Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[Ravenmoon]

Is anyone familiar with another case with a stranger murder where the killer was a local man who murdered 2+ children that he has no connection to, left them on the same property where he found them, (eta: add in staging the crime scene and posing the bodies) with no apparent sexual assault and then came forward to the police as a witness immediately after the crime? I’d be curious if anyone knows if these circumstances have happened in any other cases.

MOO

Just a guess, but you think this was someone that they knew?

I would not think so since neither girl recognized the perp. If they had, they most definitely would have said the name of that person on Libby's video.

JMO

 

[susane7]

No one crime has the same circumstances, especially crimes with random victims. Any crime it's different. Psychopathic killers are different and have different fantasies and different methods. They can fantasize with young women, old women, with children, man, or just want to murder someone and killing anyone when they have the opportunity. Most killer on trails are killers on strangers. Sometimes they rape the victims with their body, sometimes rape with other things for not leave DNA, sometimes they just tell to victims to undress, humiliate them, or tell the victims to made things to one another if there is more than one victim. Sometimes they were not seen by anyone, so they don't need to tell the police they were there, etc.

I don't remember the names but there was one guy who kidnapped, raped and killed a children in 5/10 minutes who just who had only moved a few meters away from her mother. There is another case where a man pushed a teenager girl from a height in a shopping center (I don't remember very well the story but I think that it was happened). One guy went to the police and said he saw the killer and he described him. The police spent years looking for that guy and never found him. Until a new set of eyes in the investigation that thought they should investigate that man who inserted in the investigation to describe the killer. They found out he was the killer.

The killer of murder April Tinsley, she was kidnapped, raped and killed. The killer spent years taunting the police. When he was caught, he explain it was random and he just planned to kidnap a child, but he had not seen April before abducting her. He also explained he just didn't commit more crimes because the opportunity never came but he wanted to commited. Sarah Everard case in London - totally random victim. The Killer of Joenelle Matthews inserted himself in the investigation and talked with the police. The kidnapper and raper of Jayme Closs. He entered her house, killed her family and kidnapped and raped her for some time. Fortunately, she escaped with life. Police and profilers were totally wrong: they said it was to be someone who knew her family to murder all the family, etc. It was random . He just saw her in a bus stop. Etc.
I have to go to bed but then I'll see tomorrow if I remember anything else.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The kidnapper of Jessica (?) I think it was Jessica. Someone please help me. He entered her house, killed her family and kidnapped her for some time. Fortunately, she escaped with life.

Jayme Closs.

Great post, too. I have never seen a case quite like the Delphi case, but there are examples of other cases with similarities, as you note.

 

[susane7]

Jayme Closs.

Great post, too. I have never seen a case quite like the Delphi case, but there are examples of other cases with similarities, as you note.

Thank you very much. I corrected it. Yes, I don't think there are a case with the same exact circunstances as Delphi but some with some similarities tes. The crimes are different because the victims are different, killers are different, fantasies are different, methods are different, the police are different and could be an impact how killers wil act (small city vs big city with many recourses, for example), etc.

 

[MollyDDD]

If RA is guilty, it's despicable what his attorneys are doing. Vigorous defense is one thing. Unethical is another matter entirely.

Forcing the State to labor to prove the charges is one thing. Being party to a round table of brainstorming how best to taint the jury pool undermines fairness not just in this case but all cases.

Defense attorneys are officers of the court, first and foremost.

IMO they have engaged in a campaign to bait, provoke, exhaust, defame the judge.

I hope the judge attaches stringent parameters to the mino opening statements-- I'm a little surprised she's allowed, surprised on account of how many ways it can go all kinds of wrong. Most of those called to jury duty will be dismissed, is the judge going to hold them all to the gag rule, if the defense includes details that aren't factual or are salacious? I trust she will admonish prospective jurors that attorney statements aren't facts, aren't evidence but....

If the D says something that absolutely would not be admitted into evidence, how will she put that horse back in the barn? If the judge disallows testimony on Odinism as being irrelevant, unsupported, confusing, what's to stop the Defense from raising it at the kickoff to voir dire? Will the judge correct them, can the State object? I worry about mockery.

