Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

papertrail · Oct 21, 2015

billywhizz said:
It is without a doubt the worst pick up line I have ever heard.

It instantly puts images of a mentally handicapped person ala Martin Bryant into my head.

What could possibly be less seductive than a father in law who is a policeman and a grown man who would use that as a line to entice someone into a car? You'd think it would ring alarm bells the moment someone said that.

Yep sunbleached, or died. But how many surfers do you know who'd be stone cold sober and out late at night offering lifts?

one that had murder on his mind

papertrail · Oct 21, 2015

billywhizz said:
It is without a doubt the worst pick up line I have ever heard.

It instantly puts images of a mentally handicapped person ala Martin Bryant into my head.

What could possibly be less seductive than a father in law who is a policeman and a grown man who would use that as a line to entice someone into a car? You'd think it would ring alarm bells the moment someone said that.

Yep sunbleached, or died. But how many surfers do you know who'd be stone cold sober and out late at night offering lifts?

one that had murder on his mind and the story about being a police officer's son well that shows me he had an inferiority complex and couldn't rely on his own character and personality to get his 'girl'. I have even considered he may have had some sort of physical handicap that doesn't show in the CIA doc.

billywhizz · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
If you look very closely at the CIA mystery man footage and don't concentrate on Jane (hard I know) you will see a person with dark trousers and white shirt walking back towards Gugeri Street after mystery man disappears from sight.

Thanks for the offer, could you please do a screen grab of this one papertrail?

EDIT - I did just watch them both before I asked. But couldn't see it.

papertrail · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
one that had murder on his mind and the story about being a police officer's son well that shows me he had an inferiority complex and couldn't rely on his own character and personality to get his 'girl'. I have even considered he may have had some sort of physical handicap that doesn't show in the CIA doc.

I think you will find there are 4 friends in the doc when the girl's are walking towards Club Bayview

papertrail · Oct 21, 2015

billywhizz said:
Thanks for the offer, could you please do a screen grab of this one papertrail?

EDIT - I did just watch them both before I asked. But couldn't see it.

no probs will do tomorrow

drpath · Oct 21, 2015

Fonty, regarding Francis John Wark...extremely interesting information you have posted here. I believe that he is worthy of sleuthing pertaining to the Claremont Serial Killer case.

I have done a lot of research on Wark tonight since this information has been posted to the forum. The 2006 offence for which he was jailed is horrific. That victim was hitch-hiking when she was picked up by him near Millaa Millaa in Far North Queensland where he lived, taken to his home where he sexually assaulted, repeatedly raped her, and sodomised her. Ropes were an integral part of that crime (read the paragraphs pertaining to Wark's Supreme Court Appeal that Fonty linked to)...

https://jade.barnet.com.au/Jade.html#!article=79701

Katie O'Shea also went missing in 2005 from Atherton pub, near Millaa Millaa, prior to the above-mentioned crime. Wark was called to give evidence at an inquest into her suspected death...

http://m.cairnspost.com.au/news/cai...e-of-katie-oshea/story-fnjpusyw-1226914134657

(Wark is referred to as "Mr. B" in Katie O'Shea's inquest...

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/263105/cif-oshea-km-20140612.pdf

An arrest warrant has indeed been issued for Wark over the 1999 murder of Hayley Dodd (she was hitch-hiking near his home town when she went missing). His extradition from Queensland to WA is currently in progress through the WA legal system...

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...n/news-story/bd3588ddb9be1a82e6a644221d844cf4

Additionally, it is true that Wark moved from WA to Far North Queensland a few months after Hayley Dodd went missing...

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...e/news-story/812f68785072e8dbba694e356aa48c99

I do not have access to electoral roll or census information regarding where Wark or his family lived when the Karrakatta cemetery rape was carried out and during the Claremont murders. If the information provided regarding his living arrangements is correct, and only IF, then one certainly has to wonder if Wark could indeed be the Claremont Serial Killer.

drpath · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
Karrakatta rapist was described as having brown collar length hair which makes me wonder, given he drove a panelvan, whether he was a surfer hence later descriptions in 96 and 97 were of a blonde man. Either sun bleached hair or dyed blonde or even wearing a wig.

According to a newspaper clipping posted earlier in the thread, it was the Karrakatta rape victim herself who said her rapist was driving a pale-coloured panel van, had collar length brown hair, medium to solid build, approx. 183cm tall.

d

billywhizz · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
Here we have very similar descriptions of a man offering lifts. The taxi driver Steve's description of a handsome well dressed man with blonde hair who forced the women he believed to be Sarah Spiers out of his car.View attachment 83124

So there would have been traces of blonde guy on SS clothes from the night before?

