17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[LambChop]

Because it's called being deceptive.

But that is an opinion not a fact. jmo

 

[Ironhorse]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/4/2/Troia-Zimmerman-justice/

The media convicted Zimmerman long ago. Some even refuse to report his account.


Good read

Many don't want to trouble themselves with such critical thinking... They've made up their minds of who's guilty and be damned with anything that indicates otherwise...

And while we are not supposed to mention it here, the Media has played a vital role in painting this with a great deal of slant. To discard that is to abandon a core principal in sleuthing.

 

[LambChop]

He does not say when she made the call.

Is there a point in sleuthing either of the parents when it has nothing to do with what happened???? jmo

 

[ThoughtFox]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/4/2/Troia-Zimmerman-justice/

The media convicted Zimmerman long ago. Some even refuse to report his account.


Good read

The 911 tapes are there for the public to hear online and make up their own minds.

Zimmerman's version of the story is one of the first accounts I heard, and it was reported in the media.

 

[suzihawk]

Anyone can take anger management class to have a misdemeanor charge dismissed in the same situation. Regardless, that's what he did.

The very fact that he had to take an anger management class in order to get charges dismissed is unsettling to me. I don't think it 'took'. But that's just my opinion.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Where is Trayvon Martin's autopsy?
Posted: Mar 29, 2012 12:04 PM EDT
Updated: Mar 29, 2012 12:05 PM EDT
By Michelle Jones - email
By Theresa Seiger - email

Trayvon Martin, 17, and his father Tracy Martin. (Source: CNN)(RNN) -
The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin's body for burial told a TV anchor that Martin had no injuries to his hands or arms that would indicate a fight had occurred.

Richard Kurtz told CNN's Nancy Grace on Wednesday that Martin had a gunshot wound to his upper chest, but any other injury would have been difficult to detect because an autopsy was performed on the teen's body before he received it.

"As for his hands and knuckles, I don't see any evidence he had been fighting anybody," Kurtz said.

A Volusia County spokesman, Dave Byron, has confirmed that an autopsy was performed by them, but those results could take more than 30 days to be released. Results will not be unsealed until the investigation becomes "inactive."

http://www.wtol.com/story/17286084/trayvon-martins-autopsy-still-under-seal

I believe, GZ's story is falling apart...did he not think all of what he said can be disproven?

The girl on the phone, the alleged punch to his nose, the 'gash' behind his head...eight more days before The Grand Jury gets this....so just a few more days and GZ might be going bye bye....lease:

Justice for Trayvon Martin

 

[iluvmua]

Is there a point in sleuthing either of the parents when it has nothing to do with what happened???? jmo

Someone was asking me when TM's father had the GF call the juvi center and I said he did not tell when the call was made.

 

[rotterdam]

I would recommended reading attached link , yes lengthy , because it explains the FLA SYG statute very well and explains the absurdity of it all.
Without that controversial law, nobody would have ever heard about Trayvon Martin/GZ except locals. And GZ would have been arrested and charged JMO.

Under current law, I do believe that GZ will not be arrested/charged under FL law.
Some of the cases where SYG was successfully applied, included homicide victims that were already retreating. Homicide victims of a sawed off illegal shotgun plus a dude that not even have a gun permit and was allowed to use the SYG.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/dam...eth-megale-article-stand-your-ground-0401.pdf

snipped;
Although many states have embraced the notion of Stand Your Ground
over the common law duty to retreat, that focus, coupled with immunity,
places a higher value on honor than on life. It makes a mockery of this
democracy and condones civilized men resorting to barbaric behavior.

Known as the “Stand Your Ground” law, this statute is flawed because
it places a greater power on the right to possess and use a gun than it does
on the most fundamental right of all: life itself.

Proponents of the Stand Your Ground statute claim that a person
should have the right to “stand like a man” to avoid the humiliation of
retreating in the face of a fight.
Yet this argument neglects a basic premise of civilized society: respect for life.
The most self-evident truth, according to the signers of the Declaration of Independence, is that“all men . . . are endowed . . . with certain unalienable Rights [including]Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”66 The role of government,
therefore, should be to protect life and not create laws jeopardizing the lives of others.

In enacting the 2005 laws, the Florida legislature created protection for
both criminal and legitimate self-defense acts. The prior statute protected
only legitimate self-defense acts, the legitimacy of which was determined
by a jury. Now, the actual effect of Stand Your Ground laws, the castle
doctrine, and the immunity statute working together is to allow criminals
to get away with murder.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I get the impression that FL authorities were more eager to close this case than spend time investigating the case. Easy peasy when the victim is dead and cannot relay his account of events. I don't think they counted on Tray being on the phone with his gf when the altercation began. Surprise! Her testimony will be very important....if anyone ever gets off their rear and bothers to interview her. (bangs head)

MOO

wm

 

[gxm]

I read that almost 40% of the residents are renters. There are also many, many African Americans who live in the community.

