CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #23

[Lexiintoronto]

I find it rather odd that I agreed to allow Kevin to have the judge release the Q+A the lasted over 3 hrs with Detective B. Price at 31 division. I believe the transcript would be most interesting! Yet….he’s not taken this opportunity. I make a number of accusations, state quite a few unknown facts at that time and generally stick my thumbs in Price’s eyes. There was no doubt when l left the police station that this entire investigation was a sham and he knew Barry killed her and hung himself. I believe the entire Websleuths community would find my answers, provocations and commentary most interesting!

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Canadian police interview transcript or video released except if the subject has been found guilty of the crime being discussed.

KD said he believes there’s a large redacted section in the affidavits that is about you. I’m pretty sure he has said he asked the courts to unseal the information. IIRC, his argument was that you’ve told everyone that you were interviewed by police, you’ve told your story many times to the media and it’s likely that other witnesses may have mentioned you as a possible POI.

The only telling part in your police interview may be what questions Detective Sergeant Price asked you, imo. I wonder if he was looking for some small details that may have been important. Like, when was the last time you were close to the Old Colony area, or if you ever were in their home. (One witness said you had been in the home, but you have said you were never in 50 Old Colony.)

 

[dotr]

'Mar 29, 2023 The No Good, Terribly Kind, Wonderful Lives and Tragic Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman l Full Podcast
After a notorious 2018 interview on CBC television, Kerry Winter became a familiar figure in the tale of the Shermans’ deaths. “The Cousin Did It” wasn’t just a snappy headline on the cover of The National Enquirer, it also became a favourite theory. Yet Kerry is not a suspect. And all these years later the humiliation, anger, and deep sadness Kerry feels towards his cousin Barry are still right on the surface. How did such a good thing go so bad, and why is Kerry so certain Barry killed Honey then killed himself? Was a man capable of “ripping off little orphans” also capable of killing his own wife? And himself?'

 

[fadedglitter]

The affidavits don’t include police interview transcripts, nor would they. A police interview transcript would be hundreds of pages, and there have been many interviews in this case.

The police have created summaries, and they extract relevant details from those summaries to support whatever their current application is. For example, if they are seeking a search warrant, they will include relevant details to show they have met the legal standard to search that place.

KD has been seeking to unseal pretty much everything on the court file. He doesn’t need the permission of anyone who was interviewed, nor does he decide what the judge will do (although at times his arguments have persuaded the judge to unseal certain sections).

Anyone who wants KD to know what they told the police can just call KD up and tell him about it. Numerous witnesses have done exactly that.

 

[FPoulet]

Re KW, I think it is also important to note that telling things to police — whether theories, allegations, or perceived facts — does not make them true.

If KW feels he has important facts, he is welcome to share them directly including on this site. Or perhaps he has been told to keep them quiet by police. Either way, KD should not be blamed for not providing this information. KD is not the gatekeeper of KW.

 

[WINDSOR]

It appears that KW, drops in randomly to this forum, restates his M/S theory and leaves. He appears not to be interested in addressing any members questions or queries. Is it time to move on from the M/S theory?

 

[branmuffin]

Except, I do not believe Barry would have been a valid witness, Barry would have insisted the will be drawn up by a lawyer, and that lawyer would have a copy on file in his office.

To assume, Barry would have used a will kit from online, or from Staples, had Honey sign it, and then witness himself is not realistic to me.

I agree it's not realistic. Barry could be miserly about certain things like vehicles, clothes and jewelry and didn't like to spend the money on those items. However, he spent with wild abandon when a subject piqued his interest, like Grade C movies made with a character who probably represented his alter ego. When it came to his own business he dotted his i's and crossed his t's.

 

[branmuffin]

A will that’s not signed and witnessed is not a will.

If a lawyer had a signed and witnessed will in their files, they would have provided it to the executors. I agree that Honey’s will could have been very simple and relatively short, if it existed. With no evidence that it existed, I believe it did not exist.

A will that never surfaces could be because the executor may have a conflict of interest.

 

[branmuffin]

Are you thinking that the killers destroyed her will?

I would be shocked if Honey kept her will at home, or had taken it home for execution.

Why would you be shocked? They were billionaires who rarely turned on their security cameras. They left their doors and windows unlocked. They had high profiles of being extremely generous in charity donations advertising their wealth but never took normal precautions that most extremely wealthy people would do to ensure their own safety.

