Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[girlhasnoname]

This is true. I'm in the camp that doesn't believe all defense attorneys just lie, lie, lie. There'd be no defense attorneys with jobs if that was the case. They'd all be disbarred.

Of course, it sounds like some people do indeed think defense attorneys shouldn't even exist.

IMO MOO

I have a lot of respect for good Defense attorneys and have stated many times they are important and essential to the Judicial Process.

Just not these two, the things they've done and the games they've played are irresponsible and underhanded to say the least.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I do think it's possible, even likely, that they know he won't be safe in Carroll County jail because of who else is involved, who might be in there with him - ie. connections to people on the outside who want to shut RA up permanently, etc. Meaning, my opinion is not that they can't keep him safe because of this crime alone, but because, to quote Doug Carter, all of the "tentacles."

MOO IMO

If anyone wanted RA gone, he'd be gone already. There's plenty of ways and people to do that in jail/prison. If the IDOC is as corrupt as many have suggested and the conspiracy is as great, it would have already happened.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO and MOO the problem lies with some who believe the defense when they say exculpatory evidence was withheld, while others (myself included) do not believe what the defense is selling in that regard. Neither do we believe the fanciful theories outlined in their Franks Motion that started this whole debacle.

From my perspective, it's not "RA is guilty anyway so why does it matter" so much as the defense is full of bullspit, now lets get this thing tried already so a jury can decide. At least that's where I personally land.

Exculpatory evidence was withheld? I call BS!

It is illegal to do that and would get charges dismissed against the defendant. No prosecutor in their right mind would do that.

In the Brian Kohberger case the defense is complaining that possible exculpatory evidence is missing in the cell phone evidence....Pretty common defense tactic.

The Prosecution’s Duty to Disclose Exculpatory Evidence - Carey Law Office

The Brady rule requires that the prosecution disclose material exculpatory evidence. To speak with a seasoned criminal defense lawyer, contact Carey Law Office now.

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The Prosecution’s Duty to Disclose Exculpatory Evidence​

Criminal trials are serious business, and a defendant’s rights are enshrined in law. You have a right to due process. The prosecution is required to play fairly. Playing fairly means if the prosecution has evidence that you didn’t commit the offense charged or evidence that would reasonably be expected to help your defense, the prosecution must disclose that evidence to your criminal defense lawyer.

The Brady rule​

The Brady rule refers to a Supreme Court case called Brady v. Maryland. The case dates back to 1963, and is a due process case under the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. The Supreme Court ruled that when a prosecutor intentionally withholds exculpatory and material evidence from a defendant, that act violates the defendant’s due process rights. The withholding of the information is a “deliberate deception of court and jury.”

 

[sunshineray]

I would really love if you can provide a link where she makes it clear that this is her stance because everything I've seen says otherwise. Which is why it's even being talked about (because it's so different from what the norm is).

ETA: I sincerely would love to be proved wrong about this.

JMO

It's common sense, to me.

 

[TTF14]

It's common sense, to me.

It's common sense to all of us. Just not Judge Gull.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Agree, if she'd said that to the defense.

What?

 

[sunshineray]

It's common sense to all of us. Just not Judge Gull.

IMO MOO

I very much disagree. She's a very well-educated and experienced woman/judge. I'm sure she has loads of common sense. Too bad she had equal parts kindness in dealing with AB&BR. If she hadn't been so concerned for their professional reps she would have had the public hearing that very day right after chambers. She was too kind to those two grossly negligent lawyers, AJMO

 

[Salah11]

I very much disagree. She's a very well-educated and experienced woman/judge. I'm sure she has loads of common sense. Too bad she had equal parts kindness in dealing with AB&BR. If she hadn't been so concerned for their professional reps she would have had the public hearing that very day right after chambers. She was too kind to those two grossly negligent lawyers, AJMO

Yes she tried to actually help them but they <modsnip> who took that kindness as weakness and unfortunately for Judge Gull it spectacularly backfired.

I still don’t believe they will represent him come the trial. Moooooooooo

 

[sunshineray]

Yes she tried to actually help them but they <modsnip> took that kindness as weakness and unfortunately for Judge Gull it spectacularly backfired.

