Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[steeltowngirl]

Sorry @steeltowngirl! I didn't mean to imply that you personally expected an answer from me. I just don't think anyone necessarily has to be tied to any particular theory, pro defense or pro prosecution.

I really don't have an opinion on the defense motive on that issue. Maybe they learned something we aren't privy to through more informal investigation. The purpose of a Franks motion, as you know, is to contest the validity of the arrest warrant. At the time of the first, they may have entertained that theory, and moved on to another or a more specific theory. In my opinion, they included the theory to give context as to why they felt the affidavit was misleading.

At the end of the day, none of us here knows the actual facts of the case to a certainty, and my only reasoning for speaking about the Holocaust was to illustrate that it isn't out of the realm of possibility that a white supremacist would kill another white person. It does occur, and it doesn't necessarily need to be tied to ritual at all. For all I know, white supremacists may require a ritual for their own interpretation of their religion. I'm not a white supremacist, just an old Deadhead lawyer, so I have no knowledge at all of their practices. B & R likely didn't either going into this trial, so I don't expect them to be experts on the matter.

We will learn in time, I feel.

Deadheads are good with me!
Lawyers… not so much.

But no time for lawyer jokes now.
I have a mob to look after.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't think that's what happened here, but generally speaking, a sacrifice isn't a sacrifice unless it's something valuable to you.

JMO MOO

Not really true historically of ritual human sacrifice. Usually the ones with the power choose from the ones without, not those considered of their own station. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Sorry @steeltowngirl! I didn't mean to imply that you personally expected an answer from me. I just don't think anyone necessarily has to be tied to any particular theory, pro defense or pro prosecution.

I really don't have an opinion on the defense motive on that issue. Maybe they learned something we aren't privy to through more informal investigation. The purpose of a Franks motion, as you know, is to contest the validity of the arrest warrant. At the time of the first, they may have entertained that theory, and moved on to another or a more specific theory. In my opinion, they included the theory to give context as to why they felt the affidavit was misleading.

At the end of the day, none of us here knows the actual facts of the case to a certainty, and my only reasoning for speaking about the Holocaust was to illustrate that it isn't out of the realm of possibility that a white supremacist would kill another white person. It does occur, and it doesn't necessarily need to be tied to ritual at all. For all I know, white supremacists may require a ritual for their own interpretation of their religion. I'm not a white supremacist, just an old Deadhead lawyer, so I have no knowledge at all of their practices. B & R likely didn't either going into this trial, so I don't expect them to be experts on the matter.

We will learn in time, I feel.

I'd love to know, only if you'd like to share, what your take was on the "Accused's Response to this Court's May 31, 2024 "Order of Judgement of the Court" and Notice of Conflict" filing? TIA if you'd like ti share, no worries if not.

 

[grannygates]

No coincidence; no lengthy history according to your links provided:

In prehistoric times a total of 5 human sacrifices in wells specifically. Nothing present day; not at all alike Delphi.

Prehistoric period (until 1050 AD) /

The Viking Age /

Religion, magic, death and rituals /

At Trelleborg a sacrificial site was found from the time before the Viking fortress was erected in 980-81. In five c. 3 metre-deep wells human and animal skeletons were found, together with jewellery and tools. Of the total of five human sacrifices, four were young children aged between 4 and 7.

It is very significant that the skeletons were found in wells. The Vikings attributed great symbolic importance to wells.
>>
When the fortress was constructed (980-981 AD), the cult site was dismantled and the sacrifices stopped.
>>
Human sacrifices?


Appears the Odin are favorable of young girls and celebrate them. No mention of sacrifice quite opposite in fact.
Again your link stating so:

>>>

Bryggen Rune Stick
Freyja, Goddess of Love & War​

Alternatively, you could offer up a prayer or deed to Freyja, the Norse goddess of love. Set up an altar to Freyja using her symbols: cat figures, amber, honey, sweet meads and wines, and delectable pastries. It may not seem very Viking, but for Freyja, the sweeter, the better. Freyja is a great goddess for young women, so consider helping or spending time with the important ladies in your life– your sisters, your girlfriends, or even a significant other.

>>>

Valisblot: Norse Valentine’s Day

Norse Valentine’s Day? If it sounds too good to be true, that’s because it kind of is. Vali The truth is, the Norse didn’t really have what you and I might consider a Valentine’s Day. They had a patron goddess of love, but she’s also the patron goddess of war. So, take that with a grain of...

www.alehorn.com

all imo

the other links provide more information regarding the history of blots as well as general research outside of the few links provided. the link referenced in your response was regarding the coinciding FEB14 pagan holiday. My "coincidence" is whether a suggested pagan ritual was performed on a pagan holiday by self-proclaimed pagans or did a random stranger with no connection to the victims, crime scene or pagans, just so happen to mimic all of the above by pure chance. I wasn't there so I don't know what happened and I wont pretend to know, but it's another one to add to the "coincidence" pile of this case.

 

[sunshineray]

There were about six million or so white people killed by another white supremacy group back in the 1940's.

A bit different to what is being discussed here but yes indeed they were.

