17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[annalia]

1) He'd call the police beforehand? That was his plan? Sounds like a crapshoot to me.

2) I think that when people use language like "stalking his prey," they are certainly suggesting that GZ went out that night searching for a black person to kill. It is language used for predators, and predators go on the prowl with intent. But why get the police involved in the first place and why waste precious time calling the cops when he could be "stalking" his "prey"? It just doesn't add up.

3) I think that somehow TM and GZ's paths crossed and turned into a deadly confrontation. I don't know why or how that final confrontation occurred, but I don't think it was planned and I don't think it was racially motivated. IMO, it was a situation that turned horribly fatal because one man was carrying a gun. Take the gun out of the equation and IMO there would not have been a teenager's life cut tragically short.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

You can't take the gun out of the equation. That's the crux of it.

I don't know who's saying that he left the house that night, got his gun and said, I'm gonna go kill a black kid, that preposterous and distorting the issue.

The fact is, he profiled this kid and deemed him a criminal, no one ever said he couldn't call 911.

HE chose to go after him with his weapon, after he deemed that another one of these *advertiser censored***** wasn't going to get away. Yeah I can see how that might be considered hunted down, or stalking his prey. Trayvon was just one of those *advertiser censored****** to him.

There would have been no paths crossing if he had just stayed in his car.

GZ had all the choices that would have avoided the deadly encounter.

He chose differently, he should have been arrested.

The excuses for this man are beyond comprehension as are the reasons used to blame the dead boy.

JMHO

 

[cityslick]

Not that he would call police beforehand but I do believe he might have been setting his "self-defense" and reasonable doubt up with some of the things he said. He said all the right key words - hands in his waistband; he's up to something' he's checking me out; etc. etc.

Like I've said - I really think GZ thought TM had a gun. If TM had bought a can of Iced Tea and had that can in the front hoodie pocket - it would make a "bulge" that GZ could have interpreted as a gun.

GZ now thinking this suspicious guy has a gun - he (GZ) thinks if he does shoot that it will be justified as the other guy had one too.



JMHO

BBM

Sure, I can believe that. I still wonder how they wound up scuffling/wrestling on the ground if GZ had took his gun out before that happened. Did GZ push TM, TM push back, they went down and then the gun came out? Did TM push GZ (get away from me), GZ fall backward, get back up and tackle TM, then shoot?

 

[iluvmua]

Not that he would call police beforehand but I do believe he might have been setting his "self-defense" and reasonable doubt up with some of the things he said. He said all the right key words - hands in his waistband; he's up to something' he's checking me out; etc. etc.

Like I've said - I really think GZ thought TM had a gun. If TM had bought a can of Iced Tea and had that can in the front hoodie pocket - it would make a "bulge" that GZ could have interpreted as a gun.

GZ now thinking this suspicious guy has a gun - he (GZ) thinks if he does shoot that it will be justified as the other guy had one too.



JMHO

I think that too.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Trayvon Martin had just turned 17-years-old. He was a Junior in High School. He could not vote. He could not buy cigarettes. If he had a job, he would have been protected under the “Child Labor Laws” of this Country.

Trayvon was not a child, but he was not a man. He was in that great transitional period every young person goes through. He was excited about Prom (kid) and preparing for College (adult). He will never do either of those things.

Trayvon was not perfect. I don’t expect anyone to be perfect. He has made his mistakes, but mistakes I expect to be made by a young kid his age. I’ve seen 1,000 times worse. He, in my opinion, seemed like a bright kid testing his boundaries.

I’m not going to question what discipline Trayvon’s parents gave him for his troubles? Frankly, it’s none of my business? Just like it’s not my business to know how each and every person here disciplines their children? That’s your business.

I am able to admit that I do think Trayvon’s race played some role in his death. It’s sad, but it’s real. It’s a tough reality that things like this happen… but they happen. It doesn’t make it better to just ignore it or refuse to believe it? Nothing can be learned from Trayvon’s death if we ignore it. We’d just be right back to the same place eventually.

There is something to learn from Trayvon’s death. There’s a lot to learn. You just have to be willing to listen. I listen to what my heart tells me. My heart never lies.

Justice for Trayvon

 

[iluvmua]

Do we know IF GZ is/was employed. I know at one time he worked as a bouncer..JMHO

He also worked at CarMax, I believe sometime in 2008.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'm also a little curious about the procedure that may have been used when the handcuffs went on GZ. Officer Smith says he did that and doesn't mention any other officer involved. How'd he go about it, I wonder? Did he do the "Get on the ground and place your hands behind your head" routine? Or did he march him over to a wall and frisk him down good before the cuffs went on? Wonder what procedure he used to disarm him? Did he have his gun drawn?

These may not be big or important questions in the overall scheme of things, but you've got a window that only contains 19 minutes or so before they whisk GZ to the station. I'm simply trying to come to terms with how GZ showed up, looking neat as a pin, with this bloody mess of an "enhanced" head wound. A head wound that someone's story is not only that they got to stop bleeding but got him cleaned up in just a very few short minutes.

