Elisaa444
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Whoa! I did not know this. This is perplexing to me...she just recalled this?! Wow.
MOO; and more MOO
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‘Take Care of Maya’ - Kowalski v. Johns Hopkins Trial
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Whoa! I did not know this. This is perplexing to me...she just recalled this?! Wow.
MOO; and more MOO
Yeah, I wonder why she didn't tell her father right after she got out of the hospital so he could have filed a police report.
One of her lawyers just found out about it and two years after it happened, she told a male friend about it and the male friend would be a witness etc.
Just yesterday, she and and another one if her lawyers went to the police and filed a complaint and they don't even know if it is a JH employee who did this.
Court TV also said they would keep viewers up to date.
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Elisaa444
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The video where Court TV talks about it is on their Facebook page
Imo some of you have never experienced chronic pain yourselves, or had a child who has SUFFERED with a relatively rare condition that invites all kinds of speculation: faking, exaggerating, malingering...
Add in Beata who had a funny accent, was emotionally wound tight, (what loving parent wouldn't be in her situation??) but mainly and I think this is crux to the matter-- she was an educated health professional herself trying to advocate for her daughter.
Off label use of medication has become common and accepted. Respite from debilitating pain, even for a short amount of time, has therapeutic value beyond the common public understanding.
Ketamine isn't evil. It does have therapeutic purpose. Foreign clinics including those located in Mexico are not necessarily evil. I am sure Beata researched her BUTT off before taking her precious daughter there for treatment.
I can tell you from personal experience that no matter your credentials or education, if you are perceived as Less Than (ie "foreign", "high strung" "overbearing" "uppity" etc) ignorant people with tenuous egos usually will go on the offensive if they perceive you as too emotional, too forceful, too pretending to be on intellectual par with them will become defensive. So will so-called professionals whose main identity is "I am the child abuse expert, thats my job, and that is what I'll always see", as she stated outside of the jury's presence (for some unknown reason. Idk why the jury wasnt privy to that testimony).
Quotes are not hers, they are me paraphrasing.
It's sooo frustrating to see all this ill-will towards this family who have lost so much through no fault of their own.
Add in Beata who had a funny accent, was emotionally wound tight, (what loving parent wouldn't be in her situation??) but mainly and I think this is crux to the matter-- she was an educated health professional herself trying to advocate for her daughter.
Off label use of medication has become common and accepted. Respite from debilitating pain, even for a short amount of time, has therapeutic value beyond the common public understanding.
Ketamine isn't evil. It does have therapeutic purpose. Foreign clinics including those located in Mexico are not necessarily evil. I am sure Beata researched her BUTT off before taking her precious daughter there for treatment.
I can tell you from personal experience that no matter your credentials or education, if you are perceived as Less Than (ie "foreign", "high strung" "overbearing" "uppity" etc) ignorant people with tenuous egos usually will go on the offensive if they perceive you as too emotional, too forceful, too pretending to be on intellectual par with them will become defensive. So will so-called professionals whose main identity is "I am the child abuse expert, thats my job, and that is what I'll always see", as she stated outside of the jury's presence (for some unknown reason. Idk why the jury wasnt privy to that testimony).
Quotes are not hers, they are me paraphrasing.
It's sooo frustrating to see all this ill-will towards this family who have lost so much through no fault of their own.
sapphire blue
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please take particular note of the second paragraph
‘Attorney Greg Anderson said that while Maya was in “imprisonment” at the hospital, a man who appeared to be a doctor came into her room and pulled down her pajamas and underwear and stared at and touched her private parts.
“Maya suppressed this until about four weeks ago, but she did put in some notes to both the psychiatrist there at the time Dr. Katzenstein and later to Dr. Henschke, the two female psychiatrists that she saw along the way.” Anderson said.’
17-year-old ‘Take Care of Maya’ patient who just won bombshell $261M malpractice case files criminal complaint against hospital alleging sexual abuse
Attorney Greg Anderson said that while Maya was in “imprisonment” at the hospital, a man who appeared to be a doctor came into her room and pulled down her pajamas and underwear and sta…
nypost.com
I would also point out that Maya was a child who was a patient at the hospital. The hospital had a duty of care to protect her from harm - particularly since her parents were obstructed from even seeing her, let alone staying with her.
