17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[Yoda]

Those are not three different versions of the same question. They are different questions. Mr. Martin said TM walked to 7-11 to get Skittles and two when he was not home after Mr. Martin arrived home he thought TM had gone to the movies because they had discussed early that he might go with his cousin. Those were two different questions and not versions. We don't know what TM's punishment was and he may have already "served" his punishment for all we know. TM wasn't 5 years old which means his punishment was probably age appropriate. Spending time with a 20 old cousin may have been a good influence for TM as far as Mr. Martin was concerned, we don't know that.

But there aren't any versions, we know he was punished for the suspension, that Mr. Martin agreed to let him walk to the store and he agreed to TM going to the movies later with his cousin if TM wanted to go out. Versions would be he went to 7-11, no he went to Target, no he went to Kohls....those are versions.

I'd hate to think I am now living "versions" of my life. lol jmo

In a previous thread I linked to two articles where TM's dad's Gave different versions of why/what/when TM was out. One spoke of TM being punished for his suspension and they finally let him run to the store.

 

[JeannaT]

FWIW, I quit teaching in 08 and a few of my 5th grade boys had grills 4 years ago. They weren't allowed to wear them in school but one kid brought his in his bookbag to show me, LOL! It seemed like a fashion fad to me, like when my son got that goofy haircut and my daughter wanted colored contacts to change her eye color. But what do I know?

Is there some 'bad' significance to wearing a grill that I am unaware of or is it just a trend amongst our AA males? I never see females wearing them so I am just curious.

I need enlightenment. TIA and MOO

wm

There is a "bad" significance to "grills", yes. Fashions often communicate something. For example, the "preppie" look of the late 80's communicated I am part of the conservative establishment and want to be rich, those little baby hair barettes high school girls used to wear communicate I'm a really cute little girl, and grills are considered "tough". Like a rebel flag decal on the back of a pick up truck. They're a warning.

 

[JeannaT]

In a previous thread I linked to two articles where TM's dad's Gave different versions of why/what/when TM was out. One spoke of TM being punished for his suspension and they finally let him run to the store.

I agree. In all fairness, I think we can all empathize with the dad for wanting to paint a different picture - a very innocent, boyish picture - of his deceased son. The way Natalee Holloway's mother wanted to paint a very innocent picture of Natalee when she went missing. To garner the public support and the support of LE in investigating their cases. We all get that, and understand that.

But having said that, we also can be truthful about the fact that Tracy Martin has completely changed the story from reality about Trayvon and what happened the day he went missing. After he devised the excuse to go to the store to get skittles, Trayvon went missing and the dad must have known it. He didn't return from the store, and when Trayvon hadn't shown up 4 hours later, the dad turned off his phone and went to bed. Without making even the slightest attempt to find him. There isn't even any evidence that he made any attempt to reach Trayvon himself by calling his phone, and then taking the step to turn his own phone off before going to bed, he apparently didn't have any suspicions that something unexpected had happened to Trayvon - but rather, he was out who knows where without permission.

 

[LambChop]

So this is how I understand your post jadedcat??? :waitasec:
Let’s look at Zimmerman’s background Lets NOT look at Trayvons background.
Fair Character analysis means nothing. so let’s just tilt the case to one side.
Because looking into GZ seems OK but looking into TM means nothing as you said.
Hhhhmmmm?

I think the reason that we are looking at GZ's background he because he is the one who used deadly force, felt comfortable following TM even though he knew LE was on their way to the scene. Plus the fact that the very reasons that GZ thought TM was suspicious turned out to be false regardless of what TM's background was. TM was on his way home talking to his gf not on his way to break into a condo, certainly not with a can of ice tea and a bag of Skittles on him. TM's focus at the time GZ caught up with him was his gf and whatever they were talking about.

To me at the point where TM's on the phone with the gf and she hears a scuffle and the phone goes dead is probably when there was an encounter. With GZ's background information I would be more likely to believe he tried to keep TM from leaving until LE got there. My guess is TM tried to leave and GZ may have tried to stop him and that is how the fight began. I also think if TM told GZ he was staying there as a guest GZ would never have believed him because it would have made GZ took foolish in the eyes of LE and the thought could have angered GZ even more. jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

Do you know for fact it was an active investigation between 2/26 and the time it hit the media? Link?