I just watched a robust trial where a SEALED DOCUMENT was front and center throughout a trial (including in large font on the defendant's laptop) even though it was sealed two judges ruled it couldn't be raised, but there it was, mentioned often and nearly sneaked into the court record. I trust THIS Defense THAT much.

I fully support defending RA by whatever LEGAL means possible. He's entitled to that. It protects everyone's freedom. Respectful, decent, befitting officers of the court.

Anything less than that or outside of that is an assault on justice.

JMO

It’s a sign of the times. IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

No one crime has the same circumstances, especially crimes with random victims. Any crime it's different. Psychopathic killers are different and have different fantasies and different methods. They can fantasize with young women, old women, with children, man, or just want to murder someone and killing anyone when they have the opportunity. Most killer on trails are killers on strangers. Sometimes they rape the victims with their body, sometimes rape with other things for not leave DNA, sometimes they just tell to victims to undress, humiliate them, or tell the victims to made things to one another if there is more than one victim. Sometimes they were not seen by anyone, so they don't need to tell the police they were there, etc.

I don't remember the names but there was one guy who kidnapped, raped and killed a children in 5/10 minutes who just who had only moved a few meters away from her mother. There is another case where a man pushed a teenager girl from a height in a shopping center (I don't remember very well the story but I think that it was happened). One guy went to the police and said he saw the killer and he described him. The police spent years looking for that guy and never found him. Until a new set of eyes in the investigation that thought they should investigate that man who inserted in the investigation to describe the killer. They found out he was the killer.

The killer of murder April Tinsley, she was kidnapped, raped and killed. The killer spent years taunting the police. When he was caught, he explain it was random and he just planned to kidnap a child, but he had not seen April before abducting her. He also explained he just didn't commit more crimes because the opportunity never came but he wanted to commited. Sarah Everard case in London - totally random victim. The Killer of Joenelle Matthews inserted himself in the investigation and talked with the police. The kidnapper and raper of Jayme Closs. He entered her house, killed her family and kidnapped and raped her for some time. Fortunately, she escaped with life. Police and profilers were totally wrong: they said it was to be someone who knew her family to murder all the family, etc. It was random . He just saw her in a bus stop. Etc.
I have to go to bed but then I'll see tomorrow if I remember anything else.

Nighty night.

 

[TTF14]

Is anyone familiar with another case with a stranger murder where the killer was a local man who murdered 2+ children that he has no connection to, left them on the same property where he found them, (eta: add in staging the crime scene and posing the bodies) with no apparent sexual assault and then came forward to the police as a witness immediately after the crime? I’d be curious if anyone knows if these circumstances have happened in any other cases.

MOO

I'd settle for just one single killer of two girls in broad daylight, then elaborately staging a crime scene to look like something completely.....bizarre.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Approved source Gray Hughes did a Delphi show last night, after not reporting on Delphi in quite a while. He must have had some important stuff he wanted to get out before the hearings started. At around 3 minutes in, he talks about talking to Becky Patty, grandmother of Libby, just earlier in the day. I thought she was under the gag order, but I guess not.

 

[TTF14]

Incidence of single-victim Homicides committed in the daytime in a public place: so rare there’s no data. Make it a double homicide committed in the daytime in a public place…nearly unheard of.


Posing: Only 1.3% of all victims (every gender/every age) are left in an unusual position, with 0.3% being posed (for killer’s pleasure) and 0.1% being staged (to confuse LE)

https://www.researchgate.net/public...positions_of_Victim_Bodies_Staging_and_Posing

Exactly.

I hope these hearings reveal a lot. I so wish we could watch them. Grrrr..

IMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Approved source Gray Hughes did a Delphi show last night, after not reporting on Delphi in quite a while. He must have had some important stuff he wanted to get out before the hearings started. At around 3 minutes in, he talks about talking to Becky Patty, grandmother of Libby, just earlier in the day. I thought she was under the gag order, but I guess not.

May as well tell us - is she talking about the case?

Ok - at 3:50 he says he called her to ask what would be admissible. As if she would know.

Seriously. This is getting vicious.

jmo

 

[TTF14]

May as well tell us - is she talking about the case?

She wasn't on the live, so I can't answer that. Gray talked to her on the phone before the show. Then he proceeded to lay out what he wanted his audience to know about the case.

IMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

She wasn't on the live, so I can't answer that. Gray talked to her on the phone before the show. Then he proceeded to lay out what he wanted his audience to know about the case.

IMO MOO

So we going after BP now?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Incidence of single-victim Homicides committed in the daytime in a public place: so rare there’s no data. Make it a double homicide committed in the daytime in a public place…nearly unheard of.


Posing: Only 1.3% of all victims (every gender/every age) are left in an unusual position, with 0.3% being posed (for killer’s pleasure) and 0.1% being staged (to confuse LE)

https://www.researchgate.net/public...positions_of_Victim_Bodies_Staging_and_Posing

Kati and Kristin Lisk
Sheila and Katherine Lyon
Maureen Sterling and Yvonne Weber
Lyric and Elizabeth

Just naming a few. There are more

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Kati and Kristin Lisk
Sheila and Katherine Lyon
Lyric and Elizabeth

Just naming a few. There are more

Yes, I know but thanks. This is not my data, just referencing it but hopefully I can still delete it so as to not cause problems.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Yes, I know but thanks. This is not my data, just referencing it but hopefully I can still delete it so as to not cause problems.

It’s not a problem. Leave it there. Statistics have value.

 

[TTF14]

Kati and Kristin Lisk
Sheila and Katherine Lyon
Lyric and Elizabeth

Just naming a few. There are more

Did any of those include extremely tight timelines and/or elaborately staged crime scenes?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Did any of those include extremely tight timelines and/or elaborately staged crime scenes?

They are interesting, but sad child murder cases. Ice arena. Shopping mall. Lyric and Elizabeth were very decomposed and evidence was destroyed by the elements.

 

[schooling]

Fully agree.

Same thing has happened in cases for eons. Nothing about people discussing their shared experiences - especially when it comes to trumatic events. I've no doubt there was conversation akin to, "do you think that guy we saw did it?" / "Do you think they'll ever figure out who that guy we saw is?", etc etc. Normal. Not nefarious.

The questions that they were asked during interviews etc are preserved for the record. If any of them testify they will be cross-examined by the Defence. Exactly as witness' have been in the past and during millions of other trials.

I'm beginning to think that there are people these days who could/would never find a soul guilty of anything if the crime and their commission of it were not directly captured on videotape. Interestingly, IMO I also notice that they tend not to apply the same standard to other cases.

Seriously.

And now because of the prevalence of surveillance devices (mobile phones included) you have to know how they got to the crime scene and how they left.

If law enforcement can’t provide a live video feed showing a suspect approaching the crime scene then it’s considered a hole in the case. Even when the suspect doesn’t have a provable alibi.

Honestly, I think this way of thinking has always been out there. It’s just now everyone has a platform and true crime popularity has exploded way past the Friday night 20/20 (that wasn’t always true crime) and Tuesday night dateline and Thursday night 48 hours I grew up with in the 90s and early 2000s.

Natalie Holloway was the beginning and now here we are…

 

[grannygates]

Just a guess, but you think this was someone that they knew?

I would not think so since neither girl recognized the perp. If they had, they most definitely would have said the name of that person on Libby's video.

JMO

I don’t know what the girls actually say on their video or what happens after the phone goes into the pocket, so I don’t know that the “down the hill” voice is actually BG or what the girls say back to the man. I think that there was more than one person involved, so there’s room for the audio to be someone other than BG, or there may be other people who didn’t appear on the video.

My opinion is that stranger murders of multiple children without sexual assault with complex staging posing in broad daylight all within an hour and the killer possibly videotaped it, is incredibly rare and IMO very unlikely and I think it would be far more likely to be done by a person who knew the girls or Abby personally and perhaps did it for some reason other than random thrill kill or sex. I have a really hard time with the timeline, that all that apparently happened in under an hour with other people all over the trails. (ETA: and I totally forgot my main reason why, which was the redressing of Abby but not Libby)


All MOO

 

[mrjitty]

My controversial opinion.

There is no elaborate staging. One girl was murdered while dressed. He threw some sticks on the bodies as he wanted to make them harder to see. probably he gave up. he threw some clothes in the water to destroy DNA.

The case has no connection to CSAM.

MOO