 

[TonyGatto]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGatto
Thank you. Thanks you. People are trying to say he didn't follow him -- and I say -- how did he not follow him if they both ended up away from the truck, around the bend, and behind the town homes. I think GZ just took the actual initial meeting at his truck -- which we hear on the 911 tape (GZ says he's staring right at me) -- and fabricated the verbal exchange about what are you doing here?

BBM

But didn't the gf on the phone say she heard the ' what are you doing here?'

That exchange that the gf heard had to have come when they were behind the row of houses just before Trayvon was shot. According to this account by GZ, the verbal exchange comes when he is still in his truck. We know that didn't happen -- and the GZ is lying -- because we have the 911 tape when he is in the truck and he says TM is staring at him and there is clearly no verbal exchange. Then GZ gets out of his truck.

 

[Velouria]

Not that he would call police beforehand but I do believe he might have been setting his "self-defense" and reasonable doubt up with some of the things he said. He said all the right key words - hands in his waistband; he's up to something' he's checking me out; etc. etc.

Like I've said - I really think GZ thought TM had a gun. If TM had bought a can of Iced Tea and had that can in the front hoodie pocket - it would make a "bulge" that GZ could have interpreted as a gun.

GZ now thinking this suspicious guy has a gun - he (GZ) thinks if he does shoot that it will be justified as the other guy had one too.



JMHO

But if GZ thought TM had a gun, why would TM try instead to go for Zimmerman's gun? Why wouldn't Trayvon draw his own weapon instead?

Robert Zimmerman claimed that his younger brother was "barely conscious" and in fear for his life when he shot Trayvon, having been left with a broken nose and cut scalp as the teenager tried to grab his gun.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ms-killer-was-attacked-by-Trayvon-Martin.html

Respectfully WOO, that just doesn't add up to me. :waitasec:

 

[Adrienne37]

Trayvon Martin had just turned 17-years-old. He was a Junior in High School. He could not vote. He could not buy cigarettes. If he had a job, he would have been protected under the “Child Labor Laws” of this Country.

Trayvon was not a child, but he was not a man. He was in that great transitional period every young person goes through. He was excited about Prom (kid) and preparing for College (adult). He will never do either of those things.

Trayvon was not perfect. I don’t expect anyone to be perfect. He has made his mistakes, but mistakes I expect to be made by a young kid his age. I’ve seen 1,000 times worse. He, in my opinion, seemed like a bright kid testing his boundaries.

I’m not going to question what discipline Trayvon’s parents gave him for his troubles? Frankly, it’s none of my business? Just like it’s not my business to know how each and every person here disciplines their children? That’s your business.

I am able to admit that I do think Trayvon’s race played some role in his death. It’s sad, but it’s real. It’s a tough reality that things like this happen… but they happen. It doesn’t make it better to just ignore it or refuse to believe it? Nothing can be learned from Trayvon’s death if we ignore it. We’d just be right back to the same place eventually.

There is something to learn from Trayvon’s death. There’s a lot to learn. You just have to be willing to listen. I listen to what my heart tells me. My heart never lies.

Justice for Trayvon

Wonderful post Lola.

I walk and stand in solidarity with the family of Trayvon Martin in their quest to seek for justice for the murder of their son.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm still shocked that that Officer didn't use gloves when he was searching Zimmerman like that? That's a big "no no."

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Papa - I do believe I read in that police report that the officer had his gun drawn and held GZ at gunpoint - if only for a few seconds. GZ told him where the gun is and the officer proceeded to disarm and cuff him. But I do think it said the officer's gun was drawn.



JMHO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

For the life of me I can not figure out why Officer Smith swore under oath that Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket when in truth Zimmerman was wearing a red and black/gray jacket. This is an officer who knew he would have to get on a stand and testify to his words possibly and has plenty of experience calling in two tone cars and knows how important the truth is.

Look at this video and the colors on his coat, depending on where a witness was standing or above they might have gotten just a glance of the black or gray.



But after looking at Zimmerman so close to see the wet, the grass and even searching the coat, Officer Smith still swore under oath the coat was red. A lawyer would have a field day with that and will.



Tape showing the coat under lots of different lighting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWDNbQUgm4&feature=youtu.be

 

[suzihawk]

I've been thinking about the speculation that GZ is a racist predator who was out stalking his "prey" as many have contended both here and in the media. If GZ's intent was, from the start, to kill TM then why did GZ call the cops before he killed him? Is there any other case of a murder or hate crime in which the killer calls the cops moments beforehand to give a location for and description of his victim? I really don't see premeditation or intent here. It's implausible to me that GZ could have planned TM's death. I just don't see it.

Here's what I think, FWIW...

I think he WAS out stalking his prey. His prey being those imagined A$$**le thugs that always got away. And I believe he does have a propensity for racial bias - so that makes him a racial predator, IMO. He called the police so that when the 'suspect' was arrested he would be hailed as a hero and savior in his world and little 'kingdom'. Once again, the 'suspect' was getting away and he wasn't about to let that happen so he went after him. I think he caught up to him and most likely grabbed him trying to 'detain' him and Trayvon fought back and he shot him being the coward he is.

