Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

I've been slowly going through some of the old WS forums from the time of the incident to time of the press conference, etc. Lots of great folks, as usual, but man... there are a few users in those who clearly were related to the family in some way & were very ugly. Same ugliness by about 4-5 Twitter accounts right now. These people are pretty easy to spot. Makes me kind of nauseous. Like, ad nausium comments about RZ being negligent because she shouldn't have gone to the bathroom leaving a 6 year old in a home of that size. But, not a one thought maybe JS should have took his kid with him when he went to the airport with the siblings and/or forgone his trip to (gym? golfing?) until mom picked up their son. Arrgghh... Listened to NR's interview yesterday, too. Same tone.

Poor Rebecca, she had to deal with all that animosity, kids who weren't her own & didn't respect her, with a father who had no compunction about leaving her in charge while he recreates alone on his custodial time. Then, this horrible murder & the ongoing disrespect of her memory. Pathologizing her because something bad happened to her once in childhood, because she was dedicated to her health & nutrition, because she felt the stress and doubt of a blended family life? It just hits me in the gut. Hard. And, what her family must be going through all this time. I soooooo want to see some justice for this family.

FBEye said:

This shows campaign contributions from JS to Gore, from a Google search.

https://littlesis.org/person/83464-Jonah_Shacknai/political

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Verboten said:

I've been slowly going through some of the old WS forums from the time of the incident to time of the press conference, etc. Lots of great folks, as usual, but man... there are a few users in those who clearly were related to the family in some way & were very ugly. Same ugliness by about 4-5 Twitter accounts right now. These people are pretty easy to spot. Makes me kind of nauseous. Like, ad nausium comments about RZ being negligent because she shouldn't have gone to the bathroom leaving a 6 year old in a home of that size. But, not a one thought maybe JS should have took his kid with him when he went to the airport with the siblings and/or forgone his trip to (gym? golfing?) until mom picked up their son. Arrgghh... Listened to NR's interview yesterday, too. Same tone.

Poor Rebecca, she had to deal with all that animosity, kids who weren't her own & didn't respect her, with a father who had no compunction about leaving her in charge while he recreates alone on his custodial time. Then, this horrible murder & the ongoing disrespect of her memory. Pathologizing her because something bad happened to her once in childhood, because she was dedicated to her health & nutrition, because she felt the stress and doubt of a blended family life? It just hits me in the gut. Hard. And, what her family must be going through all this time. I soooooo want to see some justice for this family.

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While I am glad to know someone else "gets it", I know the weight of having to deal with the realization of what has happened. It's tolling. I am so, so thankful we have each other. ❤ Justice for Rebecca. She sure deserves it.

Peaceful said:

While I am glad to know someone else "gets it", I know the weight of having to deal with the realization of what has happened. It's tolling. I am so, so thankful we have each other. ❤ Justice for Rebecca. She sure deserves it.

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Thanks for your nice post, Peaceful. Unfortunately, I'm no stranger to the "revictimizing the victim" tragedies. It is painful and it is truly tolling. And, yes, I'm always thankful for those who "get it" and our ability to connect. It does help. <3 Agree--it's nice to find you & this forum, and to be here now watching the family get their day in court. Rebecca does, indeed, deserve justice, and her family deserves the peace of seeing that justice come.

Verboten said:

I've been slowly going through some of the old WS forums from the time of the incident to time of the press conference, etc. Lots of great folks, as usual, but man... there are a few users in those who clearly were related to the family in some way & were very ugly. Same ugliness by about 4-5 Twitter accounts right now. These people are pretty easy to spot. Makes me kind of nauseous. Like, ad nausium comments about RZ being negligent because she shouldn't have gone to the bathroom leaving a 6 year old in a home of that size. But, not a one thought maybe JS should have took his kid with him when he went to the airport with the siblings and/or forgone his trip to (gym? golfing?) until mom picked up their son. Arrgghh... Listened to NR's interview yesterday, too. Same tone.

Poor Rebecca, she had to deal with all that animosity, kids who weren't her own & didn't respect her, with a father who had no compunction about leaving her in charge while he recreates alone on his custodial time. Then, this horrible murder & the ongoing disrespect of her memory. Pathologizing her because something bad happened to her once in childhood, because she was dedicated to her health & nutrition, because she felt the stress and doubt of a blended family life? It just hits me in the gut. Hard. And, what her family must be going through all this time. I soooooo want to see some justice for this family.

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BBM

I've been observing the habits (language is a passion of mine!) and IMO it is one bitter person with multiple twitter accounts.

Inparadise said:

I would still like to know what Paul Pfingst was doing at the crime scene that morning???????? Did he just happen to be in the neighborhood?

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Not only WHAT was PP doing there, but WHY and HOW he got behind the crime scene tape!

