PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[J. J. in Phila]

If Ray wanted to buy the laptop it was to soon to purchase it, he still had 8 more months to go. Curious here, if Ray did want to purchase it in a hurry would he have paid for it to the county commissioners? He did go to a prison board meeting the day before he disappeared. I wonder if he inquired about the laptop that day?

It was a Micron, but I don't recall the model off the top of my head.

He would have paid the county, but not the Commissioner's office. The prison board would have no role in that and it wasn't in the minutes of the meeting at any rate.

 

[cloudbuster05]

It was a Micron, but I don't recall the model off the top of my head.

He would have paid the county, but not the Commissioner's office. The prison board would have no role in that and it wasn't in the minutes of the meeting at any rate.

The most likely place to buy a cheap replacement hard drive is Ebay. Have they checked that out? Curious here, has Ray ever mentioned ebay to Patty or anyone else?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The most likely place to buy a cheap replacement hard drive is Ebay. Have they checked that out? Curious here, has Ray ever mentioned ebay to Patty or anyone else?

Actually, a drive could be purchased from Staples and, possibly, from the company.

I was a bit surprised how easy it would be to get a replacement drive.

 

[cloudbuster05]

JJ im looking into something. Can you ask around to those who knew him if Ray ever brought up Ebay at any time? TIA!

 

[Runes]

Hello everybody. I'm new here but I've worked cases elsewhere. I've read the WS posts 2005-2009 and have more to do. I live outt of state but I was raised in Blair County and fished Paradise with Dad as a kid. The Gricar case caught my eye when I saw the TV documentary.

My interest has been with Washington-Baltimore DOJ/FBI ADA Jonathan Luna's murder and the subsequent official chaos. I am not a Luna expert- I'm just starting to get back into it.

What intersects the Gricar and Luna cases is undercover work with drug task forces. The date of Luna's death in PA is 3-4 Dec 2003, not exactly a close time line - but who knows how long secret work had been going on.

If there's one thing that comes through to me, after 11 years of cold case investigating, it's don't put too much trust in LE to tell you everything. If they are honest cops/DA's they have legit reasons to keep some things close to the vest; if they are dishonest they do whatever it takes; if they're dumb it just adds time to the timeline until the cold case is solved.

Is there any link between drug task force work in Central PA and Baltimore, or Baltimore-Philly?

Good work on Gricar.

.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ im looking into something. Can you ask around to those who knew him if Ray ever brought up Ebay at any time? TIA!

Never heard of it, but that would produce a record.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hello everybody. I'm new here but I've worked cases elsewhere. I've read the WS posts 2005-2009 and have more to do. I live outt of state but I was raised in Blair County and fished Paradise with Dad as a kid. The Gricar case caught my eye when I saw the TV documentary.

Lived in the Johnstown area for 25 years and went to Penn State Altoona for a year. The latter has led to group of saying "What happened in Altoona, stays in Altoona."

In December of 2009, I did three blogs on the Luna case.

My interest has been with Washington-Baltimore DOJ/FBI ADA Jonathan Luna's murder and the subsequent official chaos. I am not a Luna expert- I'm just starting to get back into it.

What intersects the Gricar and Luna cases is undercover work with drug task forces. The date of Luna's death in PA is 3-4 Dec 2003, not exactly a close time line - but who knows how long secret work had been going on.

Is there any link between drug task force work in Central PA and Baltimore, or Baltimore-Philly?

One of the blogs looked at a lot of this, including a comparison of the modus operandi in December of 2009. There were notable differences. Even if you assume that both cases were murder, the MO is hugely different.

JPL and RFG had no known contact; their jurisdictions did not overlap. They didn't go to same schools, live in the same area, or even root for the same baseball teams. There were differences in age and background. When JPL's body was found, it was not a topic of conversation at the DA's Office in Centre County.

Further, RFG's work with the drug task force was minimal. The man leading the prosecution was Michael T. Madeira, who was elected DA in the next election.

 

[Runes]

JJ: very good, to the point answer. Thankyou. I believe any hit man used with Luna might have his own techniques, and other murders would likely be different for several reasons. But your comments about jurisdiction and the lack of conversatiom are important.

(I grew up a half mile from PSU campus, learned to ice skate/hocky there.)

 

[ThePhantom]

I never believed Mr. Luna killed himself. Did anyone?

Is it possible Ray could have pulled up in a car and tossed the hard drive out? Or had someone else do it for him?

I think this has already been addressed, but, does anyone know of drowning/suicide cases in that river in which the bodies were never found?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ: very good, to the point answer. Thankyou. I believe any hit man used with Luna might have his own techniques, and other murders would likely be different for several reasons. But your comments about jurisdiction and the lack of conversatiom are important.

(I grew up a half mile from PSU campus, learned to ice skate/hocky there.)

I was there for three years.

Really, looking at the circumstances, even assuming both were criminal, the MO is widely different, even to location and time of day.

