‘Mother hen’ to media villain: The life of Debbie Bradley - Kansas City Star 11/5/11

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

OT kind of, but I've been having this re-occurring thought that IF Jersey was involved and hid Baby Lisa, he is now behind bars, and if he does NOT have an accomplise, poor Lisa is no longer with us. The same goes with any perp who may be involved and is now fearful that LE is watching them from afar. they would not return to where they stashed the baby. This is really heart breaking to think that she may have been abandonned somewhere with plans at the time to remove her when it was safe. Now things may have changed.

 

[Whisperer]

It appears to me they started lawyering up on Oct 5th...since they had the "professor" by then. So within one day, one or both parents were retaining legal help. Has anyone heard of an innocent parent doing this on the first or second day their child is missing?

I say the local LE and the FBI have this figured out. I will stand by their conclusions whatever they are...pretty sure they have a good idea what happened.

 

[Whisperer]

OT kind of, but I've been having this re-occurring thought that IF Jersey was involved and hid Baby Lisa, he is now behind bars, and if he does NOT have an accomplise, poor Lisa is no longer with us. The same goes with any perp who may be involved and is now fearful that LE is watching them from afar. they would not return to where they stashed the baby. This is really heart breaking to think that she may have been abandonned somewhere with plans at the time to remove her when it was safe. Now things may have changed.

If Jersey took this baby from the crib, neither parent would be lawyered up. If he was crazy enough to pull this off, he surely left some DNA or evidence behind...and DB & JI would be off the hook.

 

[Chris_Texas]

That's not what is being looked for. What people are asking for is some statement from LE that "unrestricted" did NOT mean without their lawyers.

Some people insist that LE didn't mean that, that "unrestricted" doesn't mean "without a lawyer" - but that is what the lawyers took it to mean, and LE has never said that the attorneys are wrong.

An interview like that may be, as you say, a waste of time, but it is everyone's constitutional right, and it certainly does not mean that the parents are guilty if they refuse. If the parent's were refusing to talk to LE at all, and was not answering their questions it might mean something, but that's not the case. As recently as a few days ago, LE confirmed that the family is answering questions. Anything LE needs to ask them can be asked in their living room - it doesn't need to be in the police station interview room. jmo

100% correct. Every America has the right to refuse to answer questions which might be potentially self incriminating. And further, such a refusal cannot be used in court as evidence.

None of which has anything to do with finding Lisa Irwin pr discovering what happened that night. That is LE's goal, Deborah's goal is to avoid that. And while our celebrity weeping mommie cannot be judged in court for refusing to cooperate, that does not armor her against any rational conclusions the public might reach from her refusal.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

That is for sure. And possibly never in a case without a body...

I can think of some cases where the guilty party confessed and then led LE to the body. But that certainly is the exception and not the rule, I'm sure.

 

[Donjeta]

I think the amount of evidence the police have might make a difference. If it's clear they've all but solved the case and know what happened the perp might more easily come to the conclusion that a confession and a plea deal is his best shot but if it seems that the police are just shooting in the dark and don't really have anything solid against him, their accusations are pure guesswork, it could make him feel safer and he might as well wait it out.

 

[Tuffy]

The one thing I got out of the life of DB is that she is histrionic...appears always was...still checking.

My thoughts as well, Whisperer. There is a histrionic personality disorder too:

Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, including an excessive need for approval and inappropriately seductive behavior, usually beginning in early adulthood. These individuals are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious.

IMO her crying fits on TV appear forced and fake to me. If that is how she looks when she is truly upset, that's really too bad. If it's all an act (and I believe it is), then she is not a good actor.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder"]Histrionic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Well Done 99]

I say the local LE and the FBI have this figured out. I will stand by their conclusions whatever they are...pretty sure they have a good idea what happened.

ITA. And, if they do, unfortunately it indicates little Lisa is no longer living ... if she was, they'd have her back.
IMO LE themselves have been through a tough time with this one, not least due to the fact that they have been suspected and even accused of not doing enough, and are either awaiting confirmation on something related to evidence or that last tidbit that will put the chains on the person they have all-but proven to themselves to be the culprit.
I'd say they have done very well to remain mum on what they know ... for fear of compromise.

 

[NancyA]

My thoughts as well, Whisperer. There is a histrionic personality disorder too:

Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, including an excessive need for approval and inappropriately seductive behavior, usually beginning in early adulthood. These individuals are lively, dramatic, vivacious, enthusiastic, and flirtatious.

I'm reading Casey Anthony, Diane Downs, Amanda Knox....I'm just not reading DB. Who knows though? I've said before I'm not a fan of armchair psyching so it could be down to a strong resistance in me to succumb to the temptation to squeeze potential perps into two-dimensional cookie cutter outlines combined with the fact that I'm a bit jaded by the amateur dramatics in so many of these cases.