Snip - BBM

Curiously, prominent San Diego defense attorney and former district attorney Paul Pfingst showed up at the mansion twice, once on Tuesday after Nalepa was discovered and again on July 18. During his second visit, Pfingst refused to identify a client but told reporters that he was not representing Jonah Shacknai.

www.thedailybeast.com/jonah-shacknai-mansion-deaths-girlfriend-rebecca-nalepa-son-max-die-within-days


Ex-DA Pfingst accused of hiding evidence

October 3, 2013

www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-paul-pfingst-evidence-murder-case-julie-harper-2013oct03-story

It's been a long time, but do I recall correctly that the detective who requested the voicemail recovery was familiar with how long the carrier archives deleted voicemail but waited a couple days past that deadline to request? Does anyone recall?

I understand that AS was scheduled for Thursday, but did not take the stand and instead it was the lead Detective on the stand. My question is if AS was present in court on Thursday. TIA.

Zinn said:

It's been a long time, but do I recall correctly that the detective who requested the voicemail recovery was familiar with how long the carrier archives deleted voicemail but waited a couple days past that deadline to request? Does anyone recall?

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Hey Zinn :wave: good article below!

Sheriff launches forensic exam of Zahau&#8217;s cell phone; new witness accounts reported - September 22, 2011

Snip-

Nesbit explained further that the voicemail "is not stored on the phone itself but once it's deleted from the phone, after a certain number of days it's also deleted from the AT&T server; and at that point it had been at least a week and she (the detective) knew that it was no longer on the server."

A spokesperson for AT&T did not respond to repeated News 8 messages seeking clarification on the company's ability to retrieve deleted voicemail messages.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported

*Lash* said:

Not only WHAT was PP doing there, but WHY and HOW he got behind the crime scene tape!

Snip - BBM

Curiously, prominent San Diego defense attorney and former district attorney Paul Pfingst showed up at the mansion twice, once on Tuesday after Nalepa was discovered and again on July 18. During his second visit, Pfingst refused to identify a client but told reporters that he was not representing Jonah Shacknai.

www.thedailybeast.com/jonah-shacknai-mansion-deaths-girlfriend-rebecca-nalepa-son-max-die-within-days


Ex-DA Pfingst accused of hiding evidence

October 3, 2013

www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-paul-pfingst-evidence-murder-case-julie-harper-2013oct03-story

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link to the original article about Pfingst's two visits to the mansion. It also includes the report from a neighbor that loud music was heard coming from the mansion the night of Rebecca's death.

FBEye said:

This shows campaign contributions from JS to Gore, from a Google search.

https://littlesis.org/person/83464-Jonah_Shacknai/political

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That link shows donations to Al Gore, not Sheriff Gore. They're not related. This would likely be for Al Gore's presidential campaign in 2000. It does show donations to other politicians and PACs, though. The OpenSecrets data used to compile this report only shows donations to federal candidates. To see if JS donated to Sheriff Gore, you would have to search databases for California campaign donations. States have separate campaign finance reporting systems. As info.

Betty P said:

Thanks for the link to the original article about Pfingst's two visits to the mansion. It also includes the report from a neighbor that loud music was heard coming from the mansion the night of Rebecca's death.

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Was anything ever said about what could have been used to play that music, such as a CD player in the guest room or master bedroom?

Tortoise said:

Was anything ever said about what could have been used to play that music, such as a CD player in the guest room or master bedroom?

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I don't have a link, Tortoise, so can take it as hearsay. It was one song being played over and over: "This is the End" by the Doors. Remember the white candle that was under the round wooden table in the courtyard along side Rebecca's discarted body that obviously was not taken into evidence and checked for finger prints? IMO the murderer(s) used the candle light to be able to see what was being done in the dark of night without the neighbors seeing...

Tortoise said:

BBM

I've been observing the habits (language is a passion of mine!) and IMO it is one bitter person with multiple twitter accounts.

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It was the combination of the nastiness of posts from people with incredible hatred for a dead woman they presumably didn't know, coupled with the sighting (now debunked for all intents and purposes) of DS at Spreckels that evening, coupled with the odd NR media interview + her admitted visit to Spreckels that evening + her text message to RZ that had several people convinced there was more than one person involved in RZ's torture and death.

The utter disrespect shown for Rebecca by Max's parents and other friends/relatives/supporters, coupled with the disrespect shown her by all those tasked with investigating her death has made me more than a little passionate to see some small bit of justice done for her. Mr. Greer is truly a hero. I doubt many attorneys would've gone up against so much power, influence, money, and government interference.

Carioca said:

I don't have a link, Tortoise, so can take it as hearsay. It was one song being played over and over: "This is the End" by the Doors. Remember the white candle that was under the round wooden table in the courtyard along side Rebecca's discarted body that obviously was not taken into evidence and checked for finger prints? IMO the murderer(s) used the candle light to be able to see what was being done in the dark of night without the neighbors seeing...

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To know what song was playing is very specific. This case is obviously one big coverup.


Here’s an old CNN transcript discussing the loud music. Dr. Drew Pinsky is the host. Jen Heger, Legal Editor for Radaronline is answering questions.