What wrong information?

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/subindex/news/trayvon_martin

 

[francie]

Homeowner association could be sued in Martin case

April 9, 2012 3:11 AM

SANFORD, Fla. — If Trayvon Martin's family sues over his death, they might not target George Zimmerman but instead the homeowners association of the neighborhood where the shooting happened and Zimmerman lived.

That's because if Zimmerman's claim that he shot the unarmed 17-year-old in self-defense is upheld by prosecutors, a judge or a jury, Florida's so-called stand your ground law would protect him from a lawsuit. But his clearance or acquittal wouldn't stop Martin's parents from suing The Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowners association — and its insurance policies and assets would make it a much more lucrative target than Zimmerman, even if he is eventually convicted of a crime.

Plus, lawyers say, Exhibit A would be a newsletter sent by the association to residents in February, the same month as the shooting. It said Zimmerman was the go-to person for residents who had been the victims of a crime.

More at link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162-57411121/homeowner-association-could-be-sued-in-martin-case/

----------------------------------------------------------------------

WSers figured this out eons ago, perhaps the Associated Press should be checking here to stay on top of things. :giggle:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

There is a "bad" significance to "grills", yes. Fashions often communicate something. For example, the "preppie" look of the late 80's communicated I am part of the conservative establishment and want to be rich, those little baby hair barettes high school girls used to wear communicate I'm a really cute little girl, and grills are considered "tough". Like a rebel flag decal on the back of a pick up truck. They're a warning.

Thanks for your response Jenna T. You made some interesting analogies and valid points.

MOO

wm

 

[JeannaT]

I think the reason that we are looking at GZ's background he because he is the one who used deadly force, felt comfortable following TM even though he knew LE was on their way to the scene. Plus the fact that the very reasons that GZ thought TM was suspicious turned out to be false regardless of what TM's background was. TM was on his way home talking to his gf not on his way to break into a condo, certainly not with a can of ice tea and a bag of Skittles on him. TM's focus at the time GZ caught up with him was his gf and whatever they were talking about.

To me at the point where TM's on the phone with the gf and she hears a scuffle and the phone goes dead is probably when there was an encounter. With GZ's background information I would be more likely to believe he tried to keep TM from leaving until LE got there. My guess is TM tried to leave and GZ may have tried to stop him and that is how the fight began. I also think if TM told GZ he was staying there as a guest GZ would never have believed him because it would have made GZ took foolish in the eyes of LE and the thought could have angered GZ even more. jmo

Some of us think it's crucial to look at TM's background to try to understand if it's likely he was actually doing something that looked suspicious, and if it's likely he threw the first punch.

I would be more comfortable with the girlfriend's account if she had spoken to LE right away, rather than much after her encounters with TM's lawyers. I would also be more comfortable with her account had she made some attempt - ANY attempt - to get help for Trayvon after hearing what would have certainly been a very upsetting encounter.

 

[songline]

I am NOT saying we know the verdict - I'm saying I think there should have been an investigation from the first moment!

Why would anyone NOT want the shooting of a child, of anyone, investigated thoroughly and completely? And yet, for the 8 days after this shooting, until Trayvon's family issued a press release, it appears that Sanford PD was done. They had made their decision. Talk about a rush to judgement!!!

Now it is 6 weeks later, and LE is still not telling us why GZ is walking free. If it was so obvious that they could make a decision in a few hours, why do they think the public is so stupid that we couldn't figure it out in 43 days?

The only rush to judgement was by the people in charge on 2/26.

As you may remember from my other posts a thorough investigation was and is very important and should have been don from the start.
On this we both agree 100%

but like you said WHY a rush conclusion??? Now that it is in the hands of the investigators namely FBI why is
it we cant wait?
why do we have to rush what should never have been rushed in the first place.
Why are we pointing fingers at GZ maybe just maybe we can wait to do that later too.
I do not for the life of me understand how people can come to conclusions without all the facts.
YES sadly one is dead way too young, but biblical Law does say that if someone is a threat to your life you have a
right to kill them. DO WE REALLY HAVE ALL THE FACTS? we do not. I do hope that we will.
Sadly the way I have seen this case all along is it will be a connect the dots verdict. I think those 2 minutes
have no witness at all..