I’ll also point out that sexual assault victims often suppress what’s happened to them, it can take years for them to be able to speak about it.
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sapphire blue
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how many other families have suffered similar because of the actions of JHACH? hopefully JHACH will learn some serious lessons from this case.
as for financially ruining JHACH that’s heir own fault, and the reality is they will appeal and if a settlement is eventually paid it will be from JHACHs insurer.
dmac55
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Re: “Nor are opiates.”
Children can be prescribed opiates (it’s approved in the U.S.)
Example:
Opioids for Pain Relief | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
Opioids for Pain Relief | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia
A doctor may prescribe an opioid pain medicine (also called a narcotic) for your child. Learn more about how opioids work.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Video is 11 + minutes.
Maya Kowalski is filing a complaint against Johns Hopkins All Children's hospital for an alleged sexual assault.
Maya Kowalski is filing a complaint against Johns Hopkins All Children's hospital for an alleged sexual assault.
IDK
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Maybe because she was only 10 when she was finally released and her mother had just died?
She mentioned it to the neuropsych doctor at JHACH during her hospitalization, and nothing was done.
It might have taken until she was a little older to realize how grossly inappropriate it was. Just one possible explanation.
Surprisingly, a 10-year-old child did not have a family member or a guardian remain on-site. Is this a standard procedure at the hospital? It's so different in my state when a child is hospitalized. When a child is in ICU, a guardian remains on the premises.
BeginnerSleuther
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I don't really agree with that. Again, hindsight is 20/20. But imagine a scenario where it's now proven 10 years later that Maya actually was being abused and that JHACH suspected it at the time, but didn't want to get involved in a complex case. Imagine what we'd be saying at that point. There's a reason that doctors and social workers are mandated reporters of child abuse. I do think they overstepped, but I don't believe it happened at the beginning.
Also, a hospital can't turn a patient away. Every hospital can treat CRPS. If they feel another hospital can treat it better, then they arrange transfer. If they feel it's an outpatient condition, then they discharge or don't admit. But in Maya's case, they felt she needed inpatient treatment so they admitted her for full workup. A hospital isn't required to affirm a diagnosis made elsewhere. If I go to my hospital and get admitted and I have a dx of MS, they're not required to believe that dx. They can do their own workup to confirm it's not this or that. That's what JHACH did, it sounds like. They were working Maya up and saw these red flags, which made them suspect abuse. After that, the decision is made for them and stated in state law in every state in the US. They have to report.
JMO.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Ethen Shapiro, lawyer representing Florida hospital in Maya Kowalski case, told Court TV he feels confident his team got their story across.
BeginnerSleuther
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I'm not seeing ill-will. I'm seeing people, like myself, who feel that the hospital was wrong in some respects, but understand how this became complicated and how these things happened. The facts are that Ketamine is only approved for surgery and diagnostic procedures. IT is not approved to treat pain. And yes, while we use off-label meds quite a bit, using a medication that can kill a child for pain is quite different from ordinary uses of off-label meds. I don't know a doctor in the US who would have done that and one exists and a child dies from it, that doctor should and would be held criminally responsible.
So again, no ill will at all. I feel bad for the family. But feeling bad for the family doesn't mean that I think the hospital is the devil in the situation either.
MOO.
I don't know how to insert links here but if you search ketamine + pain, there are clinics in the U.S. who do use ketamine (inhalation) for pain treatment. Reputable clinics, not just those currently popping up to treat psych issues. I do believe that some of the latter may possibly be jumping on the proverbial bandwagon and are too easily prescribing when there are other proven therapies (which take more time and more intensive work).
Yes, Maya's previously reported dosage sounds enormous to some of us, but we are not specialists. CRPS is highly & uniquely niche. Few are qualified to address the issue and their modes of treatment are only recently being reported in the journals.
