17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[lauriej]

I'm going through this report with a fine toothed comb because he was back at the station 36 minutes after he pulled the trigger. That leaves 20 minutes at the scene for all this report says happened.

Officer Smith says in the report that he parked his squad car at 2821 Retreat View Circle and went between the houses. It's 175 feet from where the body was back to his squad car to put GZ in the back AFTER he had been disarmed and cuffed. I'm trying to sort my way through a timeline at the scene for this 20 minutes, and I've gotta tell ya there's not a ton of time left over for a cleanup by paramedics or anyone else. He didn't even get marched to the squad car till AFTER Officer Smith watched CPR efforts on TM's body.

--speaking of CPR efforts----when the witness Selma comes out and asks george what's going on , she states that on her 3rd attempt that he finally ( nonchalantly ) said to call the police.

--now that the "suspicious male" is no longer a threat to him, how about saying---"Call an ambulance !!!!!" and turning trayvon over to see if he's still alive, start CPR..

--1st he shoots him, then does absolutely nothing to possibly save him.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLSqk/

"We said, 'Is everything OK? And he just looked at us. Selma [another witness] asked him again, 'What's up, what's going on, everything OK? And he just said, 'Call the police,' kind of nonchalantly, kind of like, 'Leave me alone,' '' Cutcher said.

 

[Nana46]

About GZ's clothes...would they not have done a strip search on him to make sure he had no other weapons????????????

 

[gxm]

--speaking of CPR efforts----when the witness Selma comes out and asks george what's going on , she states that on her 3rd attempt that he finally ( nonchalantly ) said to call the police.

--now that the "suspicious male" is no longer a threat to him, how about saying---"Call an ambulance !!!!!" and turning trayvon over to see if he's still alive, start CPR..

--1st he shoots him, then does absolutely nothing to possibly save him.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLSqk/

"We said, 'Is everything OK? And he just looked at us. Selma [another witness] asked him again, 'What's up, what's going on, everything OK? And he just said, 'Call the police,' kind of nonchalantly, kind of like, 'Leave me alone,' '' Cutcher said.

I'm guessing GZ was in shock.

 

[wncgal]

I have never worked in law enforcement and have never been to the scene of a murder investigation. In all honesty, pretty much the sum of what I thought I knew came from television and the movies. Somewhere along the way I've apparently been fed a ton of bs regarding how a murder is investigated.

I'm not meaning to go after the Sanford Police Dept., but I've been spending some time with the police report trying to comprehend how this all went down. This Officer Smith who did the report says he's the one who first approached GZ, disarmed him, put him in cuffs, and marched him back to his squad car. He says he never asked him ANYTHING!

How does that work? There's a dead body laying there, this dude tells you he shot him and you don't even have a brief conversation with him as to how he says it all happened?

I thought Investigators of a murder did their work at the scene. I know they do on Law and Order, but this guy was skipping along in the police station 36 minutes after he killed the victim! The report says an Investigator investigated him there! How in the heck do you check a guy's story out from the other side of town?

The part that's so obviously contrived about this report deals with an officer telling us he didn't question the suspect but the report is laced with "I overheard him say blah, blah, blah" or "While I was doing ____I noticed grass yada, yada, yada, and blood coming out his_____." You've flat out got to wonder about someone whose powers of observation allegedy compells him to specifically note grass on the back of a coat AND it being wet.....while it's RAINING! What about the rest of the coat? IT DIDN'T GET WET?

Then you got the real gem of this deal. How in the hell can a Chief of Police get up in front of more cameras and mics than the Super Bowl has and tell the world what a squeaky clean record a dude has with assaulting an LE Officer on his record, in this day and age of computers, cross agency ties, NCIC, etc?

Oh well, in the meantime we'll all just sit around arguing the points of this case, the Feds will hopefully straighten it all out, but a mother's son will still be no more.

IMO, THEY JUST DIDN'T CARE ENOUGH TO INVESTIGATE PROPERLY. This is going to make some people angry, but so be it. I think to them Trayvon was just another "". :twocents: MOO JMO

 

[gxm]

I've been thinking about the speculation that GZ is a racist predator who was out stalking his "prey" as many have contended both here and in the media. If GZ's intent was, from the start, to kill TM then why did GZ call the cops before he killed him? Is there any other case of a murder or hate crime in which the killer calls the cops moments beforehand to give a location for and description of his victim? I really don't see premeditation or intent here. It's implausible to me that GZ could have planned TM's death. I just don't see it.

 

[joypath]

About GZ's clothes...would they not have done a strip search on him to make sure he had no other weapons????????????

OH MY!...Your question really got DH going! "HECK NO, on a strip search UNLESS he was formally arrested, charged & processed at the station house! Civil liberties and all that!"


BUT......GZ SHOULD have been "patted down" BEFORE he was placed in ANY vehicle....even if it was for first aid/medical attention and to keep him out of the rain!