Here the feeling for me is that someone else is pulling everyone's strings including those of the family. I'm also getting a growing sense of fading hope for Lisa as this case drags on.

 

[curvecuti]

You might want to check out the Reid Technique. It is the is the basis of the widely used "Criminal Interrogation and Confessions" manual. If your Uni has a decent CJ Dept. they teach it. It walks the investigators through how to break down a suspect, step by step, and it is actually CHILLING, when you imagine it being used on an innocent person.

And, you may be interested in reading some research on modern interview technique:
http://www.psychologicalscience.org/pdf/pspi/pspi5_2_11-14.pdf
http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleID=88118#SEC2

I am not making this stuff up!

Nope. As I said the students are taught interrogation by in service detectives. And the "Reid technique" is used if the person interviewed is a suspect from the investigation and evidence the detectives have gathered. It is very effective, especially if the persons are lying. However, I have never seen the Reid technique suggest calling anyone "white trash". And anyone that taught that would be terminated from here. The Reid technique is a tool. And yes it can be abused. But as I said before, most LEO are not out to frame innocent people. They are out to obtain the truth. If that means that the parents are made somewhat uncomfortable during the questioning, then I have no problem with that. The police are there for Lisa, they are working for her to find out what happened. Sometimes finding the truth involves making people uncomfortable.

As far as I know the police have not commented on what "technique" of questioning they used on DB or JI. So the argument here is moot, imo. Parents of missing children will do anything to find their child. Most innocent people want to clear themselves and will do what it takes for that to happen. As I said before I hope DB and JI are innocent and are just very, very, misguided.

 

[NancyA]

Nope. As I said the students are taught interrogation by in service detectives. And the "Reid technique" is used if the person interviewed is a suspect from the investigation and evidence the detectives have gathered. It is very effective, especially if the persons are lying. However, I have never seen the Reid technique suggest calling anyone "white trash". And anyone that taught that would be terminated from here. The Reid technique is a tool. And yes it can be abused. But as I said before, most LEO are not out to frame innocent people. They are out to obtain the truth. If that means that the parents are made somewhat uncomfortable during the questioning, then I have no problem with that. The police are there for Lisa, they are working for her to find out what happened. Sometimes finding the truth involves making people uncomfortable.

As far as I know the police have not commented on what "technique" of questioning they used on DB or JI. So the argument here is moot, imo. Parents of missing children will do anything to find their child. Most innocent people want to clear themselves and will do what it takes for that to happen. As I said before I hope DB and JI are innocent and are just very, very, misguided.

BBM. Couldn't have put it better.

 

[justamommy]

It appears to me they started lawyering up on Oct 5th...since they had the "professor" by then. So within one day, one or both parents were retaining legal help. Has anyone heard of an innocent parent doing this on the first or second day their child is missing?

I say the local LE and the FBI have this figured out. I will stand by their conclusions whatever they are...pretty sure they have a good idea what happened.

I'm not sure when they started seeking legal help. I guess it would have had to be around then, I know O'brien was present for the Oct 8 interview.

I agree that LE/FBI know what is going on. They have kept things really close which is great for their case. I can't wait to find out what happened on that terrible night. :twocents:

 

[vlpate]

That's not what is being looked for. What people are asking for is some statement from LE that "unrestricted" did NOT mean without their lawyers.

Some people insist that LE didn't mean that, that "unrestricted" doesn't mean "without a lawyer" - but that is what the lawyers took it to mean, and LE has never said that the attorneys are wrong.An interview like that may be, as you say, a waste of time, but it is everyone's constitutional right, and it certainly does not mean that the parents are guilty if they refuse. If the parent's were refusing to talk to LE at all, and was not answering their questions it might mean something, but that's not the case. As recently as a few days ago, LE confirmed that the family is answering questions. Anything LE needs to ask them can be asked in their living room - it doesn't need to be in the police station interview room. jmo

BEM: The defense lawyers count on the public believing everything they say, and they say just about anything to sway the court of public opinion - especially when it comes to making LE look like the big bad boogey men/women out to get their fearful, innocent clients. Defense attorneys say a heck of a lot more than LE says in media interviews - something the lawyers know and use. They also, apparently, count on a good portion of that public to lack even a remedial knowledge of the law.

Once Miranda rights are read, and the suspect/detainee invokes his right to an attorney, LE must, by law, respect their request and all further interviews must be conducted with suspect/detainee's lawyer present. Remedial. To believe the KCPD demanded interviews with the Bradwins sans representation is to believe they would blatantly violate their Miranda rights and therefore obtain information that would not even be admissable in a court of law.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/07/baby-lisa%e2%80%99s-grandfather-says-birthday-will-be-tough/?hpt=ng_bn3
"Police have told HLN that the parents have not agreed to sit down for separate, unrestricted interviews with detectives since October 8. Their attorney said to ABC that they are being cooperative but they do not want to be questioned by investigators who they feel have already concluded that they are guilty."