 

[annalia]

It can change a lot. If TM was hanging out, in the rain and not walking directly back then it could negate the racial profiling and out to get someone wanna be cop. GZ is on the way to the store, sees a tall person hanging out, in the rain, going in no real direction and he thinks who is this and What is he up to. That sets in motion the events. If TM was on a 'you were suspended so get to the store and back' rule then it could negate GZ saying he looked suspicious. From that rule we could assume TM was walking directly to the house, maybe ducking under a porch for a respite from the rain, but on a deadline to get back to the house. If TM did get the reprieve to run to the store and back then another possible assumption could be that once he saw someone following him he would have just hightailed it home for safety and because he didn't want to be in more trouble for taking too long. Similar to the 911 operator saying 'we don't need you to be doing that.' It could have made a difference if the operator demanded GZ to get back in the car, or said 'no stop following.' It is not the dad's or the operator's fault, but what was said and the boundaries given add to determining each person's actions.

If nothing else that happens before matters then nothing should matter except those few seconds when TM and GZ were together. But since TM can not tell us, then his story must be pieced together to best represent what his version would have been. Moo

:waitasec:

What taking too long? What deadline? It was 7PM, and he was walking back towards the house. Again, we're not talking 2 in the morning here.

The comparison to the 911 operator telling GZ that they didn't need him to do that to Trayon walking back to the house, is apples/oranges.

Re the bolded; that's neither here nor there and irrelevant. Again, it was only 7PM and he was walking back towards the house. It actually supports Trayvon going to the store and returning home.

Who said that nothing before that matters? What matters is that by all accounts Trayvon had gone to the store and was returning home. Unless the father is a suspect in his son's death, the other stuff is just a deflection.

JMHO

 

[Nore]

Hi, I as I said before am waiting for more info on this case though I must say this.
I was robbed at work at gunpoint. It was a snub nose automatic handgun ( not familiar with guns.)At no time was I a threat to the gunman. If I'd had a knife, baseball bat etc. the moment I'd have raised my arm a bit he would have shot me. Trust me I was no match for that weapon!!lease:

 

[TonyGatto]

There is a "bad" significance to "grills", yes. Fashions often communicate something. For example, the "preppie" look of the late 80's communicated I am part of the conservative establishment and want to be rich, those little baby hair barettes high school girls used to wear communicate I'm a really cute little girl, and grills are considered "tough". Like a rebel flag decal on the back of a pick up truck. They're a warning.

To compare "grills", which are essentially pieces of jewelry, to the "rebel flag", which is considered by many to be a sign of hate, displays, at the very least, a lack of historical perspective. IMO

 

[songline]

Some of us think it's crucial to look at TM's background to try to understand if it's likely he was actually doing something that looked suspicious, and if it's likely he threw the first punch.

I would be more comfortable with the girlfriend's account if she had spoken to LE right away, rather than much after her encounters with TM's lawyers. I would also be more comfortable with her account had she made some attempt - ANY attempt - to get help for Trayvon after hearing what would have certainly been a very upsetting encounter.

THANKS IMHO you have a fair eye

 

[LambChop]

In a previous thread I linked to two articles where TM's dad's Gave different versions of why/what/when TM was out. One spoke of TM being punished for his suspension and they finally let him run to the store.

That is still one version, not two or many. The father didn't say he was punished and wasn't allowed out of the house and later said TM really wasn't punished and allowed out of the house. We don't know what the punishment was just that he was permitted to go to the store and if TM later decided to go to the movies with his cousin he had his father's permission. It appears Mr. Martin was aware of where his son could have been because TM had already asked permission. Why is it being presented as a negative thing? It sounds very responsible on Mr. Martin's part. What am I missing here. jmo

 

[JeannaT]

To compare "grills", which are essentially pieces of jewelry, to the "rebel flag", which is considered by many to be a sign of hate, displays, at the very least, a lack of historical perspective. IMO

I don't lack any historical perspective at all.

So okay. Let me come up with a closer analogy to grills. How about stovepipe pants that are falling off? That might be more close to grills.

(I actually do have a very clear understanding of the rebel flag, and the implications, and was there in Biloxi the day Mississippi was set to rule on whether to change the state flag. I get it.)