 

[Jade]

the other links provide more information regarding the history of blots as well as general research outside of the few links provided. the link referenced in your response was regarding the coinciding FEB14 pagan holiday. My "coincidence" is whether a suggested pagan ritual was performed on a pagan holiday by self-proclaimed pagans or did a random stranger with no connection to the victims, crime scene or pagans, just so happen to mimic all of the above by pure chance. I wasn't there so I don't know what happened and I wont pretend to know, but it's another one to add to the "coincidence" pile of this case.

Its going to be a big pile of it if you gonna add in a rare occurrences from around 981 AD with nothing in common to the Delphi crime scene.

The Feb 14th pagan holiday from that link states nothing but love; the sweeter the better for the great goddess for young women.


>>>
From a statistical perspective, coincidences are inevitable and often less remarkable than they may appear intuitively. Usually, coincidences are chance events with underestimated probability.[3]
>>
Coincidence - Wikipedia


all imo

 

[tlcya]

Its going to be a big pile of it if you gonna add in a rare occurrences from around 981 AD with nothing in common to the Delphi crime scene.

The Feb 14th pagan holiday from that link states nothing but love; the sweeter the better for the great goddess for young women.


>>>
From a statistical perspective, coincidences are inevitable and often less remarkable than they may appear intuitively. Usually, coincidences are chance events with underestimated probability.[3]
>>
Coincidence - Wikipedia


all imo

I am not convinced the crime scene mimics anything other than an HBO series that aired in January of 2014. I am probably in the minority as I haven't seen the crime scene photos that were leaked and have no desire to until trial. But based on descriptions of what they allegedly depict I am not convinced the crime scene wasn't staged by someone who watched that series.

 

[grannygates]

Its going to be a big pile of it if you gonna add in a rare occurrences from around 981 AD with nothing in common to the Delphi crime scene.

The Feb 14th pagan holiday from that link states nothing but love; the sweeter the better for the great goddess for young women.


>>>
From a statistical perspective, coincidences are inevitable and often less remarkable than they may appear intuitively. Usually, coincidences are chance events with underestimated probability.[3]
>>
Coincidence - Wikipedia


all imo

Valisblot: Norse Valentine’s Day

Norse Valentine’s Day? If it sounds too good to be true, that’s because it kind of is. Vali The truth is, the Norse didn’t really have what you and I might consider a Valentine’s Day. They had a patron goddess of love, but she’s also the patron goddess of war. So, take that with a grain of...

www.alehorn.com

The modern religion of Asatru, a form of heathenry that celebrates the old Norse gods, decided to fill the gap left by Valentine’s Day with Valisblot. Valisblot is named for Vali, Odin’s youngest son, who is born, grows to manhood in a day, and avenges the murder of his brother, Baldr. Unlike Odin and Thor, Vali survives Ragnarok and is sort of a representation of new hope for the Norse. This is not really a day of romance, although some celebrants of Asatru blend in the day’s meaning with that of Valentine’s Day.

Rather, it’s a day of remembrance and vengeance. Just as spring begins to blossom forth from the ground, winter must die. And with it, the traditions that kept away the bleak and cold of the long, Scandinavian nights.

While this is a blot, or a sacrificial feast, many celebrants of Asatru prefer to eat a simple, cold meal instead.

 

[grannygates]

Its going to be a big pile of it if you gonna add in a rare occurrences from around 981 AD with nothing in common to the Delphi crime scene.

The Feb 14th pagan holiday from that link states nothing but love; the sweeter the better for the great goddess for young women.


>>>
From a statistical perspective, coincidences are inevitable and often less remarkable than they may appear intuitively. Usually, coincidences are chance events with underestimated probability.[3]
>>
Coincidence - Wikipedia


all imo

I’m not sure how much you’ve researched the information in the franks motion but it is all publicly available.

 

[susiQ]

I am not convinced the crime scene mimics anything other than an HBO series that aired in January of 2014. I am probably in the minority as I haven't seen the crime scene photos that were leaked and have no desire to until trial. But based on descriptions of what they allegedly depict I am not convinced the crime scene wasn't staged by someone who watched that series.

Possibly BH watched that very HBO series seeing he mimicked it on his FB page too?? Or, he spent too much time hanging out with PW?? JMO

 

[Salah11]

I’m not sure how much you’ve researched the information in the franks motion but it is all publicly available.

If you do decide to read Frank’s motion, if you haven’t already, I suggest drinking a warm glass of milk or coco and reading it just before bed, as it reads like a fairytale.

@Jade in response to you reading it. Just my helpful hint for you

Moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

RSBM/BBm
We saw this word “ding dong” interpreted by one of our esteemed members as being “disrespectful” when they thought it was directed at defense but then flipped to “playful” when it was discovered it was directed at prosecution. Nothing else had changed about the phrase, the setting or the speaker of the phrase.

RSBM for focus.

I believe the esteemed member admitted they had read it wrong. AND then asked if JG was playing or if she was serious.

 

[sunshineray]

I’m not sure how much you’ve researched the information in the franks motion but it is all publicly available.