Another point I'd like to make is this: Maya was a very young child when this nightmare began. Can you imagine the psychological impact her suffering had on her family? Day in and day out. I suspect every single member was 24/7 strung tighter than a violin string. (I'm more than impressed by how even her brother- a child himself at the time - was able to show such compassion and concern). Imagine Beata's feelings, even physically imagine what her cortisol levels must have been! As her mother, she must have been beside herself, just wanting her little girl to STOP SUFFERING.
And when she offered up what had worked in the past she was met with derision. And worse.
It's fine to say that the hospital was just erring on the (rightful) side of caution-- initially. IMO, yes, they had that right but they also had the obligation to do their own research into Maya's previous medical history, diagnosis, and treatment. THEY DID NOT.
Instead they labled Beata as pushy, strange, and unstable. They labled Maya as faking it because (while unable to bear weight and walk) she could still move her legs. These are health professionals??? For crying out loud!! Honestly, it is unbelievable. IMO.
Maya's appalling "care" at that hospital was based wholly on character judgement. And a so-called child abuse expert with an apparently huge and invested ego who admitted (in court!) that the only side she ever takes is to find against the family because that's her job.
Now people are groaning about
litigation regarding a possible child SA that occurred while Maya was under their (imo forcible) care. Like this girl would just make this up too. The most vulnerable and personally intrusive charge a woman/girl/person can bring but you know, for money. Because she is a money grabber.
It boggles the mind.
I'm sorry but I call that ill will.
Yes, Maya's previously reported dosage sounds enormous to some of us, but we are not specialists. CRPS is highly & uniquely niche. Few are qualified to address the issue and their modes of treatment are only recently being reported in the journals.
Another point I'd like to make is this: Maya was a very young child when this nightmare began. Can you imagine the psychological impact her suffering had on her family? Day in and day out. I suspect every single member was 24/7 strung tighter than a violin string. (I'm more than impressed by how even her brother- a child himself at the time - was able to show such compassion and concern). Imagine Beata's feelings, even physically imagine what her cortisol levels must have been! As her mother, she must have been beside herself, just wanting her little girl to STOP SUFFERING.
And when she offered up what had worked in the past she was met with derision. And worse.
It's fine to say that the hospital was just erring on the (rightful) side of caution-- initially. IMO, yes, they had that right but they also had the obligation to do their own research into Maya's previous medical history, diagnosis, and treatment. THEY DID NOT.
Instead they labled Beata as pushy, strange, and unstable. They labled Maya as faking it because (while unable to bear weight and walk) she could still move her legs. These are health professionals??? For crying out loud!! Honestly, it is unbelievable. IMO.
Maya's appalling "care" at that hospital was based wholly on character judgement. And a so-called child abuse expert with an apparently huge and invested ego who admitted (in court!) that the only side she ever takes is to find against the family because that's her job.
Now people are groaning about
litigation regarding a possible child SA that occurred while Maya was under their (imo forcible) care. Like this girl would just make this up too. The most vulnerable and personally intrusive charge a woman/girl/person can bring but you know, for money. Because she is a money grabber.
It boggles the mind.
I'm sorry but I call that ill will.
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IDK
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Even the chief executive of the hospital system admitted there was a culture of “retribution and retaliation” at the hospital. It doesn’t take a quantum leap to recognize this could apply to families as well, IMO. Institutional culture runs deep.
BeginnerSleuther
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SBMFF.
This is not the ketamine they're talking about in this case. It's a different formulation with different risks and side effects. In this case, they are talking specifically about IV Ketamine. That's what it's alleged that the family wanted.
CRPS isn't actually highly and uniquely niche any more than Lyme disease is. CRPS can be treated by any physician (and in many patient cases it's treated by an internal medicine doc without further subspecialization), though it tends to fall under neurology in most hospitals. But regardless, any doctor is qualified to address the issue and their modes of treatment because there aren't enough subspecialists.
Wait, how do we know they didn't?? I wasn't following the trial as closely as most here, but did it come out that they didn't research her previous history, diagnosis, and treatment, or was it that they just didn't agree with her previous history, diagnosis and treatment?
Some JMO, some based on my profession as a licensed physician.
