17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[JeannaT]

And, I've also always thought it was Trayvon screaming because it stopped immediately after the gunshot. I just could not understand how George was able to stop screaming for help when he was so severely injured and had to now get Trayvon's lifeless body off of his very injured body?

GZ would stop screaming for help too, if the man he feared was now incapacitated.

Either one who was screaming for help would stop immediately after the shot.

And GZ wasn't "so severely injured" that he couldn't get up. You don't have to take a beating before you can shoot if you have reasonable fear that you WILL be injured.

 

[LolaMoon08]

What racial slur on the 911 call? I've heard no racial slur on it and I've listened several times. At one point it sounds like he says punk and besides the audio is pretty poor to determine what was even said.

This whole ordeal reads like some Hollywood script that media is writing all the while helping to further eventual violence against GZ. Is this the 1800's where posses can form and take out someone and do anything they please? I hope not because if that does happen it will in fact be the media's fault. It will have set us back 150 years.

There's no reason to not believe GZ's story that he went back to his car after he hung up, since witness state he did. But to make for a more exciting story, GZ hunted down TM down and killed him in cold blood.

I'm not on GZ's side exactly, but I'm not on the media's side either. I'm on no witchhunt, but for facts. Someone died and GZ should have to do a some time over it. But I do not believe it was unless there is a reason otherwise. And tehre could be no one really knows but GZ himself and witness'

Everyone has their own opinion on what it says. I believe the FBI is enhancing the tape. I'll trust that they get it right.

 

[Tulessa]

Imo, this tragic case has nothing to do with racial profiling. Nor do I think this was a hate crime. And yes, I did hear the racial slur in the 911 call. I simply do not feel that slur in conjunction with the unfolding of events, as I presently understand them (i.e., from listening to the 911 calls, link ), supports the contention that this tragedy was a hate crime as outlined in the "Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act" ( link ) That is, I do not think GZ targeted and proceeded to shoot Trayvon purely bc he was black.

I think instead, this is a case of a hotheaded, wanna-be cop, who, from my read, regularly harassed neighborhood residents ( link ) and made chronic nuisance calls to the SPD ( link ). Otherwise put, imnsho, this guy was a accident waiting to happen. Someone who was bound to shoot someone, anyone, sooner or later. The recent voice findings ( link ), imho, refutes GZ's claim that the shooting was an act of self defense. Which, again, supports my contention that this guy was a walking time-bomb.

Aside: I wish they would post all of GZ's 911 calls as well as any other voice recordings they might have of the guy, bc, imho, he def sounds intoxicated in this call. ( link ) And, in light of the number of calls he made over the past eight years, I cannot help but to wonder if there might be an underlying substance abuse issue, or possibly even some sort of brain injury, that might explain (not excuse, of course), his, imho, reckless behavior.

I don't post much in this thread but I just had to respond to your wonderful post. IMO you nailed it!

I promised beachy I would be good six months ago and I never break a promise.:blushing:

 

[Cher352]

One of our wonderful members, I forget the username, brought up any tapes that may have been taken at 7-11. At first I was like, what would that have to do with what happened in the complex? Now that I think about it, I think everything leading up to the shooting that night is important.

I don't know how long 7-11's keep their tapes? I can only hope that the LE investigating this shooting had enough intelligence that when they heard Trayvon had gone to the store, that they immediately went and got the tapes.

Also, with the store being so close, that could have been the store Zimmerman was also heading to? I know that Zimmerman said he was on his way to the store, but I would like to rule out that he had already been to the store? Entrance gate cameras should show this too?

Does anyone know what building Zimmerman lived in? Does it show on that map what building he lives in?

I am hoping they have all the videos too to help tie down the time line.

GZ said his brother was on his way to Target and some posted on the last thread that the 7-11 was about 2 miles away. I have seen a map linked here but it didn't have these 2 locations marked on them nor the apt location at the time I saw it. Anyone know if there is another map out there that has the aptbuilding and these 2 stores show?

 

[vlpate]

Looks like the Orlando Sentinel had Tom Owen do the tests.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

ETA. I didn't see if the Orlando Sentinel paid him for this or not.

Seems he's had two famous cases:

http://www.owlinvestigations.com/famous_cases.html
"Audio Expert: Britney Recording Was 'Manipulated'
A highly-respected audio expert tells TMZ ... Jason Alexander's recording of the woman he claims is Britney Spears "has been electronically stepped on."

Tom Owen of OWL Investigations, and Chairman of the Audio Engineering Society Standards Committee of Forensic Audio, tells TMZ, the tape was "doctored" to such a severe extent, there's no way to conduct a meaningful voice-recognition test."

Damage control - reasonable doubt. Almost a week ago the special prosecutor said she was having her experts test the tapes for the possible racial epithet and the 911 call where the screams are heard. Something tells me Crump already knows the answer.

Ed Gelb and the Ramsey case comes to mind.
.