I still don’t believe they will represent him come the trial. Moooooooooo

It's really possible to me also that those two attorneys may not make it to trial. It's not looking good at all for a trial in October either if we've got mean looks and NOT being kidded about a bathroom break makes it into things you want on the record for appeals. MHO

 

[susiQ]

I wonder if the D wasn’t taking such great pains to vigorously defend RA / try to ensure his legal rights aren’t trampled, if people would still complain about them as much or if they’d suggest this is what the accused deserves because they believe in his guilt?

When the alternate defense lawyers had this case, they also had issues with some things eg; they said they would have done their own Frank’s filing which would have been similar to but not entirely the same as the one originally put forward by B & A. I wonder if there would have been the same uproar over whatever they may have argued?

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

Bill Lebrato opens up about accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's trial, alleged inhumane treatment and evidence of white nationalist Odinist involvement.

www.courttv.com

RBBM
IMO you can bet your last dollar there would be the same uproar. My observations tell me the mob want RA convicted regardless of what the truth may be, they don’t want the truth unless it confirms RA is guilty. Nothing less will do! Not even the real truth, the whole truth. If S & L had had the opportunity to rigorously defend RA’s rights (like R & B are) and attempted to have the Safe Keeping Order vacated and gone on to present a SODDI defense (which I am convinced of), they would have suffered the same insults by all those insulting R & B now. So, thankful there are other attorneys in IN and elsewhere that see what the real problems are right now, LE that appear to be acting in bad faith and a judge that is biased beyond belief. Again, all MHO.

 

[Megnut]

This has become tiresome.

The Defense said they were ready.

Based on the information she had, the judge scheduled the trial for three weeks. Factoring time for both sides to present.

Apparently no one objected. At that time.

When the Defense did object, at the 11th hour, they commandeered a readiness hearing iirc to announce to the judge they needed substantially more time. The judge asked for an accounting. It's the State's job to prove guilt BARD. Rare case that a Defense's case in chief would take longer than the State's! The Defense responded by saying they couldn't tell her exactly because blah blah blah missing discovery (wait! I thought they were ready for trial! If they're not ready, why aren't they filing for a continuance? Oh. Because that might look bad, considering they testified UNDER OATH to SCOIN that, if SCION didn't reinstate them as RA's counsel, his right to a speedy trial was in jeopardy. Because they alone were posited to go swiftly to trial. But now they're not. So how do they finagle it so the Court authors the delay? Demand more time because of their suddenly robust Defense which they've yet to substantiate.)

They can't defend needing more time to present their case. As of now, they haven't been able to secure a third-party Defense. They claim they're ready for trial, need more time to present but can't show why, claim there's discovery they haven't received or can't find, want the judge to recuse for old and new reasons, most of which SCION already dismissed/rejected, allege judicial misconduct over hearings they weren't granted (where hearings weren't warranted!).

They are the ones creating acrimony!

IMO they need a reset.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Good Morning !!!

 

[sunshineray]

RBBM
IMO you can bet your last dollar there would be the same uproar. My observations tell me the mob want RA convicted regardless of what the truth may be, they don’t want the truth unless it confirms RA is guilty. Nothing less will do! Not even the real truth, the whole truth. If S & L had had the opportunity to rigorously defend RA’s rights (like R & B are) and attempted to have the Safe Keeping Order vacated and gone on to present a SODDI defense (which I am convinced of), they would have suffered the same insults by all those insulting R & B now. So, thankful there are other attorneys in IN and elsewhere that see what the real problems are right now, LE that appear to be acting in bad faith and a judge that is biased beyond belief. Again, all MHO.

Who are the mob?

 

[FrostedGlass]

RBBM
IMO you can bet your last dollar there would be the same uproar. My observations tell me the mob want RA convicted regardless of what the truth may be, they don’t want the truth unless it confirms RA is guilty. Nothing less will do! Not even the real truth, the whole truth. If S & L had had the opportunity to rigorously defend RA’s rights (like R & B are) and attempted to have the Safe Keeping Order vacated and gone on to present a SODDI defense (which I am convinced of), they would have suffered the same insults by all those insulting R & B now. So, thankful there are other attorneys in IN and elsewhere that see what the real problems are right now, LE that appear to be acting in bad faith and a judge that is biased beyond belief. Again, all MHO.