This case has the "retired minority cop" with whom I sleep wicked riled up and shall I say, "ticked off" with the hamstringing SYG law "misuse"

BTW: ALL HIS opinions!....He's headed off to ham radio land, shaking his head over my addiction! "Don't you get enough of this at work???"

 

[katydid23]

Maybe I am misinformed, but don't all LE at least obtain basic info of the incident for the police report. Simply asking, "What happened?" would in no way be an interrogation nor a formal interview. Even if he wasn't Mirandized, whatever he said would be considered an "excited utterance" and most likely admissable in court. Or, do all patrolpeople wait until Detectives are on the scene to ask this type of question?

I guess these types of things would be addressed in court, if there is ever a court proceeding.

IMO.

If it is a murder investigation and someone with the gun says 'YES, I shot him', then FOR THE GOOD OF THE PROSECUTION'S CASE, that would be the end of the cops prodding of the suspect. They would wrap up the convo and take him straight to the detectives. My dad tried a lot of felony cases and he loved it when the confession was taken at the scene by a patrolman. It was easier to get it thrown out or disregarded.

And yes, the cops DO obtain basic info from the scene for their report. But not from the alleged shooter so much. Because at that point they need to preserve their case against him.

IF the shooter is talking out loud at the scene, maybe to others there, and explaining himself, then that is one thing. But once the shooter is handcuffed
and mirandized, then he needs to go straight to the station for the interview.

 

[Emeralgem]

And when did EMS arrive on the scene? How long after it was reported someone had been shot? I'm thinking the first LE to arrive was the one who had been dispatched to the complex when GZ made the 911 call...An ambulance would not have been sent out on that first call made by GZ to 911...The reason I mention this is the guy on NG last night stated the second ambulance was cancelled because GZ was treated by EMS in the first ambulance sent out...JMHO

ETA.. How did they manage to treat GZ's severe life threatening injuries in such a short period of time..IMHO. Taking into consideration it would have taken several minutes for EMS to even arrive on the scene how did they manage this since he was whisked away almost immediately..JMHO

 

[katydid23]

--speaking of CPR efforts----when the witness Selma comes out and asks george what's going on , she states that on her 3rd attempt that he finally ( nonchalantly ) said to call the police.

--now that the "suspicious male" is no longer a threat to him, how about saying---"Call an ambulance !!!!!" and turning trayvon over to see if he's still alive, start CPR..

--1st he shoots him, then does absolutely nothing to possibly save him.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/witness-sanford-police-blew-us-teen-slaying/nLSqk/

"We said, 'Is everything OK? And he just looked at us. Selma [another witness] asked him again, 'What's up, what's going on, everything OK? And he just said, 'Call the police,' kind of nonchalantly, kind of like, 'Leave me alone,' '' Cutcher said.

Why would they keep asking him if 'everything was okay?' Didn't they just hear the gunshot? Didn't they see a body lying motionless on the ground?

And on her ' third attempt' ? Why didnt they call for help before asking him THREE TIMES what was up?

 

[Adrienne37]

I'm guessing GZ was in shock.

I'm guessing he was trying to figure out how to save his rear.



~jmo~

 

[suspicious1]

The more I think about it, this is what I think happened....

Trayvon was walking home from the store, talking on his phone, when he noticed a car following behind him. At first he didn't think nothing of it....meanwhile GZ is on the phone with 911 operator claiming Tray looked suspicious. Tray cuts through the buildings thinking that would keep him out of harms way and GZ would not be to get to him. You have to remember that Tray don't know who this man is and what his intentions are. Tray proceeded through the buildings when he noticed this unidentified man is now out of his car and pursuing him on foot. Tray now feels that his safety is being threatened and asks hiwgf if he should run. People contemplate running from something when they are scared or fearful. IMO, Tray began to run and at that point GZ could no longer see Tray. So IMO, was running fast enough to get out of sight. GZ tells 911 that Tray is running AWAY from him.

I believe that GZ knew of this child and knew which building he was visiting. IMO, GZ beat him to his destination. How would GZ catch up with him so fast? If when Tray started running GZ couldn't see him I assume that Tray couldn't see him anymore. So thinking that the coast was clear Tray slowed down because he was approaching his destination and thought he had lost the man that he clearly knew was following him. Just when Tray thought this the unidentified man popped up on him. I can't imagine what he was feeling.

Tray may have started swinging.on GZ but who could blame him?This man had hunted him down. At this point, Tray knew that this man was coming for him.

 

[Etilema]

I've been thinking about the speculation that GZ is a racist predator who was out stalking his "prey" as many have contended both here and in the media. If GZ's intent was, from the start, to kill TM then why did GZ call the cops before he killed him? Is there any other case of a murder or hate crime in which the killer calls the cops moments beforehand to give a location for and description of his victim? I really don't see premeditation or intent here. It's implausible to me that GZ could have planned TM's death. I just don't see it.

1) He would call police to establish his position that it was self-defense.

2) I don't think people are suggesting that he went out looking to kill a black guy, but rather that he made an assumption that Trayvon was a criminal because he was black, and was determined not to let this one "get away".