 

[francie]

Trayvon Martin Case Spotlights Florida Town's History Of 'Sloppy' Police Work

Posted: 04/9/2012 8:35 am

SANFORD, Fla. -- In the summer of 2010, a masked man gunned down Ikeem Ruffin, 17, in an apartment complex on this city's north side. When police arrived, they found Ruffin dead and another teenager beside the body calling for an ambulance. The next day, police charged the teen with robbery and murder.

Prosecutors dropped the murder charge last August and said another man, still unidentified, pulled the trigger. Teresa Ruffin, the victim’s mother, said the police overlooked important evidence -- including a witness who pointed to another suspect -- and allowed her son's killer to go free.

“They didn’t do their job,” Ruffin said of the police.

Ruffin, who is black, said she sees parallels between how Sanford police officers handled her son’s murder and how they investigated the killing of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed teenager shot to death Feb. 26 by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who told police he acted in self-defense.

Police said they couldn’t refute Zimmerman’s claim and haven't arrested him, unleashing withering criticism over perceived missteps and favoritism.

"All this with Trayvon is just bringing the light on the Sanford Police Department," Ruffin said. "This happened for a reason.”

Long article at link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/09/trayvon-martin-cops-botched-investigation_n_1409277.html

 

[Bottle Cap]

There is a "bad" significance to "grills", yes. Fashions often communicate something. For example, the "preppie" look of the late 80's communicated I am part of the conservative establishment and want to be rich, those little baby hair barettes high school girls used to wear communicate I'm a really cute little girl, and grills are considered "tough". Like a rebel flag decal on the back of a pick up truck. They're a warning.

BBM Would you mind letting us know what that bad significance is?

Here's a link to a Wikipedia article about grills, and while there's a lot of reference to hip hop culture, they're mostly viewed as teeth jewelry. I think saying they're worn to send an "I'm tough" message is a subjective statement. One could easily say they're worn to send an "I'm rich" message instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grill_(jewelry)

 

[JeannaT]

That is still one version, not two or many. The father didn't say he was punished and wasn't allowed out of the house and later said TM really wasn't punished and allowed out of the house. We don't know what the punishment was just that he was permitted to go to the store and if TM later decided to go to the movies with his cousin he had his father's permission. It appears Mr. Martin was aware of where his son could have been because TM had already asked permission. Why is it being presented as a negative thing? It sounds very responsible on Mr. Martin's part. What am I missing here. jmo

I've never heard the dad say he was being "punished", and I don't fault him for not "punishing" Trayvon. He was a boy who had that year pretty much lost his way for whatever reason, and i'm not a big punisher. The dad was clear that he took him to Sanford to dissociate him from his friends and try to get him back on track.

One of the things he was doing, it appears, to get him back on track was to supervise him very well and not let him leave the house. But Trayvon finally wore his dad down and came up with an innocent enough sounding ruse to leave, and he did. I think we all get that.

It's when he never returned, that this all kind of falls apart and you realize he wasn't being well supervised at all - when he failed to ever return, the dad turned his phone off and went to bed, having no idea whatsoever where his son was. Without a car, without friends in the area, his son was gone and no attempt whatsoever was made to find him until 8 am the next morning.

 

[TonyGatto]

Some of us think it's crucial to look at TM's background to try to understand if it's likely he was actually doing something that looked suspicious, and if it's likely he threw the first punch.

I would be more comfortable with the girlfriend's account if she had spoken to LE right away, rather than much after her encounters with TM's lawyers. I would also be more comfortable with her account had she made some attempt - ANY attempt - to get help for Trayvon after hearing what would have certainly been a very upsetting encounter.

Does it make you uncomfortable that police never checked TM's phone and therefore were unaware that he was on the phone just seconds before he was shot to death by GZ?

 

[suzihawk]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/subindex/news/trayvon_martin

It was the media as far as I am concerned.

It had never not been under investigation. That is what has some mad. But I fail to see where "the ball was dropped". The only thing that changed was it went national with the wrong information. That is the way I have seen it. Just because he was allowed to leave did not make it a closed case. With the CC law and the SYG law and the "facts" as they (LE) were told, were told by GZ and the "eye" witnesses which matched his story and then the interviews at the station so at that point why not release him while the case is under investigation.jmo

Thanks for the link. That report doesn't prove that there was an ongoing investgation. I've seen no indication of any ongoing investgation by the SPD between 2/26 and when it hit the media. JMO

What wrong information went national?