I wonder how much the D's lawyers researched before writing that FM? It's especially curious, less than a month before trial was scheduled to begin, one of them was calling around for someone in the know of what they'd already claimed to know in that FM. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Possibly BH watched that very HBO series seeing he mimicked it on his FB page too?? Or, he spent too much time hanging out with PW?? JMO

Nothing like what was described by the defense in the FM. MO and I just recently watched that show's first season.

 

[tlcya]

Nothing like what was described by the defense in the FM. MO and I just recently watched that show's first season.

That's part of my point. What is described in the FM is not something I can see for myself. I can't verify if the similarities to odinism they allege even exist because I haven't seen the photos on which they claim to rely.

So I am left with my impression of their FM being strictly based on their presentation of those allegations and in all my years, I cannot say I have ever read a motion so, er fanciful and fantastical. I am used to dry legal documents. IMO That FM was completely unprofessional. That is simply my own opinion.

It wasn't written for a judge, it was written for us, the public. And that right there burns my chaps. it was an end run around the gag order. I cannot be convinced otherwise.

 

[AugustWest]

I'd love to know, only if you'd like to share, what your take was on the "Accused's Response to this Court's May 31, 2024 "Order of Judgement of the Court" and Notice of Conflict" filing? TIA if you'd like ti share, no worries if not.

I'm not sure exactly how to answer this, but I do think the response served a purpose. First, the defense needed to make a record of their perceived grievances and did so by motion since they feel Gull isn't adequately or accurately keeping the record. If you don't raise certain issues during the trial phase, then the issues can be considered to be "waived." They won't be considered on appeal. Thus the need for an accurate record. It's no big secret and won't come as a shock that a larger-than-usual number of issues on appeal are coming should RA be convicted. I'm not even sure that an interlocutory appeal isn't on the way.

Second, as to Gull being a witness, this certainly could become an issue...the discrepancies in her statements and LE's statements seem pretty clear. This makes it a question of whether LE acted in bad faith. To determine whether LE is and has acted in bad faith is a fact question. This would clearly be a conflict; you can't make a finding of fact on your own credibility.

This case is wild.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'm not sure exactly how to answer this, but I do think the response served a purpose. First, the defense needed to make a record of their perceived grievances and did so by motion since they feel Gull isn't adequately or accurately keeping the record. If you don't raise certain issues during the trial phase, then the issues can be considered to be "waived." They won't be considered on appeal. Thus the need for an accurate record. It's no big secret and won't come as a shock that a larger-than-usual number of issues on appeal are coming should RA be convicted. I'm not even sure that an interlocutory appeal isn't on the way.

Second, as to Gull being a witness, this certainly could become an issue...the discrepancies in her statements and LE's statements seem pretty clear. This makes it a question of whether LE acted in bad faith. To determine whether LE is and has acted in bad faith is a fact question. This would clearly be a conflict; you can't make a finding of fact on your own credibility.

This case is wild.

Thanks. Great explanation.

Can JG deny the interlocutory appeal without a hearing?
Can she deny it even if she allows a hearing?

 

[grannygates]

If you haven’t even researched any of the claims in the FM, how could you have an opinion on how realistic it is? That doesn’t make any sense.

We have the FBI BAU, Purdue & Harvard professor and the Click/FBI terrorism crew all saying this is an option.

The only people saying that the odinists isn’t an option are the LE that destroyed all of the evidence of the experts who said it is an option.

I’m in a twilight zone.

 

[AugustWest]

Thanks. Great explanation.

Can JG deny the interlocutory appeal without a hearing?
Can she deny it even if she allows a hearing?

@FrostedGlass

An interlocutory appeal would be filed directly with the appellate court (not sure if to criminal court of appeals or S.C. in Indiana). Defense would motion for, say, recusal, then Gull would have to make a final decision on it by order, then interlocutory appeal of the order. There must be an order by Gull, as the appellate court would deem the issue "not ripe" as attorneys call it. This means the issue hasn't yet become final and would require a court to make an advisory opinion on the matter, which courts won't entertain.

Here is more on the ripeness doctrine:

Ripeness Doctrine: Overview

www.law.cornell.edu

And here is how the process works in Oklahoma:

Interlocutory Appeals in Oklahoma: What, When and How - Oklahoma Bar Association

Oklahoma Bar Journal Interlocutory Appeals in Oklahoma: What, When and How By Chase McBride “An interlocutory order is an order which is not ‘final,’ does not culminate in a judgment [and] leaves the parties before the tribunal to try the issues on the merits...”1 An interlocutory appeal is an...

www.okbar.org

I'll try to find some time to see about the process in Indiana for you, as I'm pretty sure it is your home state. Hope this helps!

 

[AugustWest]

If you haven’t even researched any of the claims in the FM, how could you have an opinion on how realistic it is? That doesn’t make any sense.

We have the FBI BAU, Purdue & Harvard professor and the Click/FBI terrorism crew all saying this is an option.

The only people saying that the odinists isn’t an option are the LE that destroyed all of the evidence of the experts who said it is an option.

I’m in a twilight zone.

I've never understood the argument that defense is pulling "Odinism" out of thin air, and that it is pure fan fiction. Law enforcement made it an issue by considering it during investigation. Was it fan fiction when law enforcement investigated it also?