This is not the ketamine they're talking about in this case. It's a different formulation with different risks and side effects. In this case, they are talking specifically about IV Ketamine. That's what it's alleged that the family wanted.
CRPS isn't actually highly and uniquely niche any more than Lyme disease is. CRPS can be treated by any physician (and in many patient cases it's treated by an internal medicine doc without further subspecialization), though it tends to fall under neurology in most hospitals. But regardless, any doctor is qualified to address the issue and their modes of treatment because there aren't enough subspecialists.
Wait, how do we know they didn't?? I wasn't following the trial as closely as most here, but did it come out that they didn't research her previous history, diagnosis, and treatment, or was it that they just didn't agree with her previous history, diagnosis and treatment?
Some JMO, some based on my profession as a licensed physician.
cocomod
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IMVHO, when the parents wanted Maya released from the hospital - before they were charged with abuse - the hospital should have allowed them to take her to another facility for treatment.
RSBM
You are correct, in this article it states that they did call the original physician and he warned them not to accuse the family of abuse.
www.thecut.com
On October 11, Kirkpatrick’s office received a request for Maya’s medical records, and he asked to speak to the person conducting the investigation. When Smith called him back, she told him that she believed Maya was a victim of child abuse. The doctor reminded Smith that he had been the one to first diagnose Maya with CRPS; he’d also recommended the procedure in Mexico.
That evening, Kirkpatrick sent a memo to a colleague. “I cautioned Dr. Smith about accusing a family member of criminal conduct as she moves forward with her investigation,” he wrote, noting that doing so “could result in needless and permanent harm to the child and family.” Separately, Hanna advised Smith that Munchausen by proxy was a common misdiagnosis in CRPS cases.
RSBM
You are correct, in this article it states that they did call the original physician and he warned them not to accuse the family of abuse.
What Happened to Maya Kowalski
When a 10-year-old girl complained of mysterious pain, a doctor suspected child abuse. How far would she go to prove it?
www.thecut.com
On October 11, Kirkpatrick’s office received a request for Maya’s medical records, and he asked to speak to the person conducting the investigation. When Smith called him back, she told him that she believed Maya was a victim of child abuse. The doctor reminded Smith that he had been the one to first diagnose Maya with CRPS; he’d also recommended the procedure in Mexico.
That evening, Kirkpatrick sent a memo to a colleague. “I cautioned Dr. Smith about accusing a family member of criminal conduct as she moves forward with her investigation,” he wrote, noting that doing so “could result in needless and permanent harm to the child and family.” Separately, Hanna advised Smith that Munchausen by proxy was a common misdiagnosis in CRPS cases.
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BeginnerSleuther
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IMVHO, when the parents wanted Maya released from the hospital - before they were charged with abuse - the hospital should have allowed them to take her to another facility for treatment.
RSBM
You are correct, in this article it states that they did call the original physician and he warned them not to accuse the family of abuse.
What Happened to Maya Kowalski
When a 10-year-old girl complained of mysterious pain, a doctor suspected child abuse. How far would she go to prove it?
On October 11, Kirkpatrick’s office received a request for Maya’s medical records, and he asked to speak to the person conducting the investigation. When Smith called him back, she told him that she believed Maya was a victim of child abuse. The doctor reminded Smith that he had been the one to first diagnose Maya with CRPS; he’d also recommended the procedure in Mexico.
That evening, Kirkpatrick sent a memo to a colleague. “I cautioned Dr. Smith about accusing a family member of criminal conduct as she moves forward with her investigation,” he wrote, noting that doing so “could result in needless and permanent harm to the child and family.” Separately, Hanna advised Smith that Munchausen by proxy was a common misdiagnosis in CRPS cases.
Thank you. So as it turns out, the JHACH doctors actually did ask for medical records and prior diagnosis. They just didn't agree with it/them.
cocomod
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I can honestly say that I don’t know how I would react if my daughter was in constant pain. My kids are everything to me - and when they are young they DEPEND on a parent to take care of them. Coming from a different country with an accent and different culture also may have had a bearing here on perceived abuse. I am glad they won the case.