>>>snip



PINSKI: .....So, Jen, back to you. There were reports of something going on, a party or something the night before. Did police explain ever explain that or even look into that?

HEGER: There were reports of a party. RadarOnline.com -- as the story unfolded, I found that there was indeed no party. However, there was loud music that was ruminating from the Shacknai complex somewhere.

Now, could it have been a neighbor`s house? Perhaps. But there was definitely loud music going on.

PINSKY: Could it have been music being playing loud to sort of hide something that was going on, like somebody struggling or somebody calling out?

HEGER: Anything is possible.

PINSKY: Wow. All right.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/06/ddhln.01.html

*Lash* said:

Hey Zinn :wave: good article below!

Sheriff launches forensic exam of Zahau’s cell phone; new witness accounts reported - September 22, 2011

Snip-

Nesbit explained further that the voicemail "is not stored on the phone itself but once it's deleted from the phone, after a certain number of days it's also deleted from the AT&T server; and at that point it had been at least a week and she (the detective) knew that it was no longer on the server."

A spokesperson for AT&T did not respond to repeated News 8 messages seeking clarification on the company's ability to retrieve deleted voicemail messages.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15520745/...us-cell-phone-new-witnesses-accounts-reported

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Hello! During the trial on Thursday Mr Greer asked the detective if she had had an award or recognition of some kind regarding police work regarding cell phones or message retrieval and she said no she didn't know what he meant.

He then asked did she know there was a limit to the time that cell phone messages could be retrieved from the carrier. She said yes.

He then said, so, knowing there is a limit to the time the message is available, and this message was critical to the investigation, I assume that you immediately contacted AT and T to get a copy of the voicemail, is that right?

She said ( paraphrazing) “Well, we couldn’t get the software to work on the phone to retrieve the messages as it was a new type of phone, and wasn’t compatible so we were trying that and the message was already deleted on the phone...”

Mr Greer then ‘ This was AT and T, and you knew the limit was 30 days for them to hold messages, right?” She replied with ‘ I’m not sure but that sounds about right’ “...So you didn't check? “ she said “ no, but we did try “ , and Mr Greer added, but when you tried. it was too late?”. “Yes, it was too late...”

Mr Greer then asked “ was it 32 days later you tried?” “ I can’t recall” was the reply, and again Mr Greer said “...but it was just too late”

That’s when he went on to say “ so you had no message, but at least you could fingerprint the phone to see who used it, yes?”

“ no, we did not fingerprint the phone” ( gasp from the courtroom)

“ you didn’t fingerprint the phone(!)? WHY didn’t you fingerprint the phone?

“ Because we were trying to retrieve the messages so we had to use it, and the fingerprint powder is black and it may have dirtied up the buttons and got stuck in the keys causing a problem and we thought it was more important to try and retrieve the information manually....”

( this is to best of my recollection and I’m paraphrazing &#128578

Edited to add - please bear in mind this was after Mr Greer had introduced the possibility that someone other that RZ could easily have accessed the messages and the phone, such as if she was already bound and gagged by another person. I beleive that was why there was such a gasp from everyone when it was revealed the phone had not been fingerprinted.

Seattle1 said:

I understand that AS was scheduled for Thursday, but did not take the stand and instead it was the lead Detective on the stand. My question is if AS was present in court on Thursday. TIA.

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Hello, yes, AS was present in court all day. ( he has been in court every day, all day when I have been there)

The defense said on Tuesday last week that AS was unable to testify on Thursday because they were still awaiting exhibits and information Mr Greer needed to furnish them with them...and they would need more time to examine those before the testimony ( words to that effect) as they needed more time. The Judge agreed to take the detectives testimony out of sequence, and explained to the jury that they should not attach any importance to the fact the witnesses were out of order.

The detective was a witness for the defence, AS is a witness for the plaintiff

Link to Transcript of ‘Justice’ show ( see approx half way down for RZ aspect)

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1803/13/ptab.01.html

Thank you, Lash and Lezah.

Yes, the 30 day retrieval limit combined with knowledge of that limitation combined with requesting the data after 32 days is exactly what I was trying to remember.

Zinn said:

Thank you, Lash and Lezah.

Yes, the 30 day retrieval limit combined with knowledge of that limitation combined with requesting the data after 32 days is exactly what I was trying to remember.

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...it was dumbfounding that they did not try to retrieve the messages, especially with the pre-knowledge that there was a time limit involved...dumbfounding.

Tortoise said:

BBM

I've been observing the habits (language is a passion of mine!) and IMO it is one bitter person with multiple twitter accounts.

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Tortoise, That sounds right. I wasn't paying too close of attention to the language (great passion to have, btw!), and I still observed that at least 2 of the accounts were probably the same person. It's clearly someone in the courtroom or aware of the courtroom proceedings, as they harp on "the missing two pages," etc. <modsnip>