When did taxi driver Steve make these claims? Before or after blonde man story was circulating?

fonty · Oct 21, 2015

AlwaysCurious77 said:
My jaded self says in order to keep the story going and sell more papers.

Otherwise it could be a pressure tactic, to remind the perp that work is on-going.

Probably a bit of both.

IMO the WAPOL leak regarding the forensic link is to show there is still life in the case. If WAPOL cannot show the case is progressing after almost 20 years then there will certainly be intense pressure for a public inquest... which I'm sure WAPOL would love to avoid given how much scrutiny the case has received over the years.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-night/features/a/28303821/mcgowan-promises-murder-inquiry/

enzeder · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
I like your proposition there Sutton. If you look very closely at the CIA mystery man footage and don't concentrate on Jane (hard I know) you will see a person with dark trousers and white shirt walking back towards Gugeri Street after mystery man disappears from sight. To me this gives a distinct possiblity that he had parked his vehicle on Gugeri. I still consider MM is the highest on my list.

RSBM&BBM

I think I see the person you are referring to; around 38:53 in the CI-A video?. I have to say though, if you hadn't pointed him out I never would have noticed him. Quite difficult to see but I followed his leg movements closely, as he disappeared out of view, and he appeared to turn left into Gugeri Street.

Crime Investigation Australia - Hunt for a Killer The Claremont Murders @ 38:53 - https://youtu.be/nNNF1E3mg3c?t=2333

Bartholemeus · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
Rowe Park is adjacent to a railway line and to the Claremont subway which goes underneath the railway line to access the northern areas from there.

New Years Eve 1992/93 two girls were raped adjacent to Swanbourne Railway Station, the next stop (west) towards Fremantle from Claremont station. Girls had both been to Club Bayview

New Years Eve 1993/94 a girl was waiting at the stop sign at the Claremont subway (1st para above), was pulled from her vehicle and survived an attempted rape. Girl had been at Club Bayview

Then 12 February 1994 there is the Karrakatta rape victim abducted from the Rowe Park location which is very close to the Claremont subway (1st para). Girl had been to Club Bayview

31 October 1994 girl grabbed by man seated in back seat of taxi whilst traveling along Princess St Claremont. Was this girl seated in front passenger seat. It could have been the taxi driver was not aware of the man crouching in the back seat. Many taxi drivers used to exit their vehicles at taxi ranks to chat with their buddies whilst waiting for their next passengers so it may have been possible for this attacker to hide in the taxi without the driver's knowledge. Girl fled vehicle suffered broken ankle hospitalized for 1 month. Girl had been to Club Bayview

Sarah Spiers' abduction 27 January. Had been to Club Bayview

3 March 1996 girl sexually assaulted in Church Lane behind Club Bayview. Head bashed 6 times into wall. Skirt ripped off her.

9 June 1996 Jane Rimmer. Had been to Club Bayview did she enter premises. Employee stated to newspaper she was seen inside

14 or 15 March 1997 Ciara Glennon. Did she walk past Club Bayview?

I think there were more assaults/rapes between Jane and Ciara; possibly unreported.

There were an awful lot of sexual assaults occurring in the lead up to the 96 and 97 abductions and murders. What were police doing about these? Nothing it would seem.

That's the first I've heard about the Swanbourne incident and the Subway incident. Debbie Marshall didn't seem to know about these either. She did however know about another on Lake Claremont Golf Course. A girl got picked up by a taxi, taken to the gold course and either raped or attempted raped.

On the Swanbourne incident: How did one man contain two girls? Or was there more than one rapist?

I never felt the western suburbs were rapey but on the evidence in was a hotspot in the 90s. Does anyone remember the period before the CSKK murders? Was there a public concern about safety? Clearly there was no news about a serial rapist getting about which either means police didn't care enough to connect the dots or there were a lot of sick men in the area at the time.

AlwaysCurious77 · Oct 21, 2015

I believe in either the CIA doco or Debi's book that Jane elected not to travel home with her friends, saying that she wanted to stay out longer.

