NY NY - Sneha Ann Philip, 31, New York City, 10 Sep 2001

[Hausos]

Didn't want to start a new thread for JL (there is no existing thread). However, this 9/11 MP case is worth noting in & of itself and in relation to the SP case. I.e., it is strongly suspected that JL also perished in the 9/11 attacks, even though he hasn't been found either.

It seems evident that the reason the JL case got the coverage that it did was due to his being married to the then-Mayor of Poughkeepsie, NY. Conversely, almost all other 9/11 MP cases received little to no media attention.

And, I don't think he used the horrific events of 9/11 as an opportunity to "skip town" and start a new life for himself, either.

Here's an old article, but since his unknown status is unchanged it's still relevant:

9/11, a Man Went to Work. His Fate Is a Mystery. (Published 2002)

Juan Lafuente, Cuban immigrant who lived with his wife in Poughkeepsie, where his wife served as Mayor, vanished without trace on morning of Sept 11, and his fate is a mystery; although he worked about eight blocks from World Trade Center, neither his wife nor his colleagues at Citibank, where...

www.nytimes.com

There's plenty of witnesses/anecdotal evidence that JL was actually near or in the towers. A guest overheard JL stating he was going to attend a meeting at the WTC. The morning of 9/11, he was very close to the WTC. He boarded the train at around 8:06am. Flyers for a conference in the WTC on that day were in his office.

Meanwhile there is still nothing to suggest Sneha was anywhere near the WTC that morning. I am not trying to be rude but I also doubt Sneha is the type of good samaritan to render aid at the site of 9/11, because from Ron's accounts it seems like she was pushed into the medical field by her family, she had a lot of alcohol issues at work, poor attendance, poor behavior, and her contract wasn't renewed at her workplace. Ofc I'm sure everyone would like to believe it... but, just thinking about Sneha's personality... I don't think she would be jumping into action to render aid. JMO.

 

[GatorFL]

There's plenty of witnesses/anecdotal evidence that JL was actually near or in the towers. A guest overheard JL stating he was going to attend a meeting at the WTC. The morning of 9/11, he was very close to the WTC. He boarded the train at around 8:06am. Flyers for a conference in the WTC on that day were in his office.

Meanwhile there is still nothing to suggest Sneha was anywhere near the WTC that morning. I am not trying to be rude but I also doubt Sneha is the type of good samaritan to render aid at the site of 9/11, because from Ron's accounts it seems like she was pushed into the medical field by her family, she had a lot of alcohol issues at work, poor attendance, poor behavior, and her contract wasn't renewed at her workplace. Ofc I'm sure everyone would like to believe it... but, just thinking about Sneha's personality... I don't think she would be jumping into action to render aid. JMO.

IMO you’re discounting both family’s statements who said she would run to help and her years of training. She was, after all, a medical doctor who was an internal medicine resident. These doctors are emergency room doctors. In other words, she had the perfect training to render aid to those at Ground Zero.

 

[shesfixingherhair]

It means nothing that there is no proof she was in the Towers when the attacks occurred. There are still a lot of people that are suspected to have died during the attacks whose remains have not been located.

Other than Juan Lafuente, everyone else declared to have died in the attacks had confirmed reason to be at the place and time where they happened. People whose remains have not been identified don’t just end up on the list of victims because they live four blocks away. Their situations are more along the lines of “employee at a 9-5 job in the South Tower who had breakfast with their spouse that morning before leaving for work and didn’t come home that evening.”

 

[Hausos]

IMO you’re discounting both family’s statements who said she would run to help and her years of training. She was, after all, a medical doctor who was an internal medicine resident. These doctors are emergency room doctors. In other words, she had the perfect training to render aid to those at Ground Zero.

Internal medicine doctors are not emergency doctors, unless Sneha did a dual residency. Ron was an emergency doctor. He still practices emergency medicine in California. Internal medicine is a completely different specialty. But this isn't the issue.