So, it would seem to me that it would be very difficult for Zimmerman to know which Black person in the neighborhood legitimately belonged there and which one didn't.

One Black man was interviewed who said he no longer dared to walk his dog in the neighborhood because he was worried he would match one of Zimmerman's supposed burglars.

He actually drove entirely out of the neighborhood to walk his dog.

Even 7 and 9 year old little Black boys playing in their driveway were suspicious to Zimmerman. *** read Zimmerman's forty-seven 9-1-1 call transcripts. Unbelievable!

imho

BBM.

GZ made sixteen 911 calls between 2004 and 2012. 29 of the 45 calls were to the non-emergency number, not 911. There are 47 pages of transcripts but, as best I can tell, there were only 45 calls.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[iluvmua]

I would recommended reading attached link , yes lengthy , because it explains the FLA SYG statute very well and explains the absurdity of it all.
Without that controversial law, nobody would have ever heard about Trayvon Martin/GZ except locals. And GZ would have been arrested and charged JMO.

Under current law, I do believe that GZ will not be arrested/charged under FL law.
Some of the cases where SYG was successfully applied, included homicide victims that were already retreating. Homicide victims of a sawed off illegal shotgun plus a dude that not even have a gun permit and was allowed to use the SYG.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/dam...eth-megale-article-stand-your-ground-0401.pdf

snipped;
Although many states have embraced the notion of Stand Your Ground
over the common law duty to retreat, that focus, coupled with immunity,
places a higher value on honor than on life. It makes a mockery of this
democracy and condones civilized men resorting to barbaric behavior.

Known as the “Stand Your Ground” law, this statute is flawed because
it places a greater power on the right to possess and use a gun than it does
on the most fundamental right of all: life itself.

Proponents of the Stand Your Ground statute claim that a person
should have the right to “stand like a man” to avoid the humiliation of
retreating in the face of a fight.
Yet this argument neglects a basic premise of civilized society: respect for life.
The most self-evident truth, according to the signers of the Declaration of Independence, is that“all men . . . are endowed . . . with certain unalienable Rights [including]Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”66 The role of government,
therefore, should be to protect life and not create laws jeopardizing the lives of others.

In enacting the 2005 laws, the Florida legislature created protection for
both criminal and legitimate self-defense acts. The prior statute protected
only legitimate self-defense acts, the legitimacy of which was determined
by a jury. Now, the actual effect of Stand Your Ground laws, the castle
doctrine, and the immunity statute working together is to allow criminals
to get away with murder.

Which is why they never arrested GZ and charged him, because they knew he was protected under this law.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Many don't want to trouble themselves with such critical thinking... They've made up their minds of who's guilty and be damned with anything that indicates otherwise...

And while we are not supposed to mention it here, the Media has played a vital role in painting this with a great deal of slant. To discard that is to abandon a core principal in sleuthing.

What you call "slant" might seem just sympathy for bereaved parents to some of us. I've seen the same comment directed at the President. But every President sends condolences to grieving parents - no biggie french fry, it seems to me.

It amuses me that people defend Zimmerman's right to pass instant judgment on anyone who walks through his neighborhood based on stereotypes and things he couldn't possibly know, such as whether someone actually lived there or not (did he keep a chart of names?), or whether someone was "casing" houses rather than taking a walk (he can read minds?). Or especially the way someone is dressed - hoodie, sandals, shorts - whatever he mumbles about on the 911 tapes.

I'm sorry, but we don't have to take everything Zimmerman says or believes as fact.

I wish we could get Trayvon's opinion, but he's dead.

And after three weeks of constant reading and studying what we know, I don't think it's fair to accuse people of not thinking critically here.

Aren't you giving the media too much credit for persuading people, as if they are spoon-feeding us oatmeal and we are swallowing like a baby? Absolutely not. Most of us have been around a while and are not that gullible, thanks.

On the other hand, I don't get this tendency to shoot the messenger. The media is just reporting the facts as they are slowly released by LE and the families.

ETA: Just wait until the Zimmermans completely clam up - that won't be the media's fault, but the attorney's if they ever get a good one. I think they are going to need one. :twocents:

Not every fact is going to fit every single person's theory of what happened, sorry. Somewhere in this mess is the truth, and it's going to come out eventually.

 

[gxm]

The 911 tapes are there for the public to hear online and make up their own minds.

Zimmerman's version of the story is one of the first accounts I heard, and it was reported in the media.

