Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[TTF14]

I remember the P having to motion the D to give them anything, IIRC. But then I guess that was the P's fault...and/or the judge.

I have no recollection of that. Do you know what motion it was or can you link it?

 

[sunshineray]

Calling someone a playful name like "ding dong" insinuates familiarity. Camaraderie. Fondness. Not appropriate in a courtroom where she's supposed to at least give the appearance of being unbiased. I've talked to someone who has been in the courtroom and they've said that her tone of voice with the defense is terrible compared to how she talks to the State (but they think it's funny since they're anti-defense). Now, these are seasoned attorneys, so I'm sure they're used to that, as all defense attorneys probably are. It goes with the job. But, they also know, since they are seasoned attorneys, that it's not OK for a judge to appear to be so biased. They've probably filed motions like this before, and know they have to give examples if they are going to allege it. If they didn't give examples, folks would be crying, "Like what?? If she's so biased, give us an example!" They can't win. I doubt the example provided is much different than other examples given by other attorneys in other cases when a judge acts inappropriately chummy with the prosecution. And now it's on the record. And they made a good point about the law stating perceived bias, an appearance of bias. There doesn't have to be hard and fast proof that she IS biased since we can't read her mind. But she's not even supposed to be appearing like she's biased, and at that she has failed. IMO

I'm more interested in what she's going to do about the lie told about Baston. Either she, Tobe Leazenby, or the deputy who wrote the report lied. I really don't think it was her, so she MUST be furious that either Tobe or the deputy lied about what SHE said/instructed. That threatens her reputation as a judge, so she must be spitting nails. I would be if someone put untrue words in my mouth.

We'd expect that anyway. Let's wait and see.

IMO MOO

It could just mean ding dong, hello, TMI...with no fondness attached.

 

[TTF14]

Well that's fiction the D has said yes...but it sounds more like paint or something simular if it took that many washings.
Edited to include: It's all moot because she washed it all away

If it comes directly from the discovery from the prosecution, I fail to see how it's "fiction the D has said." Can you explain?

 

[TTF14]

It could just mean ding dong, hello, TMI...with no fondness attached.

Agree, if she'd said that to the defense.

 

[susiQ]

Most trials work this way. Judge Gull has made it clear she's never heard of that and will set a clear and definitive stop date, which is why we're even talking about it in the first place. It would be interesting to see what she does, though, if it's 2 days to her deadline and they haven't even started with the defense! I think she'd have to change her mind and experience extending a trial past a deadline for the very first time in her career.

IMO MOO

I’d like to know how many times in the past she has set a fixed time for a trial, or, is this something nouvelle she’d like to try out on a high profile case where any number of things can go sideways? SMH

 

[TTF14]

I’d like to know how many times in the past she has set a fixed time for a trial, or, is this something nouvelle she’d like to try out on a high profile case where any number of things can go sideways? SMH

According to her, it's the only way she's ever done it and has never heard of it done any other way. *shrug*

JMO IMO

 

[susiQ]

According to her, it's the only way she's ever done it and has never heard of it done any other way. *shrug*

JMO IMO

I suppose that’s her excuse for not holding hearings as well?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Legal Analyst puts in her .02 cents. This could bring a whole new meaning to "hostile witness"

Defense attorneys in Delphi murders case tell the judge she is now a defense witness

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant Richard Allen want the judge presiding over his trial to step down, and they now have a new reason to seek her recusal: they plan to call her as a witness.

www.21alivenews.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This case is about the murder of two young girls.
It is not about a fabricated and manufactured one-sided feud between the defense and the judge.
Spending two weeks on a document so you can pout because you think she’s making mean faces at you is absurd. It does not advance the case and does nothing to prove RA’s innocence.
The judge is not going to put a stopwatch to the trial and call “time’s up” before everybody has had their fair say. That’s preposterous. Why is that even being discussed? It’s just something to pull out of the “stick it to the judge” bag. It will be put back into the bag at some point so it can be pulled out again so it can all be used AGAIN.
A serious professional defense team, after the SCOIN ruled they could remain, would have gotten down to defending their client, but not these jokers.
They have done more to hurt the girls families than anybody outside of RA himself.

Pesky opinions

 

[Willow Knight]

I couldn’t agree more

I don’t think they care about anybody but themselves here.

It’s all an ego trip, which is why they are trying so desperately to get Judge Gull off the case. They need cameras in the courtroom to further their agenda of trying to make a name for themselves out of this case.

IMO

Excellent point! That didn't cross my mind. They want cameras in the court room.

I keep thinking the defense knows they are going to get a guilty verdict by the evidence they can't get thrown out, so it made no difference if their client sat locked up waiting for trial. The defense sure spends a lot of time preparing for an appeal, IMO.

However with cameras in the court room they can graduate from YouTube stars to TV stars! Wonder if they'll want to play themselves in the movie?

 

[snooptroop88]

Rule 605. Judge’s Competency as a Witness
The presiding judge may not testify as a witness at the trial. A party need not object to preserve the issue.

This is D's way of trying to force recusal down the old warhorse's throat whether she wants to swallow it or not. The D undoubtedly thinks this is another brilliant maneuver like the FM. I really do bet this backfires them in the most ugly way possible because it's too transparent a means of them trying to get the judge out of the way because they know she's not going to jump on their Save Our Rick bandwagon-- which no judge should be doing.