I doubt Sneha's family a lot. They've already lied regarding her. It seems it was their mission to paint her in the best possible light to "save face", so just because her family said she would run and help doesn't mean she would actually do so.

 

[threesevenninefour]

While I have extensively researched this case for years, I’m still torn about whether I believe Sneha died the evening of 9/10 while out or on 9/11 at the WTC. I’ve heard convincing arguments for both angles, but what I definitely don’t believe is that her family or husband had anything to do with it. People like to point out the untruths that they may have told during the early stages of the investigation, but they have admitted to lying about certain aspects in order to get “eyes” on the case and attention paid to them that they otherwise would not have been able to get in those hectic weeks after 9/11. From what I have seen, they have deeply grieved the loss of their daughter/sister/wife and continue to do so year after year. I just feel bad for them because I’m sure in the back of their minds they have their own doubts that still nag away at them, even after having her declared dead in the attacks.

MOO.

 

[Hausos]

John told a detective he walked in on Sneha and his girlfriend having sex and later he took back that statement. The family has a history of trying to "save face" and reputation.

 

[SimplyCass]

The family fought to have her listed as a victim of 9/11. A court overruled this and her name was taken off the memorial. Then, the family hired people and fought in court again to have her declared as a victim so her name could be on the memorial (which it now is). There is still no evidence she has died as a result of the 9/11 attacks.

(SBM) Since the 9/11 victims compensation fund had already been dispersed, the family did not receive money for Sneha being declared a 9/11 victim. IMO, their efforts were part of their process to "close a chapter" (loosely speaking) in the grieving process.

 

[branmuffin]

IMO you’re discounting both family’s statements who said she would run to help and her years of training. She was, after all, a medical doctor who was an internal medicine resident. These doctors are emergency room doctors. In other words, she had the perfect training to render aid to those at Ground Zero.

I'm more likely to believe the contemporaneous reports of her coworkers who said she wasn't good at her job, cut corners, was ambivalent about her work, her many infractions, her work ethic, etc. that leads me to believe she'd be the last doctor to run towards danger.

 

[Hausos]

(SBM) Since the 9/11 victims compensation fund had already been dispersed, the family did not receive money for Sneha being declared a 9/11 victim. IMO, their efforts were part of their process to "close a chapter" (loosely speaking) in the grieving process.

I don't think money is that much of a driving force. If they didn't declare her a victim, they wouldn't have gotten money either.

I'm of South Asian descent too (although from the Northwest meanwhile Sneha is southern) and saving face/reputation is very important in our communities.

Sneha also has a unique character imo.

According to police records, she accused her neighbor and former colleague of assault. She barged into his apartment and refused to leave. She called him at work and then she called his wife at home---multiple times a day. She reportedly told him, "If I see you in the streets, I'm going to **** you up!" And then, after five days, she recanted the entire allegation of assault when interviewed by an NYPD detective. What caused this outburst? Her family is said to believe Sneha's version of events, but the person she accused is a well-regarded physician (who has a clean criminal record).

 

[Hausos]

I'm more likely to believe the contemporaneous reports of her coworkers who said she wasn't good at her job, cut corners, was ambivalent about her work, her many infractions, her work ethic, etc. that leads me to believe she'd be the last doctor to run towards danger.

Yeah. If anything, I think she would be running away from the WTC on 9/11 than towards them...

 

[GatorFL]

I'm more likely to believe the contemporaneous reports of her coworkers who said she wasn't good at her job, cut corners, was ambivalent about her work, her many infractions, her work ethic, etc. that leads me to believe she'd be the last doctor to run towards danger.

I'm not familiar with any contemporaneous reports of her being bad at her job. I am aware of a much later report in the Missing on 9/11 Podcast from her supervisor. Do you have any sources?

 

[Cascadia Mount]

I read about Sneha years ago in New York Magazine. I always thought she must have died in the explosion since she was so near but a post above said it's unlikely for any of her remains or ring not to be found.

 

[Tower]

I'm not familiar with any contemporaneous reports of her being bad at her job. I am aware of a much later report in the Missing on 9/11 Podcast from her supervisor. Do you have any sources?