 

[LolaMoon08]

GZ would stop screaming for help too, if the man he feared was now incapacitated.

Either one who was screaming for help would stop immediately after the shot.

I'm sure the State will hire their own experts to do the voice analysis. But for now, the experts who have listened to the tape, say that it is not Zimmerman?

 

[m00c0w]

Interesting! It appears that he has been called to give his expert opinion for testimony in trials. Very, very interesting that they use this same technology for terrorists.

But that would be more for looking at recorded phone calls and wiretaps. It's very logical to think that they could match talking voices very easily. It's the difference in demeanor, register, and stress when someone screams like that that makes me wonder.

 

[Ironhorse]

I'd been to two rally's over this incident already so I didn't attend today's. Instead I went to the gun show in Orange county. It was the busiest show I've seen in years could hardly walk around the place.<br />
<br />
<modsnip><br />
<br />
I've been keeping abreast of all the info being released/leaked to the public. I still remain committed to my first impression that this incident was purely a snowballed incident that ended in tragedy. Each individual let their suspicion of the other get the better of them. <br />
<br />
Funny thing happened yesterday that gave me pause to think. I was washing a car and down the street I heard a forceful bark from a dog. This bark wasn't the typical bark from a dog but rather one of posturing. Then I heard a man shouting get out of here as I turned to look I saw the dog and a man in a stand off... Now what's the importance of this and what does it have to do with the incident in Sanford. Well, in some ways it mirrored what Zimmerman/Martin must have experienced. In that moment it didn't matter what the history was of the neighbor or the dog, for each was entitled to defend themselves. Had the dog attacked the man would have been been justified in self-defense. Had the man attacked the dog then the dog had every right to bite him... <br />
<br />
See, all the rest doesn't really matter. Some say Zimmerman shouldn't have gotten out of his truck. Maybe if Martin hadn't been suspended from school he wouldn't have been in Sanford. See there is all sorts of what if's and trying to lay blame on such things are of no material importance. The only thing that really defines this incident is what happened at the moment Zimmerman fired the shot. Was he defending his well being or was he not.

ONELOVE: I brought the above post over from the last thread, posted by Ironhorse, I think.

While it is beautifully written and I love the style, there are two observations to make about it.

One is that the dog in this scenario SHOULD have been restrained by the owner. It is the owner's legal responsibility. Some innocent victims have been killed in such incidents; some we have read about here at Websleuths. If the dog HAD bitten, it would NOT have been justifiable UNDER THE LAW. Most of us here would judge the dog owner to be in the wrong and the man to be within his legal rights to defend himself. It's really NOT an "all the rest of the factors don't really matter" situation AT ALL.

That's a would've/could've/should've thing... When you've got a barking dog facing you down you're not concerned about who it belongs to, where it came from. It's the 'MOMENT' that's your immediate concern none of the rest matters... The dog by nature has every right to defend itself from what it perceives as a threat just the same as the man does.

Secondly, bringing up Trayvon's suspension from school, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how and why he was killed, and comparing that to Zimmerman's conscious CHOICE to get out of his truck and stalk Trayvon with a GUN is coming from two entirely different universes. One has exactly nothing to do with the other. The comment "trying to lay blame is of no material importance" is most intriguing. This is, in fact, what a fair, competent, unbiased investigation is ALL about. If what happened in that moment of the killing is due to GZ's WRONGFUL actions, then of course it matters. If Trayvon committed an act prior to that moment that merited his being shot, then of COURSE that matters.

'Reality is a funny thing' this is what can be taken from that. If I had left the house one minute earlier I could have avoided that car accident. It's the way of life weird things happen and 5 seconds here or there can change a world. A whole host of things fell into place that evening in Sanford in such a way that it cultivated into the tragedy we are speaking of today... I'm in no way blaming Martin or Zimmerman for anything in their past.

But if I had not stopped to THINK about this, I would thought you to be persuasive with wordcraft. I hope a jury will think with their rational brains and not emotional drama.

Fear not for it's no such thing... It's just critical thinking something I too hope a jury would utilize.

But again, I thank you for a nicely written piece.

 

[Tulessa]

What racial slur on the 911 call? I've heard no racial slur on it and I've listened several times. At one point it sounds like he says punk and besides the audio is pretty poor to determine what was even said.

This whole ordeal reads like some Hollywood script that media is writing all the while helping to further eventual violence against GZ. Is this the 1800's where posses can form and take out someone and do anything they please? I hope not because if that does happen it will in fact be the media's fault. It will have set us back 150 years.

There's no reason to not believe GZ's story that he went back to his car after he hung up, since witness state he did. But to make for a more exciting story, GZ hunted down TM down and killed him in cold blood.