 

[WINDSOR]

I do not believe the TPS has actually designated the Sherman investigation a 'Cold Case'. That would imply to me that it is still an active investigation. If so I am curious why there have been no updates from the TPS regarding the status of the investigation.

Even if TPS stated 'it is an ongoing and active investigation, and we continue to collect evidence prior to the laying charges.' I believe it would give some comfort to friends of the Sherman's to see things progressing.

 

[Rush4087]

'Mar 29, 2023 The No Good, Terribly Kind, Wonderful Lives and Tragic Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman l Full Podcast
After a notorious 2018 interview on CBC television, Kerry Winter became a familiar figure in the tale of the Shermans’ deaths. “The Cousin Did It” wasn’t just a snappy headline on the cover of The National Enquirer, it also became a favourite theory. Yet Kerry is not a suspect. And all these years later the humiliation, anger, and deep sadness Kerry feels towards his cousin Barry are still right on the surface. How did such a good thing go so bad, and why is Kerry so certain Barry killed Honey then killed himself? Was a man capable of “ripping off little orphans” also capable of killing his own wife? And himself?'

Jmo, but I think the podcast author quoted above (JG?) employs a logical fallacy in the form of a “complex statement” (an often used example of such debate tactic is:“when was the last time you beat your wife?”) in the sentence in the middle of the post beginning with “And all these years later..”.

I do recall reading where KW said that BS’s actions had hurt him, and that he saw it as a betrayal. But I’m not sure KW ever felt or admitted that he felt “humiliation” towards his cousin Barry. Idk. Maybe by the words of the court..

And, if KW ever used the term “deep sadness” to describe his feelings toward BS I think it was perhaps stated more for effect and to advance his cause. Again, jmo. I could more easily accept that KW had (in the past) experienced emotions such as “anger”, “hatred” and “rage”. A decapitated head rolling across the parking lot indeed. Not sure how he feels about BS these days.

I also think that KW might suggest a rephrasing of the podcast author’s rhetorical question at the end of the post above to: “Would a man capable of “ripping off little orphans” be INcapable of killing his own wife and then himself?” Jmo.

In the prequel to the same podcast episode, the author states that BS was both “loved and loathed”. There were also billions at stake for several (possibly many) related parties.

I don’t know what happened at the Sherman home that night, but I have always felt that whatever happened, it somehow fit with BS’s views on life as he expressed them in his unfinished memoir “Legacy of Thoughts” - which I interpreted to be: “each man for himself; everybody is only in it for their own self gain and happiness”

All jmo

 

[WINDSOR]

If "“each man for himself; everybody is only in it for their own self gain and happiness” this really was Barry's view of life, I feel sadness for Barry as he could not have been a very happy or contented man. History is full of examples of people who lived for self-gain and grasping for what they believed could bring them happiness, only to end in despair.

Honestly I do not think Barry was that narrow minded or selfish. He was persevering, and tenacious, and he was generous to others based on his own criteria. I also agree that Barry had a realistic view of life and especially if he knew his killers, what happened would have made sense to him.

 

[FromGermany1]

It appears that KW, drops in randomly to this forum, restates his M/S theory and leaves. He appears not to be interested in addressing any members questions or queries. Is it time to move on from the M/S theory?

bbm
Do we have this theory (IF we have it) only because of KW's statements? The M/S-theory makes a lot of sense, IMO. The "helper" is missing yet, who had to have been there for staging the scene, but otherwise it seems so very logical to me. Barry had had enough that evening, after the architect meeting and in the midst of the home-selling and after days of possible debates with Honey and who-knows-who-else about money/buying/selling/giving away to MS/their ungrateful children/their LWs. Barry's life at 75 should have been turned inside out - and he maybe thought, it would be for nothing. If Honey felt different and was fulfilled by her own (giant) plans, the potential for BIG anger and dispute was given. MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

Murder/suicide was one theory the police pursued in the first few weeks of their investigation.

An ITO dated “14th day of January 2018” states:
“As detailed below, I have reasonable grounds to believe that Honey
SHERMAN was murdered, and that Bernard SHERMAN was either murdered or committed suicide. At this point in the investigation, investigators are trying to determine who is responsible for their deaths.”

