gull had playfull called them ding dong, they would call her biased, awful,disrespectful, file a motion for her to remove what she called them, etc. They show absolute disrespect for the court, the judge, the prosecution, their professions, the families, to their client, etc. I felt second hand embarassment reading that.

For me, it's indifferent which judge will preside the trial. I think any other judge wouldn't be half patient as Judge Gull has been. Any other Judge would have held Rozzi in contempt when he was screaming at the judge she didn't know anything about the case.

My bet is this trial will not occur in October. The defese will try to stall at maximum.
 
Calling someone a playful name like "ding dong" insinuates familiarity. Camaraderie. Fondness. Not appropriate in a courtroom where she's supposed to at least give the appearance of being unbiased. I've talked to someone who has been in the courtroom and they've said that her tone of voice with the defense is terrible compared to how she talks to the State (but they think it's funny since they're anti-defense). Now, these are seasoned attorneys, so I'm sure they're used to that, as all defense attorneys probably are. It goes with the job. But, they also know, since they are seasoned attorneys, that it's not OK for a judge to appear to be so biased. They've probably filed motions like this before, and know they have to give examples if they are going to allege it. If they didn't give examples, folks would be crying, "Like what?? If she's so biased, give us an example!" They can't win. I doubt the example provided is much different than other examples given by other attorneys in other cases when a judge acts inappropriately chummy with the prosecution. And now it's on the record. And they made a good point about the law stating perceived bias, an appearance of bias. There doesn't have to be hard and fast proof that she IS biased since we can't read her mind. But she's not even supposed to be appearing like she's biased, and at that she has failed. IMO

I'm more interested in what she's going to do about the lie told about Baston. Either she, Tobe Leazenby, or the deputy who wrote the report lied. I really don't think it was her, so she MUST be furious that either Tobe or the deputy lied about what SHE said/instructed. That threatens her reputation as a judge, so she must be spitting nails. I would be if someone put untrue words in my mouth.

We'd expect that anyway. Let's wait and see.

IMO MOO
Is it possible the direction was given not by JG herself but by someone in her office?
 
Is it possible the direction was given not by JG herself but by someone in her office?

Good question. I don't know enough about how the judge's office works to know if that would be plausible. I can't imagine many people have that authority. Someone's gonna be in trouble.

Haha just kidding. She'll let it slide.

IMO JMO
 
I didn't say the prosecution has been dodging hearings. Just that the judge isn't holding them.
Yes because the defense won't let them occur. MO Also, not every single motion the defense or prosecution may make deserves a hearing. It's up to them to prove to the judge in that motion that within the law, a hearing is necessary.
 
The defense isn’t arguing for more or even equal time to the prosecution. All they want is an adequate amount of time to present their case. The issue is that the judge sets a completely random amount of days and P has no clue how long they will take. That leaves D with no ability to guess how much time is left over for them to even start organizing their presentation.

Typically we would see a hearing where P&D each has an estimate of how much time they need and all three talk it out and agree on a schedule for trial. I think that’s like bare minimum of what we should expect scheduling to look like. The judge doesn’t just pick random days out of a hat.
 
Good question. I don't know enough about how the judge's office works to know if that would be plausible. I can't imagine many people have that authority. Someone's gonna be in trouble.

Haha just kidding. She'll let it slide.

IMO JMO
I don't think anyone is going to be in trouble. The inmate was vehemently, according to the defense, protesting they would not go. Did the D want to have him forcibly dragged and carried out? Maybe this inmate changed their mind because it was made up information? I'm surprised the D hasn't followed up on this inmate and asked him, on the record, what happened, why wouldn't you come testify? Maybe they did and they didn't like the answer they got and don't want him on the stand anymore but just want to use them third person in trying to get the judge to recuse? I wouldn't put something like that past these lawyers. AJMO
 
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The defense isn’t arguing for more or even equal time to the prosecution. All they want is an adequate amount of time to present their case. The issue is that the judge sets a completely random amount of days and P has no clue how long they will take. That leaves D with no ability to guess how much time is left over for them to even start organizing their presentation.

Typically we would see a hearing where P&D each has an estimate of how much time they need and all three talk it out and agree on a schedule for trial. I think that’s like bare minimum of what we should expect scheduling to look like. The judge doesn’t just pick random days out of a hat.
The judge has not been as cavalier as you make it seem. The prosecution estimates by it's witnesses AND it includes the cross examination the defense will make and redirect. The defense should be able to do the same as their case will be smaller than the prosecution's. Unless the defense is planning that they have to match or exceed the number of witnesses the prosecution puts on?
 
I don't think anyone is going to be in trouble. The inmate was vehemently, according to the defense, protesting they would not go. Did the D want to have him forcibly dragged and carried out? Maybe this inmate changed their mind because it was made up information? I'm surprised the D hasn't followed up on this inmate and asked him, on the record, what happened, why would you come testify? Maybe they did and they didn't like the answer they got and don't want him on the stand anymore but just want to use them third person in trying to get the judge to recuse? I wouldn't put something like that past these lawyers. AJMO

The inmate's behavior isn't the point. The lie, being attributed to Judge Gull, is.