I'm not on GZ's side exactly, but I'm not on the media's side either. I'm on no witchhunt, but for facts. Someone died and GZ should have to do a some time over it. But I do not believe it was unless there is a reason otherwise. And tehre could be no one really knows but GZ himself and witness'

JB, I love your posts and insights, always have. I use to be a Paranormal investigator and because of my keen ears I had to review ALL audio. We took our cases seriously and were a TAPS family member. I distinctly hear the word C**N. With and without headphones.

 

[justthinkin]

I just went to YouTube and listened to this child's screams of terror for the first time. I purposefully had waited for the news provided by the Sentinel earlier this evening.

I don't see how anyone's very soul can not be troubled by what I just heard. I don't see how a rage can not build for not only his killer, but those who lied to us with their assurances of these primal screams as coming from their kin being beaten by a child.

I dare you to take 47 seconds and listen to the early part of this tape. I dare you to listen and realize that tonight we have been told by TWO experts that the source of these screams is NOT GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.

Trayvon Martin 911 Tape Screaming "Help" - YouTube

The cries for help are gut-wrenching. I can't imagine being one of the residents who heard it all. What a terrible guilt that must be, and yet, not knowing who was out there, fearing for your own safety, the intact safety of your own family if you had acted, and gone out....

Anyone here have the kind of equipment to squelch the 911 caller and dispatcher to pick up more clearly what the person in distress was yelling besides "help me?"

Is it the boy? I think I hear him yell for his Momma. Does anyone else hear, "Momma, help me?"

 

[Tulessa]

Nite guys

 

[m00c0w]

And the Martin lawyer on Fox just mischaracterized the results of the sound analysis. He said they said that the voice was Trayvon Martin's, not Zimmerman's. That is untrue. They just said that it's not Zimmerman's, and they stressed that they did not have Martin's to compare.

 

[Tricia]

Was not aware of that thank you for informing me. I had been away from the site last couple of days... If you don't mind me asking did they give a reason or am I supposed to ignore everything written/spoken/or seen?

I haven't had a chance to weigh in so this is a good time to do so.

The Rush Limbaugh's and Al Sharpton's of the world are not doing anything but inflaming this case.

Our moderators have literally had to sit on this thread due to the vitriol being posted by almost everyone. Non Stop!!!!

If we could post about what the talking heads are saying without name calling and other violations of TOS we would allow you to discuss them.

But our moderators are over worked due to the continual violations and alerts on this thread and this thread only. I have never seen anything like it.

We are a true crime discussion forum. We discuss facts in cases.

Discuss the facts of the case. THE FACTS OF THE CASE and do not discuss what Rush, Al, or anyone else has to say about. Stick to the facts please. It's the only way we can carry on a true crime discussion about the case.

Tricia Griffith
Co-Owner Websleuths.com

 

[JeannaT]

I'm sure the State will hire their own experts to do the voice analysis. But for now, the experts who have listened to the tape, say that it is not Zimmerman?

I only read something along the lines of "48% Zimmerman" whatever in the world that means.

What samples are the experts using to compare voices? I don't think I've heard either one of their voices - have family submitted samples of them?

 

[Donjeta]

GZ would stop screaming for help too, if the man he feared was now incapacitated.

Either one who was screaming for help would stop immediately after the shot.

And GZ wasn't "so severely injured" that he couldn't get up. You don't have to take a beating before you can shoot if you have reasonable fear that you WILL be injured.

But he was severely injured, one hit away from being in diapers and fed with a spoon for the rest of her life. :waitasec: He could already have had a hemorrhage in his brain that would kill him shortly.

I think I wouldn't stop screaming for help in such a situation.

 

[RANCH]

But that would be more for looking at recorded phone calls and wiretaps. It's very logical to think that they could match talking voices very easily. It's the difference in demeanor, register, and stress when someone screams like that that makes me wonder.

And one could say that a jury may have the same question that you have.

 

[Donjeta]

I only read something along the lines of "48% Zimmerman" whatever in the world that means.

What samples are the experts using to compare voices? I don't think I've heard either one of their voices - have family submitted samples of them?

Audio recordings of Zimmerman's 911 call are publicly available.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I only read something along the lines of "48% Zimmerman" whatever in the world that means.

What samples are the experts using to compare voices? I don't think I've heard either one of their voices - have family submitted samples of them?

You'd have to ask them? I have no idea? He doesn't say that it is Trayvon, but that he can say it is not Zimmerman's? I am not expert, but it seems as if he is saying that comparing Zimmerman's voice to the screams only gave him 48% and if it was Zimmerman's voice, it would have been 90% or more?

 

[m00c0w]

And one could say that a jury may have the same question that you have.

If the jury were impartial...

 

[Donjeta]

And the Martin lawyer on Fox just mischaracterized the results of the sound analysis. He said they said that the voice was Trayvon Martin's, not Zimmerman's. That is untrue. They just said that it's not Zimmerman's, and they stressed that they did not have Martin's to compare.

True. But if it wasn't Zimmerman, who else could it have been?