I was never sure what to make of S&L, since they are from Allen County. The problem L had was not really looked into here, other being mentioned.

It was interesting that they aligned with B&R's attempts to get RA out of prison and intended to carry on with the Franks Memo. That support, coming from a different team, solidified some of my feelings on this case. Plus opinions from other legal experts.

I really didn't like it that JG chose the second team and the jury out of her county. It's probably good that S&L were taken off the case.

All just my opinions.

 

[sunshineray]

This has become tiresome.

The Defense said they were ready.

Based on the information she had, the judge scheduled the trial for three weeks. Factoring time for both sides to present.

Apparently no one objected. At that time.

When the Defense did object, at the 11th hour, they commandeered a readiness hearing iirc to announce to the judge they needed substantially more time. The judge asked for an accounting. It's the State's job to prove guilt BARD. Rare case that a Defense's case in chief would take longer than the State's! The Defense responded by saying they couldn't tell her exactly because blah blah blah missing discovery (wait! I thought they were ready for trial! If they're not ready, why aren't they filing for a continuance? Oh. Because that might look bad, considering they testified UNDER OATH to SCOIN that, if SCION didn't reinstate them as RA's counsel, his right to a speedy trial was in jeopardy. Because they alone were posited to go swiftly to trial. But now they're not. So how do they finagle it so the Court authors the delay? Demand more time because of their suddenly robust Defense which they've yet to substantiate.)

They can't defend needing more time to present their case. As of now, they haven't been able to secure a third-party Defense. They claim they're ready for trial, need more time to present but can't show why, claim there's discovery they haven't received or can't find, want the judge to recuse for old and new reasons, most of which SCION already dismissed/rejected, allege judicial misconduct over hearings they weren't granted (where hearings weren't warranted!).

They are the ones creating acrimony!

IMO they need a reset.

JMO

I believe everything you've said here is the absolute truth. Thank you for stating it so well.

 

[sunshineray]

I was never sure what to make of S&L, since they are from Allen County. The problem L had was not really looked into here, other being mentioned.

It was interesting that they aligned with B&R's attempts to get RA out of prison and intended to carry on with the Franks Memo. That support, coming from a different team, solidified some of my feelings on this case. Plus opinions from other legal experts.

I really didn't like it that JG chose the second team and the jury out of her county. It's probably good that S&L were taken off the case.

All just my opinions.

I believe some of those so-called legal experts are not what they seem at all.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I believe some of those so-called legal experts are not what they seem at all.

The ones who count, IMO, are the ones I can find who have actual cases in Indiana.
I would ignore anyone who would claim to be an attorney but can't be found in MyCase, unless they are arguing on a federal level.

 

[Spartygirl]

RBBM
IMO you can bet your last dollar there would be the same uproar. My observations tell me the mob want RA convicted regardless of what the truth may be, they don’t want the truth unless it confirms RA is guilty. Nothing less will do! Not even the real truth, the whole truth. If S & L had had the opportunity to rigorously defend RA’s rights (like R & B are) and attempted to have the Safe Keeping Order vacated and gone on to present a SODDI defense (which I am convinced of), they would have suffered the same insults by all those insulting R & B now. So, thankful there are other attorneys in IN and elsewhere that see what the real problems are right now, LE that appear to be acting in bad faith and a judge that is biased beyond belief. Again, all MHO.

BBM
There's a mob ????
Who are the "Mob" ????

 

[Salah11]

In the last week I have been called a crazy lunatic and now I’m in a mob because I believe LE have their man.

I’m proud to be in a mob with right minded people who believe RA is Guilty and whose defense team have piled more misery and agony on to the poor victims family while making a Mockery out of this case.

 

[nadia90]

In the last week I have been called a crazy lunatic and now I’m in a mob because I believe LE have their man.

I’m proud to be in a mob with right minded people who believe RA is Guilty and whose defense team have piled more misery and agony on to the poor victims family while making a Mockery out of this case.

Yes, a fellow mob member here