She was essentially fired from her position at Cabrini (contract was not renewed for her residency which is extremely unusual). Court records indicated this was due to late arrivals and poor documentation, later linked to her possible alcoholism. There were many reports from LE sources about her behavior including an arrest for filing a false police report against a co-worker at the time in court record.

Many of these sources are upthread here.

Do you have any reason to believe her supervisor would disparage her years later if she were an excellent and responsible worker? Her supervisor would certainly know exactly what her performance was at the time.

ETA:

Sneha Philip: The mystery of the woman who disappeared on 9/11

One of the listed victims of the terrorist attacks may not have been at Ground Zero at all

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Tower]

DBM

 

[GatorFL]

She was essentially fired from her position at Cabrini (contract was not renewed for her residency which is extremely unusual). Court records indicated this was due to late arrivals and poor documentation, later linked to her possible alcoholism. There were many reports from LE sources about her behavior including an arrest for filing a false police report against a co-worker at the time in court record.

Many of these sources are upthread here.

Do you have any reason to believe her supervisor would disparage her years later if she were an excellent and responsible worker? Her supervisor would certainly know exactly what her performance was at the time.

ETA:

Sneha Philip: The mystery of the woman who disappeared on 9/11

One of the listed victims of the terrorist attacks may not have been at Ground Zero at all

www.independent.co.uk

I'm familiar with all that of course. What I am not familiar with are contemporaneous reports from her coworkers that she was a bad doctor. I recall just the opposite: she was a great doctor and regarded among the most intelligent in her cohort but she was making poor life choices, i.e.: showing up late and once had alcohol on her breath. So that's why I asked for sources, which is appropriate here on WS.

As an aside I don't regard her non-renewal as substantial. It happens more frequently than you realize. I work in healthcare. I've personally seen far more troubled physicians rehabilitated. There are a variety of intervention programs that do just this.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'm familiar with all that of course. What I am not familiar with are contemporaneous reports from her coworkers that she was a bad doctor. I recall just the opposite: she was a great doctor and regarded among the most intelligent in her cohort but she was making poor life choices, i.e.: showing up late and once had alcohol on her breath. So that's why I asked for sources, which is appropriate here on WS.

As an aside I don't regard her non-renewal as substantial. It happens more frequently than you realize. I work in healthcare. I've personally seen far more troubled physicians rehabilitated. There are a variety of intervention programs that do just this.

Actually it's relatively rare to terminate a physician from residency. That's because for most physicians, a residency termination is career-ending. It isn't just a "setback" as it would be for a fully licensed physician. Residency is education and termination is a huge deal, something that will impact ability to be covered for malpractice, impact ability to get credentialed at hospitals, and all sorts of other things. Residency termination is a significantly long process for this reason. Absent immediate patient danger, it can take months to a year to terminate a resident because you have to go through a number of steps first, including remediation or rehabilitation, fitness for duty evaluations, competency committee summons and hearings, then a hospital graduate medical education hearing, so on and so forth. They do this because the career ramifications are so severe. A hospital will risk its accreditation to host residency programs at all if there's funny business here.

So if she was terminated, my opinion is that she was either significantly impaired or she was deemed to be a danger to patients. JMO.

 

[GatorFL]

Actually it's relatively rare to terminate a physician from residency. That's because for most physicians, a residency termination is career-ending. It isn't just a "setback" as it would be for a fully licensed physician. Residency is education and termination is a huge deal, something that will impact ability to be covered for malpractice, impact ability to get credentialed at hospitals, and all sorts of other things. Residency termination is a significantly long process for this reason. Absent immediate patient danger, it can take months to a year to terminate a resident because you have to go through a number of steps first, including remediation or rehabilitation, fitness for duty evaluations, competency committee summons and hearings, then a hospital graduate medical education hearing, so on and so forth. They do this because the career ramifications are so severe. A hospital will risk its accreditation to host residency programs at all if there's funny business here.