So while I don't think he started off his day by deciding he was going to kill someone, I believe he is a racial predator and I think there was definitely premeditation and intent.

That's my opinion.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

But if GZ thought TM had a gun, why would TM try instead to go for Zimmerman's gun? Why wouldn't Trayvon draw his own weapon instead?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ms-killer-was-attacked-by-Trayvon-Martin.html

Respectfully WOO, that just doesn't add up to me. :waitasec:

Just because GZ thought TM had a gun - I wasn't implying that he did. If TM pushed him and exposed GZ's gun - you're right IF TIM HAD ONE - maybe he would have pulled it - but he didn't. At that point, it was on and whether or not GZ still thought the same - there was a matter of seconds and GZ had pulled his trigger. I also think this because the witnesses saying after the shot they saw him standing / kneeling over TM - I think he was checking for that "imagined" gun and GZ had his "come to Jesus" moment of what he had just done.

I don't know about the second quote you had - that wasn't mine. Sorry.

 

[miimaa]

Yep, he was employed as a bouncer for "illegal" house parties until he was fired for getting all nuts and picking up a girl and and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.” throwing a woman into a wall.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/...man-lost-security-guard-job-after-he-snapped/


~jmo~

snipped by me for space

Info for that article came from an "unnamed former co-worker" so read with a grain of salt.

My gosh people! None of you know what George Zimmerman was thinking any more than you know for certain what Trayvon Martin was thinking that night. Maybe he walked to 7-11 and bought ice tea and skittles. Maybe he was out just walking around and had ice tea and skittles from home. No one here knows.

Maybe George Zimmerman is a rampant racist that tries to cover it up by mentoring black kids. Maybe he skulks around the community every single night prowling for black teens to harass. No one here knows.

FACT IS NONE OF YOU KNOW! Please stop trashing this man because he could be telling the truth.

News outlets have edited the 911 audiotapes to make GZ look guilty. The former attorney general claims the Martin family lawyer of outright lies. http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/02/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

What if -- what IF - George Zimmerman is telling the truth?

 

[jjenny]

For the life of me I can not figure out why Officer Smith swore under oath that Zimmerman was wearing a red jacket when in truth Zimmerman was wearing a red and black/gray jacket. This is an officer who knew he would have to get on a stand and testify to his words possibly and has plenty of experience calling in two tone cars and knows how important the truth is.

Look at this video and the colors on his coat, depending on where a witness was standing or above they might have gotten just a glance of the black or gray.



But after looking at Zimmerman so close to see the wet, the grass and even searching the coat, Officer Smith still swore under oath the coat was red. A lawyer would have a field day with that and will.



Tape showing the coat under lots of different lighting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WWDNbQUgm4&feature=youtu.be

What lawyer will have a field day with it? The jacket is red but it has a black stripe on its back.

 

[ohiogirl]

Out of all the questions being contemplated here, I don't think they case is going to hinge on a red coat, or a red/black/gray coat.

 

[cityslick]

I'm still shocked that that Officer didn't use gloves when he was searching Zimmerman like that? That's a big "no no."

Why would he even be searching him at that point? Shouldn't that had happened before he got into the police car?

 

[ohiogirl]

snipped by me for space

Info for that article came from an "unnamed former co-worker" so read with a grain of salt.

My gosh people! None of you know what George Zimmerman was thinking any more than you know for certain what Trayvon Martin was thinking that night. Maybe he walked to 7-11 and bought ice tea and skittles. Maybe he was out just walking around and had ice tea and skittles from home. No one here knows.

Maybe George Zimmerman is a rampant racist that tries to cover it up by mentoring black kids. Maybe he skulks around the community every single night prowling for black teens to harass. No one here knows.

FACT IS NONE OF YOU KNOW! Please stop trashing this man because he could be telling the truth.

News outlets have edited the 911 audiotapes to make GZ look guilty. The former attorney general claims the Martin family lawyer of outright lies. What if -- what IF - George Zimmerman is telling the truth?

I would like to know why the AG didn't say anything about this before, It is not new news. imo

And, the Martins are not accusing the AG of having a meeting with the Zimmermans. They are asking him about the meeting he had with LE that night.

 

[TonyGatto]

snipped by me for space

Info for that article came from an "unnamed former co-worker" so read with a grain of salt.

My gosh people! None of you know what George Zimmerman was thinking any more than you know for certain what Trayvon Martin was thinking that night. Maybe he walked to 7-11 and bought ice tea and skittles. Maybe he was out just walking around and had ice tea and skittles from home. No one here knows.

Maybe George Zimmerman is a rampant racist that tries to cover it up by mentoring black kids. Maybe he skulks around the community every single night prowling for black teens to harass. No one here knows.

FACT IS NONE OF YOU KNOW! Please stop trashing this man because he could be telling the truth.

News outlets have edited the 911 audiotapes to make GZ look guilty. The former attorney general claims the Martin family lawyer of outright lies. What if -- what IF - George Zimmerman is telling the truth?

BBM

One news organization, NBC News, made one bad edit and it is being investigated. It is about 3 seconds worth of coverage. There have been about 8 billion hours of coverage where that has not happened.