IMO MOO
 
The defense isn’t arguing for more or even equal time to the prosecution. All they want is an adequate amount of time to present their case. The issue is that the judge sets a completely random amount of days and P has no clue how long they will take. That leaves D with no ability to guess how much time is left over for them to even start organizing their presentation.

Typically we would see a hearing where P&D each has an estimate of how much time they need and all three talk it out and agree on a schedule for trial. I think that’s like bare minimum of what we should expect scheduling to look like. The judge doesn’t just pick random days out of a hat.

I wonder if Nick realizes yet that having a hard end date may prevent him from presenting a rebuttal case.
 
It seems some think someone's going to be standing with a stopwatch during this trial and when the times up, that's it, out you all go!

Trials don't work that way thank goodness. It''s more like a guideline has to be set. There has to be something at least carved in wood so the jurors can plan their lives around their jury duty. The judge will certainly adjust if needed and appropriate. Hopefully without losing any jurors if that time increase has to happen.
 
It seems some think someone's going to be standing with a stopwatch during this trial and when the times up, that's it, out you all go!

Trials don't work that way thank goodness. It''s more like a guideline has to be set. There has to be something at least carved in wood so the jurors can plan their lives around their jury duty. The judge will certainly adjust if needed and appropriate. Hopefully without losing any jurors if that time increase has to happen.

Most trials work this way. Judge Gull has made it clear she's never heard of that and will set a clear and definitive stop date, which is why we're even talking about it in the first place. It would be interesting to see what she does, though, if it's 2 days to her deadline and they haven't even started with the defense! I think she'd have to change her mind and experience extending a trial past a deadline for the very first time in her career.

IMO MOO
 
The way a journalist interprets court filings and goings-on isn't fact. If you dig deeper, you'll discover what actually happened.

Expecting the defense team to proceed with a speedy trial just because they said they wanted to ("no take backs!") is not logical when the State withheld so much evidence they could not properly prepare. If the State had provided them with the discovery in a timely manner, we wouldn't be here.

It seems there are a lot of people who think the defense should have proceeded with what they had no matter if they were able to provide an adequate defense or not....RA is guilty anyway, so why does it even matter?

IMO MOO

I'd say anyone's opinion isn't fact
 
Maybe there should be an appreciation thread for defense as some seem to think they walk on water regardless of their antics including the leaking of the girls dead bodies photos from their office.

It would certainly make this thread a lot less toxic for a separate thread on RA and his wonderful misunderstood team:)

IMO


IMO, no one should feel as though they need to leave a thread because of differing opinions. I know I won't just to please other posters who may not see things the way I might. Regardless, that would be up to staff to make a separation...not any of us. We are simply guests in Tricia's house of Websleuth's. All MOO.
 
I come to WS for all comments, with an eye out for those who know the workings of the law since that is not my expertise. I'm open-minded about this Judge for now. Saying Judge G. doesn't want a fair trial, with all caps, is 'a bridge too far', way too soon, as I see it.
I do believe in my original post I indicated “JMO.” And, you are entitled to yours :).
 
Most trials work this way. Judge Gull has made it clear she's never heard of that and will set a clear and definitive stop date, which is why we're even talking about it in the first place. It would be interesting to see what she does, though, if it's 2 days to her deadline and they haven't even started with the defense! I think she'd have to change her mind and experience extending a trial past a deadline for the very first time in her career.

IMO MOO
It's a scheduled timeline, not an end all...IF things come up and more time is needed I'm sooo sure, IF, there's a legitimate need, time will be given. Unfortunately I can tell by what this defense has already said and done, they will always say, we didn't have enough time if RA is convicted. Even if declared innocent though I can see them bragging what a fantastic job they did with the inadequate time given to them. This is of course all just my opinion.
 
It's a scheduled timeline, not an end all...IF things come up and more time is needed I'm sooo sure, IF, there's a legitimate need, time will be given. Unfortunately I can tell by what this defense has already said and done, they will always say, we didn't have enough time if RA is convicted. Even if declared innocent though I can see them bragging what a fantastic job they did with the inadequate time given to them. This is of course all just my opinion.
I would really love if you can provide a link where she makes it clear that this is her stance because everything I've seen says otherwise. Which is why it's even being talked about (because it's so different from what the norm is).

ETA: I sincerely would love to be proved wrong about this.

JMO
 
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Where was JG’s concern when she allowed for the State to continuously drip discovery over the course of many months, discovery that had long been available making it difficult for the D to prepare?? Where was her concern when she delayed everything due to an unlawful disqualification of RA’s counsel that required going to the SCOIN? Where was her concern when they did not transport Baston to testify under subpoena by defense to the abuse RA suffered at Westville that could have facilitated vacating the Safe Keeping Order? It will certainly be interesting to learn whose plate that falls on! JMHO
I remember the P having to motion the D to give them anything, IIRC. But then I guess that was the P's fault...and/or the judge.
 
When I think of the alternate scenario, driving them first (somewhere), JM’s girlfriend’s car comes to mind. He borrowed it and returned it with blood down the side. According to her (See FM), it took a number of car washes to get it all off. JMO
Well that's fiction the D has said yes...but it sounds more like paint or something simular if it took that many washings.
Edited to include: It's all moot because she washed it all away
 
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