And:

“(h) Dr. PICKUP advised investigators that there are three possible outcomes in regards to
this investigation. They are:
i. A double suicide
ii. A murder suicide
iii. A double murder
(i) The [REDACTED] makes the deaths suspicious. At this point I believe the death of Honey SHERMAN was a murder and that the death of Bernard SHERMAN is either a murder or suicide.
(j) I do not believe that the deaths of both Honey and Bernard SHERMAN can be attributed to a double suicide as it appeared that they were both living a happy life with no financial difficulties and no known mental illnesses. Family members advised that there has been no previous suicide attempts and no self-harm in the past for both Honey SHERMAN and Bernard SHERMAN.
(k) So far in the investigation, there has been no indication that either Bernard SHERMAN or Honey SHERMAN harboured any hostility towards each other and there is no documented history, with police, of any domestic violence. They were making plans for the future together as they had a trip to Florida scheduled and were in the process of having a new home built. The SHERMAN children indicated that their parents did not get along when they were younger, however they also said that their parents’ relationship had improved recently and they appeared to be getting along. No persons interviewed so far have indicated that there was infidelity in the relationship.
(l) At this point in the investigation, I believe that Honey SHERMAN was murdered.
However, further investigation is required to determine if either Bernard SHERMAN
caused Honey SHERMAN’s death or if other person(s) are responsible for both their
deaths.
For the aforementioned reasons, I believe that the investigation in Honey SHERMAN’s death is a homicide investigation and the investigation into the death of Bernard SHERMAN is either an investigation into a suicide or a homicide investigation as well.”

In a later ITO (February 8, 2018) police eliminated this theory and stated it was a double murder:

“ In a previous application I had stated that I believed that Honey SHERMAN was
murdered and Bernard SHERMAN was either murdered or committed suicide. In this
application I state that I have reasonable grounds to believe that Bernard SHERMAN was murdered as well and my grounds to believe are as follows: [REDACTED]”

 

[FromGermany1]

In a later ITO (February 8, 2018) police eliminated this theory and stated it was a double murder:

“ In a previous application I had stated that I believed that Honey SHERMAN was
murdered and Bernard SHERMAN was either murdered or committed suicide. In this
application I state that I have reasonable grounds to believe that Bernard SHERMAN was murdered as well and my grounds to believe are as follows: [REDACTED]”

bbm
I would like to know ....

 

[fadedglitter]

We will find out eventually. There are five redacted subsections so it’s not just one single piece of evidence that leads police to think that.

Ultimately, I think we can safely assume the police investigated the M/S theory and discarded it because within the first few weeks, the evidence showed it was a double murder.

 

[ldlager]

We will find out eventually. There are five redacted subsections so it’s not just one single piece of evidence that leads police to think that.

Ultimately, I think we can safely assume the police investigated the M/S theory and discarded it because within the first few weeks, the evidence showed it was a double murder.

Not the first few weeks. It took them six weeks!

 

[ldlager]

There Are Imponderables: The Strange Case of Barry Sherman | Free Inquiry

“I find no inconsistency in holding intellectually that life has no meaning, while at the same time being highly motivated to survive and to achieve.” —Barr ...

secularhumanism.org

 

[FromGermany1]

There Are Imponderables: The Strange Case of Barry Sherman | Free Inquiry

“I find no inconsistency in holding intellectually that life has no meaning, while at the same time being highly motivated to survive and to achieve.” —Barr ...

secularhumanism.org

Underlying Donovan’s dogged persistence in keeping the case active is a childlike enthusiasm. In a new documentary on the case, told through his perspective, he reflects on the various legal hurdles. “When someone tells me I can’t see something,” he says, “it’s usually one of the best days of my life because I know I’m going to try and see whatever they don’t want me to see.” In a note of symmetry, Donovan’s appetite for life and achievement, as well as his effective utilization of the courts, resembles that of the central character in this story, the late Barry Sherman. In a more sinister note of symmetry, it’s the beleaguered Toronto Police Service who have perhaps taken on elements of the Court of Star Chamber, at least as it relates to caprice and a breathtaking lack of oversight and accountability processes.
-.-.-
bbm
I just thought of the same, when I was reading the paragraph. Just like Barry!

 

[WINDSOR]

Just visited the TPS web site on Homicide cases.

https://www.tps.ca/organizational-chart/specialized-operations-command/detective-operations/investigative-services/homicide/

I was amazed how many unsolved cases and cold cases were listed. It is my understanding the cold cases do not have any investigators assigned to the case while unsolved cases have a detective assigned.
The Sherman case is listed 'unsolved'.
We all read about numbers of murders, but when you see the victims photos, it has an impact.

 

[ldlager]

I go there regularly to check if it has been transferred from active to a cold case. TPS likely too embarrassed to actually reclassify it, but the Sherman case certainly appears to be dead. And the killer(s) and their sponsor live life as normal.