If you connect the comments about 'my xx is a police officer' with the panel van information it actually fits. Remember police used to use white panel vans, perhaps still during that period. He could have explained his connection to the police to explain why he had a police vehicle?

papertrail · Oct 21, 2015

I do not have access to electoral roll or census information regarding where Wark or his family lived when the Karrakatta cemetery rape was carried out and during the Claremont murders. If the information provided regarding his living arrangements is correct, and only IF, then one certainly has to wonder if Wark could indeed be the Claremont Serial Killer.[/QUOTE]

How long did Wark own the property at Badgingarra for? Is there anything that connects Wark to living in Perth metro region and not just that his parents or family owned a property there? What is Wark's height? What is Wark's hair colour? Is his hair curly or straight and what length was it? How are his physical dimensions described ie small, medium or heavy build? Is he known to own or have access to a light coloured panel van? I would have thought that the police would have gone through his background and other living quarters (eg parent's properties) and financial and other records with a very large dose of salts and something would have leaked if they'd found anything that linked him to the Claremont rapes, sexual assaults, abductions and murders. He abducted girls from country roads miles away from large cities. Would he venture into the Claremont region to conduct rapes, sexual assaults, abductions and murders? He is not on my radar for Claremont he doesn't have the smarts.

papertrail · Oct 21, 2015

AlwaysCurious77 said:
I believe in either the CIA doco or Debi's book that Jane elected not to travel home with her friends, saying that she wanted to stay out longer.

If you connect the comments about 'my xx is a police officer' with the panel van information it actually fits. Remember police used to use white panel vans, perhaps still during that period. He could have explained his connection to the police to explain why he had a police vehicle?

Were there any unmarked police divvy vans around? I have always observed these vans with clear markings ie police logo? The divvy vans are white in colour; the description of the panelvan is light coloured. To me that is not indicating it was white.

Bartholemeus · Oct 21, 2015

AlwaysCurious77 said:
I believe in either the CIA doco or Debi's book that Jane elected not to travel home with her friends, saying that she wanted to stay out longer.

If you connect the comments about 'my xx is a police officer' with the panel van information it actually fits. Remember police used to use white panel vans, perhaps still during that period. He could have explained his connection to the police to explain why he had a police vehicle?

This is my understanding. Conti was closing and JR didn't like Club. Why did she stay behind? In which direction did she walk off in?

Sutton · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
...Another woman blogged in an online blog which has now been removed, that she was at Club Bay View the night that Sarah Spiers disappeared. She and Sarah had exited at the same time. A man with a bobbed hairstyle had offered her a lift and she declined and turned right outside the club. Sarah turned left and walked to her fate...

billywhizz said:
If this is the case then the reenactment of SS leaving Club Bay View on CIA doco is totally incorrect.

papertrail said:
The only thing that is different in the CIA documentary vs the bloggers description is in the CIA doc they did not show any other 'patrons' leaving...

Snipped, and convo quoted so my post makes sense. I can see how the CIA docu might not include every single detail. But it leaves some questions, now that the blogger's comments have been mentioned (if we decide to believe the blogger).

If the blogger and Sarah exited at the same time, at what point did bobbed haircut offer her a lift? Was this inside or just outside the doors? Did he appear to know Sarah? Did he also offer the blogger a lift? Did he overhear Sarah say her destination and offer bc he was going there as well? Did the blogger know Sarah?

The docu goes into some detail about the bouncer (he was an old friend, knew Amanda, asked about Sarah's plan, etc.). So why doesn't the blogger mention the bouncer? Did she slip between or step over the roped off entryway for a shortcut, thus missing Sarah's interaction with the bouncer?

Maybe the article you post later in the week will make things clearer. I would love to know who the blogger was and if she was willing to comment on any of this today.

Sutton · Oct 21, 2015

At 11:38 in the CIA docu Don Spiers says he "even drove down to (?)Manger(?) to check out property out down there, to make sure that she wasn't down there." Is that correct 'Manger' (with a soft g)?

May seem irrelevant, but this is related to the Judo theory, I don't want to ignore something that could provide proof.

Bartholemeus · Oct 21, 2015

Mandurah

60km south of Perth. Used to be a seaside holiday town but now is the southern fringes of Perth. They probably owned a holiday home there.

Sutton · Oct 21, 2015

papertrail said:
I didn't actually realize that this newspaper article dated 7 August 1996 (just 4 days after Jane's body was discovered) contained this information; missed in totally when I read it previously and I don't know how I missed such an important piece of information.

"Insp. Ferguson said there had been several items of clothing and a pair of shoes found. They were still being examined but did not appear to belong to Jane Rimmer (my bolding). ...

RSBM. The CIA docu focuses on what Sarah was wearing.

Steve Liebman, Host (12:08): Pictures of Sarah are circulated, along with descriptions of her beige Portman shorts and a light colored T-shirt and, particularly, her distinctive shoes.
Jim Stanbury, Det. Srgt. (12:20): They were beige suede shoes and had quite a distinctive chunky heel and a pattern cut out of the top of the shoe.