So if she was terminated, my opinion is that she was either significantly impaired or she was deemed to be a danger to patients. JMO.

She wasn't terminated, she was non renewed and that is a substantial difference. She immediately got another residency as well.

 

[Tower]

I'm familiar with all that of course. What I am not familiar with are contemporaneous reports from her coworkers that she was a bad doctor. I recall just the opposite: she was a great doctor and regarded among the most intelligent in her cohort but she was making poor life choices, i.e.: showing up late and once had alcohol on her breath. So that's why I asked for sources, which is appropriate here on WS.

As an aside I don't regard her non-renewal as substantial. It happens more frequently than you realize. I work in healthcare. I've personally seen far more troubled physicians rehabilitated. There are a variety of intervention programs that do just this.

I also work in healthcare and have seen many, many nurses and doctors undergo substance abuse treatment. You get a much shorter leash to deal with these issue when you are still a resident.

I think we are arguing semantics. In a residency, a “bad doctor” can easily be defined as showing up late, documenting poorly or not at all and accusing a co-worker, senior, well-respected doctor with an impeccable record, of sexual harassment so loudly and vehemently that she is arrested for filing a false police report. All of these are documented in court records.

She was complicated. She was likely brilliant but also struggling and difficult.

 

[Tower]

Matter of Philip (Lieberman)

Matter of Philip (Lieberman)

law.justia.com

This is the judicial ruling that Sneha was likely to have died in the 9/11 attacks. The judge repeatedly discounts the characterization by LE and others that her personal and professional life was “unstable,” stating it is hearsay.

It is my opinion that many LE and other investigators as well as her colleagues and even family members would have no reason to lie about how unstable her life was at the time she disappeared. In fact, I think there is more motivation to exaggerate her good qualities in light of her disappearance. And I respect that.

There’s simply no basis on which to form a strong opinion 23 years later. But although the report of many people is hearsay and doesn’t rise to the level of legal proof, I think the judges in this ruling are being very generous when there is really no proof of anything at all. She was not observed rushing in to help anyone who was injured, not observed dining, not observed anywhere at all after 9/10. Perhaps DNA testing will finally confirm her resting place someday soon.

 

[GatorFL]

Matter of Philip (Lieberman)

Matter of Philip (Lieberman)

law.justia.com

This is the judicial ruling that Sneha was likely to have died in the 9/11 attacks. The judge repeatedly discounts the characterization by LE and others that her personal and professional life was “unstable,” stating it is hearsay.

It is my opinion that many LE and other investigators as well as her colleagues and even family members would have no reason to lie about how unstable her life was at the time she disappeared. In fact, I think there is more motivation to exaggerate her good qualities in light of her disappearance. And I respect that.

There’s simply no basis on which to form a strong opinion 23 years later. But although the report of many people is hearsay and doesn’t rise to the level of legal proof, I think the judges in this ruling are being very generous when there is really no proof of anything at all. She was not observed rushing in to help anyone who was injured, not observed dining, not observed anywhere at all after 9/10. Perhaps DNA testing will finally confirm her resting place someday soon.

I paid for the entire court transcript of the appellate case because I wanted to learn what testimony was given which caused them to rule her a 9/11 victim. It is much more expansive than the final ruling, of course, because it includes all of the testimony given in this case.

They relied on preponderance of evidence which is why they ruled the way that they did. I'll paraphrase the testimony. There was zero evidence she died on 9/10. The NYPD was adamant her body would have been found if she had. There was also zero evidence, and in fact evidence to the contrary, of her fleeing and pulling a gone girl. The evidence was that she was a medical doctor, that she was thought to be nearby Ground Zero, and that some civilians were let in as first responders. Her personal issues were considered hearsay and Bogatin also downplayed her issues as minor. Even the NYPD testified she likely died there, in spite of all the drama from the family.

Here's the kicker on DNA. She might have already been ID'ed and we don't know. Last year a couple of people were ID'ed through DNA and one of the families declined to release the name of the deceased.