It's the State of Indiana v Richard Allen. It's not the State of Indiana v Odinism, v the judge you don't like, v evidence that suggests your client's guilty, v anyone trying to prove your client did it, or v anyone who doesn't have the same unconditional regard for Ricky that D evidently has. Acting like the trial is an illegitimate exercise of an authoritarian state hellbent on the persecution of Ricky might make great YouTube spots, but the D's becoming increasingly alienated from the process which they themselves are unfortunately a part of. Could I please, please hear something about why I should think RA is not BG-- from this D? Right, please, stop "suppressing," and start "producing." Stop selling this idea that you don't have to produce. You know, you don't, if you don't mind your client spending his life in prison. But you do if you recognize the reality is that your job involves deflecting the P's evidence.

At this point, I half hope she does recuse because the next judge they get is going to know what the court's dealing with and I don't think it's going to be the sunshine and rainbows the D is leading their followers to expect, MOO.

If it suited the D to take it to SCOIN, their writs would already be a reality. As we can see from the FM's aftermath, "game face" doesn't translate real well into professional legal documents and strategy. Stunts tend to go up in a puff of smoke once they meet legal reality, so-- waiting for the "poof." And this time, I bet it really comes.

 

[photographer4]

I wonder if the D wasn’t taking such great pains to vigorously defend RA / try to ensure his legal rights aren’t trampled, if people would still complain about them as much or if they’d suggest this is what the accused deserves because they believe in his guilt?

When the alternate defense lawyers had this case, they also had issues with some things eg; they said they would have done their own Frank’s filing which would have been similar to but not entirely the same as the one originally put forward by B & A. I wonder if there would have been the same uproar over whatever they may have argued?

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

Bill Lebrato opens up about accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's trial, alleged inhumane treatment and evidence of white nationalist Odinist involvement.

www.courttv.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I wonder if the D wasn’t taking such great pains to vigorously defend RA / try to ensure his legal rights aren’t trampled, if people would still complain about them as much or if they’d suggest this is what the accused deserves because they believe in his guilt?

When the alternate defense lawyers had this case, they also had issues with some things eg; they said they would have done their own Frank’s filing which would have been similar to but not entirely the same as the one originally put forward by B & A. I wonder if there would have been the same uproar over whatever they may have argued?

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

Bill Lebrato opens up about accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's trial, alleged inhumane treatment and evidence of white nationalist Odinist involvement.

www.courttv.com

If they put the same fantasy out in a Franks Motion as B and R the same issues would remain and by extension, the same uproar.
It’s not who is hawking this nonsense, it’s the fact that it’s nonsense.
The accused doesn’t “deserve” anything except a serious professional defense team.
I disagree that this defense team is vigorously defending RA’s rights. Explain how whining about the judge not having a pet name for you benefits RA in any way?
Why can’t the defense let this judge grudge go? The SCOIN said JG was not biased and everyone should play on. Why can’t that be done?
A decent defense team would have determined whether RA was guilty or innocent. They would have either negotiated the best deal they could for him or prepared tirelessly for the trial to try and prove his innocence. Not this. This has nothing to do with RA at all.

Opinion

 

[dub]

KAK I believe may be involved. He may even testify. JMO It's really odd to me that KAK has never been mentioned by the D.

RSBM This is really weird to me too, and the only explanation that makes sense to me is that they believe KAK was involved indirectly, but didn’t participate in the actual murders.

If this is the case, and their client RA was directly involved, it seems like bringing KAK into it doesn’t really help the defense and might end up hurting them.

 

[sunshineray]

I have no recollection of that. Do you know what motion it was or can you link it?

 

[sunshineray]

If it comes directly from the discovery from the prosecution, I fail to see how it's "fiction the D has said." Can you explain?

I was referring to the FM

 

[sunshineray]

Agree, if she'd said that to the defense.

But the D didn't answer her question with, I need to use the bathroom lol

 

[sunshineray]

RSBM This is really weird to me too, and the only explanation that makes sense to me is that they believe KAK was involved indirectly, but didn’t participate in the actual murders.

If this is the case, and their client RA was directly involved, it seems like bringing KAK into it doesn’t really help the defense and might end up hurting them.

Yes I agree, which may be why the D wants no part of him?

 

[mrjitty]

If they put the same fantasy out in a Franks Motion as B and R the same issues would remain and by extension, the same uproar.

RSBM - I agree. It was the nature of the Franks that gave me strong feelings about what they were doing. Not the other way round. The revelations around AB's texts with MW only heightened that.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I would really love if you can provide a link where she makes it clear that this is her stance because everything I've seen says otherwise. Which is why it's even being talked about (because it's so different from what the norm is).

ETA: I sincerely would love to be proved wrong about this.

JMO

I'm sorry it's just common sense that if it's appropriate the judge will make time and like I said hopefully not lose any jurors. IMO the defense in this case is throwing everything and the kitchen sink. Some common sense with things would be nice...at least once in awhile. The "ding dong" comment being brought up in an offical document meant to preserve things for the record, for appeals just shows how low they will go.

Of course they will have time to present a defense if needed. The judge is not a moron, a wcked witch nor bias but she also won't let either side ramble and pad the witnesses for show. She's going to run a tight ship and have them stay on course. This D, IMO, will disrespect the court every chance they get and make this the most difficult they can...why? Because that is their strategy, they have no case. But because JG is not bias and a good judge she will make sure RA has his adequate days in court even though he chose to keep inadequate and negligent attorneys. AJMO