3) Perhaps he didn't start out with the idea of killing him, but just to hold him for police, but ended up shooting when TM didn't cooperate.

 

[csziggy]

It's kind of like Uncle Joe Oliver last week when Lawrence O'Donnell promptly put him in his place and made him admit that Oliver was nothing more than a former coworker of Zimmerman. That was some of the best TV I've ever had the pleasure to watch.


~jmo~

Has Joe Oliver been seen in public this week? I think he was on one morning show the morning after Lawrence O'Donnell exposed him as barely an acquaintance of GZ's but I haven't seen Oliver since.

 

[uvamerica]

Maybe I am misinformed, but don't all LE at least obtain basic info of the incident for the police report. Simply asking, "What happened?" would in no way be an interrogation nor a formal interview. Even if he wasn't Mirandized, whatever he said would be considered an "excited utterance" and most likely admissable in court. Or, do all patrolpeople wait until Detectives are on the scene to ask this type of question?

I guess these types of things would be addressed in court, if there is ever a court proceeding.

IMO.

The police who are called to the scene are supposed to get as much information as possible, so when the detectives get there LE can give them the info they collected then the detectives take over. (this info came from a retired cop)

 

[suzihawk]

BBM

Looks like you're already on where I'm headed with a lot of this.

I'm going through this report with a fine toothed comb because he was back at the station 36 minutes after he pulled the trigger. That leaves 20 minutes at the scene for all this report says happened.

Officer Smith says in the report that he parked his squad car at 2821 Retreat View Circle and went between the houses. It's 175 feet from where the body was back to his squad car to put GZ in the back AFTER he had been disarmed and cuffed. I'm trying to sort my way through a timeline at the scene for this 20 minutes, and I've gotta tell ya there's not a ton of time left over for a cleanup by paramedics or anyone else. He didn't even get marched to the squad car till AFTER Officer Smith watched CPR efforts on TM's body.

According to the expert in this video, there was only a window of 8 minutes at most to assess and treat GZ at the scene.

(toward the end of the video):

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/02/trayvon-martin-shooting-timeline

 

[Dr.Fessel]

BBM

Looks like you're already on where I'm headed with a lot of this.

I'm going through this report with a fine toothed comb because he was back at the station 36 minutes after he pulled the trigger. That leaves 20 minutes at the scene for all this report says happened.

Officer Smith says in the report that he parked his squad car at 2821 Retreat View Circle and went between the houses. It's 175 feet from where the body was back to his squad car to put GZ in the back AFTER he had been disarmed and cuffed. I'm trying to sort my way through a timeline at the scene for this 20 minutes, and I've gotta tell ya there's not a ton of time left over for a cleanup by paramedics or anyone else. He didn't even get marched to the squad car till AFTER Officer Smith watched CPR efforts on TM's body.

Smith had to stay with him to and was standing right there while the EMT's were treating him and all he heard was Zimmerman say he was yelling for help and nobody would help him.

He never heard Zimmerman say what he needed help with, he never heard Zimmerman tell the EMT's what happened to his head or his nose.

He never heard Zimmerman say one word about the fight, the shooting, the struggle or the injuries. Never heard him say they hurt bad or did not hurt.

 

[Adrienne37]

Has Joe Oliver been seen in public this week? I think he was on one morning show the morning after Lawrence O'Donnell exposed him as barely an acquaintance of GZ's but I haven't seen Oliver since.

I haven't seen him anywhere either. LOL! I thought it was hilarious.

 

[octobermoon]

It is not self defense if you follow a suspicious teenager walking down the street.
It is not. Stand your ground, means stand your ground, Not follow a kid.

IMO JMO MOO and all that jazz

 

[Nana46]

OH MY!...Your question really got DH going! "HECK NO, on a strip search UNLESS he was formally arrested, charged & processed at the station house! Civil liberties and all that!"


BUT......GZ SHOULD have been "patted down" BEFORE he was placed in ANY vehicle....even if it was for first aid/medical attention and to keep him out of the rain!

This case has the "retired minority cop" with whom I sleep wicked riled up and shall I say, "ticked off" with the hamstringing SYG law "misuse"

BTW: ALL HIS opinions!....He's headed off to ham radio land, shaking his head over my addiction! "Don't you get enough of this at work???"

Thank you Joypath! As always I appreciate your input and glad to know I 'riled' up your dear hubby:floorlaugh:See I would not have known all that had you not posted it!! Tell that boy he did good!!!!!!:seeya:

 

[tlcya]

In a letter to U.S. Department of Justice officials, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton allege that State Attorney Norm Wolfinger met with the Sanford police chief within hours of the teen's death and that together they overruled a detective's recommendation that Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter. The letter claims a lead investigator filed an affidavit stating that he didn't find Zimmerman's story credible.
Wolfinger called the allegations "lies" and said no meeting took place.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/0...ation-appears-to-show-injuries/#ixzz1r005kRhB