The docu shows a picture of Sarah's outfit and a close-up of her shoe. I can maybe see why they wouldn't focus on Jane or Ciara's clothing--it was (likely) found with their bodies. But, why focus on Sarah's clothes? Sarah's body isn't lying unidentified in a morgue, just waiting for a someone to make an id based on a description of her foot ware.

Were those the shoes found with Jane off Woolcoot Rd.?

The killer left Sarah's clothes and shoes with Jane's body to send a message to the police (really to the world, in general). He was opening a conversation, baiting them, making s statement about himself. The police sent a message back, via the CIA docu, acknowledging him, and hoping to draw him back into conversation. IMO. Just a possibility.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445479269.072705.jpg

papertrail · Oct 21, 2015

Sutton said:
papertrail said:

...Another woman blogged in an online blog which has now been removed, that she was at Club Bay View the night that Sarah Spiers disappeared. She and Sarah had exited at the same time. A man with a bobbed hairstyle had offered her a lift and she declined and turned right outside the club. Sarah turned left and walked to her fate...

Snipped, and convo quoted so my post makes sense. I can see how the CIA docu might not include every single detail. But it leaves some questions, now that the blogger's comments have been mentioned (if we decide to believe the blogger).

If the blogger and Sarah exited at the same time, at what point did bobbed haircut offer her a lift? Was this inside or just outside the doors? Did he appear to know Sarah? Did he also offer the blogger a lift? Did he overhear Sarah say her destination and offer bc he was going there as well? Did the blogger know Sarah?

The docu goes into some detail about the bouncer (he was an old friend, knew Amanda, asked about Sarah's plan, etc.). So why doesn't the blogger mention the bouncer? Did she slip between or step over the roped off entryway for a shortcut, thus missing Sarah's interaction with the bouncer?

Maybe the article you post later in the week will make things clearer. I would love to know who the blogger was and if she was willing to comment on any of this today.

Click to expand...

From memory (because the copy is stored elsewhere) the woman (who blogged the details) gave the distinct impression the conversation if you can call it that, occurred on the footpath outside Club Bayview. I've got a strong gut feeling this guy went into the Club and perhaps the Continental Hotel and met these girls previously but then again would he do that because then his image would be printed onto their memory having spoken to him already. If he didn't first make contact inside the Club, then he has stalked them hasn't he. But then this raises the question about the girl being dragged from her vehicle at the Claremont Subway: was he waiting there on the off chance or did he know or or did he meet her inside the Club. Police should have covered that during their questioning of the girls. Given the sexual assault and rape victims also attended Club Bayview this seems to be the hotspot. I'll be posting more newspaper clips later today; one which contains the information from a Club staffer who stated to press that Jane had been seen inside the Club and this was very early on in the piece as well.

With the detail and dates I detailed yesterday re the sexual assaults, rapes, abductions, murders all the girls had been to the Club except Jane (?) and Ciara. The Continental was only mentioned in the press for Sarah, Jane and Ciara. Sarah we know was at the Club, Jane and her girlfriends apparently according to her female friend Lynda (CIA doc) walked to the Club but there was a queue so they decided not to wait, instead to go home with Jane changing her mind at the last minute. I still believe this (Jane's decision) was due to the passenger licensing requirements of 4 passengers only and her unselfish caring attitude towards her friends; and perhaps on the off chance she might meet that someone special. Her bodyl anguage tends to tell me she did not know MM as she did not alter her stance, move forward or unfold her arms; she presented him with a beaming open-mouthed welcoming smile. He would be good looking for her to respond the way she did. Ciara did not actually attend the Club (that we know of) but did she walk past the Club and then cut up Church Lane to the Stirling Highway? Witness accounts have her between Church Lane and Stirling Street/Queenslea Parade (same street but renamed to the south of Highway) and waling on eastbound (south) side of Stirling Highway towards Mosman Park (to her parent's home).

The woman had stated in the (now) removed blog that she had been interviewed 4 times by Macro. She had recognized Sarah but was this recognition prompted by media coverage or did she recognize her as a patron of the Club? I am reliably informed that police were made aware of the blog which raises the possibility or even probability they had taken steps to have the particular blog removed. There could be various reasons for doing so in particular she had what appeared to be her real name and coloured photo as her avatar and included her location. A search of the name and location tended to verify this blogger had not used a false name or location. There may have been concerns for her safety and rightly so. Now all I have to do is find the copy passed to me minus name and photo and location detail, supplied from a source which I cannot reveal.

Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

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