Here was my list:

A. Mr. Gricar left from home; Mr. Luna left from the office.
B. Mr. Gricar left early to mid morning; Mr. Luna left after 11:30 PM.
C. Mr. Gricar drove about 56 miles, on a relatively direct path; Mr. Luna drove a minimum of 190 miles on a very indirect path.
D. Mr. Gricar took his cell phone; Mr. Luna left his behind in the office.
E. Mr. Gricar took the day off; Mr. Luna was suppose to fax a plea agreement that night, and was expected in court the next day.
F. Mr. Gricar phoned his girlfriend from the road; Mr. Luna had no contact with his wife or family members after he left.
G. The Mini Cooper, the car Mr. Gricar was driving, was found in a fairly densely populated area; Mr. Luna’s car was found in a rural area.
H. The Mini showed no evidence of a crime; Mr. Luna’s car had a large amount of blood.
I. The Mini was parked, engine off; Mr. Luna’s care was in a ditch, with the engine running.
J. Mr. Luna’s body was found; there was no effort to hide it. Mr. Gricar’s body was never found.

I looked at the background of both, and there just wasn't anything to connect them.

I believe that JPL's wounds were self inflicted, though there might not have been an intent to commit suicide.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I never believed Mr. Luna killed himself. Did anyone?

The FBI, and me.

Is it possible Ray could have pulled up in a car and tossed the hard drive out? Or had someone else do it for him?

The drive, no. The river bank at least 75 yards from the street, and the was in the river, 15-20 yards beyond the bank. He'd have been recruited by JoPa if he could do that.

I think this has already been addressed, but, does anyone know of drowning/suicide cases in that river in which the bodies were never found?

None recent from that branch, from what I've heard. The search was the most extensive one that I've ever heard of, however.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

When I say "The drive, no," I'm referring specifically to the drive. The laptop could have dropped from a car. It could have been even been dropped by the driver if he was moving slowly or stopped for a second.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Hello everybody. I'm new here but I've worked cases elsewhere. I've read the WS posts 2005-2009 and have more to do. I live outt of state but I was raised in Blair County and fished Paradise with Dad as a kid. The Gricar case caught my eye when I saw the TV documentary.

My interest has been with Washington-Baltimore DOJ/FBI ADA Jonathan Luna's murder and the subsequent official chaos. I am not a Luna expert- I'm just starting to get back into it.

What intersects the Gricar and Luna cases is undercover work with drug task forces. The date of Luna's death in PA is 3-4 Dec 2003, not exactly a close time line - but who knows how long secret work had been going on.

If there's one thing that comes through to me, after 11 years of cold case investigating, it's don't put too much trust in LE to tell you everything. If they are honest cops/DA's they have legit reasons to keep some things close to the vest; if they are dishonest they do whatever it takes; if they're dumb it just adds time to the timeline until the cold case is solved.

Is there any link between drug task force work in Central PA and Baltimore, or Baltimore-Philly?

Good work on Gricar.

.

Welcome aboard! There may be ties. Operation Sunburst phase one and Operation sunburst phase two may hold a possibility. The heroin bust was started by Ray. It doesn't mean nothing to me that Ray didn't prosecute it. Point is he started it. I also find it way to hard to believe that Mr Luna was a suicide. It would be hard to stab yourself 36 times ect. A funny rumor went around online about drug smuggling which supposedly started at a now shut down airport in Somerset. Which rumored into the Johnstown airport. Okay I will stop there because there is more but it was only rumor mill stuff.

 

[Wannabe2]

Lately, I wonder whether he had set up a meeting with someone in Lewisburg specifically to have the hard drive replaced. That is why he was waiting in the morning, and why someone who smoked was at his car (to get the laptop). But something went wrong. Has this scenario ever been investigated to anyone's knowledge?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Welcome to the board.

Lately, I wonder whether he had set up a meeting with someone in Lewisburg specifically to have the hard drive replaced. That is why he was waiting in the morning, and why someone who smoked was at his car (to get the laptop). But something went wrong. Has this scenario ever been investigated to anyone's knowledge?

Replacing the hard drive involved buying a replacement, either on-line or at a store, unscrewing a screw to take one out and replacing it with the new one. RFG wouldn't need any help.

 

[cloudbuster05]

The laptop could of been used in a meeting. I would think more like sting like operation. Perhaps Ray had evidence that someone wanted to buy. Perhaps Ray set out to get the person for bribing a Official. Without a body they could be thinking Ray took the money and fled. I don't think the public would ever hear about that if it happened. It would be like iceberg stuff.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Family moving to declare RFG dead. http://www.centredaily.com/2011/07/05/2817535/daughter-petitions-court-to-declare.html

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Blog up on the process of a declaration of death.

 

[rlc]

I think Mr. Gricar was concerned that his involvement in the recent drug case could bring harm to himself and his loved ones. Between the time he became involved in that case, and when he disappeared, I think he carefully planned his disappearance so that first, he brought his cases to a point where he was confident his successors could take over; second, he left his daughter taken care of with the pension she would inherit; third, he left his girlfriend a little something (by way of the car) to make sure she could adjust financially when he was gone; fourth, that he left evidence that would make anyone who wished him harm think he was likely gone and would be completely incapable of finding him. I can't put my finger on it, but I do feel as though he tried to leave some subtle clues to his loved ones that he was going willingly, and that he cared about them.

Perhaps it's optimism, but I do think he is alive and well somewhere, maybe writing crime novels in a cabin somewhere, hoping that unless/until such a time when he would be completely safe, nobody tracks him down.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There was a major drug case, but RFG was not prosecuting it. When he disappeared, the case was being handled by Michael Madeira, who eventually replaced him.

That case ended with a conviction, and the main defendant, Taji "Verbal" Lee, is still in jail.