I disagree. Unlike WS members, most folks don't take the time to read the transcripts and/or listen to the tapes. My own mother was insistent that GZ was "told to stay in his car," when in reality that's not what the dispatcher said. I tried to explain that he was told "we don't need you to do that," but I don't think she believed me. As I have mentioned before, a whole lot of well meaning people are completely misinformed about this case.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[suzihawk]

<modsnip>

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7746243&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14[/ame]

We will no longer allow discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or the Black Panther protest(s). There are way too many <modsnips> and timeouts to continue this discussion. We will allow MSM links to such protests, but no discussion.
We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.
Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link or a link from main stream media (MSM).

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Trayvon Martin Case: George Zimmerman Was 'Jekyll And Hyde,' Former Co-Worker Says
Posted: 03/30/2012 6:36 pm

In a week of leaked high school disciplinary records, police reports and police station surveillance video in the war over public perception of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, more details have emerged about Zimmerman&#8217;s history of violence.

Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the unarmed 17-year-old Martin to death last month, was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for &#8220;being too aggressive,&#8221; according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman&#8217;s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.

&#8220;Usually he was just a cool guy,&#8221; said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. &#8220;But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.&#8221; The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.

&#8220;He had a temper and he became a liability,&#8221; the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. &#8220;One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,&#8221; he said. &#8220;It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.&#8221;

The new portrayal of Zimmerman comes as distinctly different images of both Martin and Zimmerman are being floated by people on both sides of the Martin killing. Zimmerman told police he shot Martin Feb. 26 in self defense after being jumped from behind. He has not been charged.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html


One should learn, never to say never...for you never know...:maddening:

 

[GrandmaTo4]

BBM.

My 300 lb. SIL was floored by a sucker punch from a smaller man. He broke his ankle in the fall and was laid up for months. IIRC, that's GZ's story, that he was hit from behind. Weight doesn't make that much difference if that's the case. Though it could explain why GZ would have been able to wrestle control of his gun (if they were both fighting for it).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

I'm sorry about your S-I-L. However, 300 pounds is generally not characteristic of someone who is physically fit -- unless he happens to be 6'5" or taller.

It's also pretty darn impossible to be hit in the nose from behind, as Zimmerman claims.

Look at the police station videos. George Zimmerman is a stocky, muscular, fit looking man.

A barely 17 year old inexperienced 140-145 lb. kid is no match for macho Zimmerman and his semi-automatic 9mm pistol.

I do not believe Zimmerman OR his family's account of the shooting.

IMO, once it is proven that the screams of fear and anguish came from Trayvon, fighting for HIS life -- and not Zimmerman, as he and his family have claimed, George's entire fabricated fairy-tale story will completely fall apart.

Two court qualified expert witnesses have already stated that the screams were NOT from Zimmerman. I have absolutely no doubt that the FBI analysis will confirm their reports.

imho

 

[ThoughtFox]

I disagree. Unlike WS members, most folks don't take the time to read the transcripts and/or listen to the tapes. My own mother was insistent that GZ was "told to stay in his car," when in reality that's not what the dispatcher said. I tried to explain that he was told "we don't need you to do that," but I don't think she believed me. As I have mentioned before, a whole lot of well meaning people are completely misinformed about this case.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

That is not really completely misinformed in my opinion.

You are making what we call a semantic argument, based on how you interpret the language, but your mother could be just as right.

"We don't need you to do that" has an indefinite pronoun "that." Don't do that . . . what?

Most of us assume the dispatcher meant not to follow Trayvon either in the car or out of the car, because the police didn't need the help. George had already reported Trayvon, and at that moment no one was in imminent danger.

What he wanted was for Zimmerman to wait for the cops, but George just wouldn't do it. So it's really Zimmerman who isn't paying attention, and not those of us who aren't sure what "that" means in the 911 call.

It think "that" is what the dispatcher was trying to avoid, which was a confrontation and shoot-down between George and a teenager.

ETA: And I've said before that I personally think the dispatcher was being too mamby pamby with George, and was assuming that George would listen to him and act accordingly. I think every dispatcher should study this case and realize that a loose cannon out there could get in over his head fast. He should have spelled it out to George not to get out of the car, and not to get anymore involved than he was. :cow:

 

[rotterdam]

I wonder if any of the witnesses are renters, like GZ? :waitasec:

According to a previous article , more than half the residents are renters, so odds are some of the witnesses are renters.

By the time Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, 40 properties inside the gate were empty and more than half of the residents were renters.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece


Popular bumper sticker in FL after SYG?

"Don&#8217;t Dial 911 &#8212; Use .357"

 

[rbrnmw2]

Trayvon's dad Tracy on BET now...WOW what a different stoy he was told in the beginning....IMHO

http://www.bet.com/video/newsbriefs...tracy-describes-police-statement.html?cid=rss

 

[LambChop]

FL.Gave GZ a gun permit they also gave him a ccp, Those charges he had were expunged.So if he never was convicted he has a clean record or did FL make a big mistake giving him a CCP and a gun permit?

The records are still there so it does not appear they were expunged. jmo