BEM: Here we have the real truth of the matter, IMO. As for interviewing them in their living room, it's not tea and crumpets, there has to be a controlled environment. Phillip was taken to the station for his interview, they could have sat on the stoop and chatted, but that's just not how questioning works.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a divorce in progress - followed shortly thereafter, by a marriage.

 

[Abby Normal]

Originally Posted by Whisperer
It appears to me they started lawyering up on Oct 5th...since they had the "professor" by then. So within one day, one or both parents were retaining legal help. Has anyone heard of an innocent parent doing this on the first or second day their child is missing?

I say the local LE and the FBI have this figured out. I will stand by their conclusions whatever they are...pretty sure they have a good idea what happened.

IIRC they interrogated on the 4th and 5th. The 6th is the day they were accused of not cooperating after 2 days of interrogations, and they quickly replied that they just wanted to go home at 10:00 and weren't refusing to cooperate.

IMO, that's when trust was lost and the shutting down began. They started out, first couple days, doing everything they were asked and Young even said their story had no holes. Now, it could of broke down from lack of trust, feeling that LE wouldn't clear them no matter what they did, OR because LE began lacking trust in them and looking closer. Nobody knows but those who were in the room. IMO either are possible.

The parents go back on October 8th with Obrien because of the break down of trust. IMO it wasn't lawyering up, it was a volunteer law professor.

They "lawyered up" when JT came on which was conveniently *right* after admitting to drinking. I think it's been downhill ever since. I truly believe that he's their biggest problem. And not him as a person- just the whole thing. BS, wealthy benefactor, distant cousin, all of them.

I'll get links if you need them, but both the "no holes" and "Obrien" comments/info are easily googlable.

 

[cityslick]

OMG,if I had been given any chance of saving my son I would have endured torture to save his life.I was never given the chance.

I don't think that makes me an unusual mother.Quite the contrary ,it's what parents do when their child's life is threatened.

To not put themselves through another LE interview when that is their only hope of finding their daughter???:waitasec:That's unimaginable to me .

Analyzing the families actions should start in one place ,PANIC! DISTRESS,DISBELIEF,GRIEF,SHOCK,PLEASE HELP US ,WHAT DO WE DO TO SAVE OUR BABY?

We don't know what was said during the LE interview,but I just can't fathom blowing LE off if my baby was kidnapped. Let them say what they want about me,think what they want,as long as they also keep looking for her !
What is wrong with these parents :banghead:

They are not ignoring LE, why does this continue to be insinuated? Nothing that LE is saying states they are not talking to LE at all. I believe the word used recently was 'cooperative'.

I will ask again, how in the world do you know what they are doing and not exactly doing when the only info you've got to go on is the word 'un-cooperative'? How do you know what (if any) communication they have been having with LE/FBI/etc on a daily basis when not even LE is divulging that information?

 

[tehcloser]

They are not ignoring LE, why does this continue to be insinuated? Nothing that LE is saying states they are not talking to LE at all. I believe the word used recently was 'cooperative'.

I will ask again, how in the world do you know what they are doing and not exactly doing when the only info you've got to go on is the word 'un-cooperative'? How do you know what (if any) communication they have been having with LE/FBI/etc on a daily basis when not even LE is divulging that information?

So you think they may still be talking to LE, just not co-operating when they do? :waitasec: Well, I GUESS that's possible, but why would they talk to them at all if they are not going to co-operate?

 

[tehcloser]

And I also think if they were talking to LE in any way, their attorney would be singing it from the roof tops telling everyone they WERE co-operating.

 

[cityslick]

And I also think if they were talking to LE in any way, their attorney would be singing it from the roof tops telling everyone they WERE co-operating.

He has been, he said they had good communication with the FBI. I'd have the fetch the link though. Here is is:

I will tell you that there will be every necessary interview will be had with law enforcement. I've had a very good dialogue with the FBI."


http://www.kmbc.com/r/29635756/detail.html

 

[cityslick]

So you think they may still be talking to LE, just not co-operating when they do? :waitasec: Well, I GUESS that's possible, but why would they talk to them at all if they are not going to co-operate?

Well, that goes back to the word cooperate. What stops LE from visiting them, asking them a question or two and leaving? I don't think LE is completely blacked out from the family is the point I'm making.

 

[tehcloser]

The FBI and the local law enforcement officers are working the case together. I think it's more lawyer spin saying they are co-operating with one and not the other. It's probably something like there is 1 FBI officer that they like because he has not accused them of anything while they spoke with him at some point. That's a huge difference from really working with LE.