17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[Concerned Papa]

Thanks for the welcome To clarify, I see that is his point, but my question is where does the notion of hiding come from in the first place? When I read the snippets from the interview, I don't see a suggestion that Trayvon had been hiding or that George didn't see him approach from the left. So why/how does "no place to hide" come into play in the first place? As I read it, George was approached from the left, TM made no effort to hide, and GZ saw him, heard him and responded to him. Who said TM was hiding is my question, I guess. I probably not being very clear :/

eta: okay, I went back and read your post. Am I understanding correctly that the hiding part comes from OP'er?

The implication of “hiding”, “jumped from behind”, “approached from behind” for a surprise attack has been there from the beginning in the Zimmerman version of events. There’s thousands of articles on the net quoting or referencing one descriptive phrase or another as part of his explanation.

Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him.

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/w...ayvon.Martin.Before.the.world.heard.the.cries

In his version of events, Zimmerman had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words and then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

IMO, you can take your pick as to the descriptive metaphor, but I've got a problem understanding how any form of "come from behind" attack could be likely in such a wide open scenario.

 

[octobermoon]

Yes I do the same thing, Some of the "head Lines" tell me straight away there is favoritism to one side of the other I won't even read, I want the facts and not someones opinion of what happened and why I should feel the way they feel. They lost me on this one with the pictures. I pretty much knew then that some deciphering and extra reading would be taking place.
So with that said, Zimmerman told dispatch to have LE come straight in past the pool on the left and then turn left iirc to me he would be telling them to come in where he was/had left his car. He then went to the sidewalk that runs across the width of the property with the townhomes to his right. He would then be able to walk up to the first set of townhomes and us the building as cover to peer around the corner of the building to watch as TM was walking or (whatever) towards the home he is going to. I wonder if at this point/time is some of the lost time. idk

I am confused as to why GZ would need "cover"? Police were on their way.
He was told they didn't need him to follow. Why would GZ need to sneak around looking at a kid in the rain with the officers on route?

 

[Chris_Texas]

Hello! I'm brand new to this thread and to WS. It took me quite a while to work up to registering and getting my registration approved, and then to get the nerve up to chime in. lol But this seems to be as good a place as any to post for the very first time. I can't quote your quote-within-a quote, but it says, basically, that Trayvon approached George from the left from the sidewalk between the buildings and said "asked him did he have a problem. George said no." Then you say that you don't believe this because there was no place for Trayvon to have been "hiding" and that George would have seen him.

Where does the hiding part come from? Did the interviewee also say that Trayvon had been hiding? To me, from the quoted parts of the interview, it sounds like Trayvon just approached George and said something to which George responded. I don't see from that statement any reason to infer that he didn't see Trayvon coming or that George made, or had any reason to make, an effort to avoid that contact. I think I've seen the word "hiding" mentioned somewhere in all of this, but I don't remember where that term came from.

:welcome4::welcome::wagon::welcome::welcome4:

I believe the idea is that Zimmerman walked to that intersection and Trayvon was already out of sight, and on his return he then encountered Trayvon and was attacked.

There are lots of problems with this story, only one of which is the visability thing. The biggest, in my opinion, is that this isn't where the shooting took place. This is setting aside the incredible idea that this kid who, according to Zimmerman, had run previously, would suddenly come back to attack him.

 

[Karmady]

The implication of “hiding”, “jumped from behind”, “approached from behind” for a surprise attack has been there from the beginning in the Zimmerman version of events. There’s thousands of articles on the net quoting or referencing one descriptive phrase or another as part of his explanation.



IMO, you can take your pick as to the descriptive metaphor, but I've got a problem understanding how any form of "come from behind" attack could be likely in such a wide open scenario.

Thanks for the explanation and the links. My apologies if I sound like I'm not paying attention. It's hard to follow everything, especially when you've not been personally participating in the discussion. Hopefully my comments and questions will become more intelligent, but there's no guarantee of that!

 

[Adrienne37]

Yes I do the same thing, Some of the "head Lines" tell me straight away there is favoritism to one side of the other I won't even read, I want the facts and not someones opinion of what happened and why I should feel the way they feel. They lost me on this one with the pictures. I pretty much knew then that some deciphering and extra reading would be taking place.
So with that said, Zimmerman told dispatch to have LE come straight in past the pool on the left and then turn left iirc to me he would be telling them to come in where he was/had left his car. He then went to the sidewalk that runs across the width of the property with the townhomes to his right. He would then be able to walk up to the first set of townhomes and us the building as cover to peer around the corner of the building to watch as TM was walking or (whatever) towards the home he is going to. I wonder if at this point/time is some of the lost time. idk

BBM - is part of his neighborhood watch "duties" to be using a building for cover so he could watch people coming and going? That's a scary thought.



~jmo~

 

[mercuriod]

--exactly. a funeral director is most certainly not an M.E. his job, once receiving the body ( which arrives freshly washed , as "Joypath" has informed us ) is to prepare the body for burial, not conduct an examination.

I thought 2 other posters, GrandmaJ (a mod) being one of the, both of whom work in funeral homes, one of which is a funeral director, told us that the ME does not wash the body, that is the job of the funeral director. The ME may "swab wash" certain areas from which they are taking samples but does not wash the body.

Not going back several threads to look for those post so will add - - - jmo, imo and all that jazz

 

[LolaMoon08]

Thanks for the explanation and the links. My apologies if I sound like I'm not paying attention. It's hard to follow everything, especially when you've not been personally participating in the discussion. Hopefully my comments and questions will become more intelligent, but there's no guarantee of that!

You're doing great! :rocker:

The way <modsnip> have made it appear is like this --

1) Trayvon starts running/walking fast and disappears behind the buildings.

2) George Zimmerman gets out of his truck, not to follow Trayvon (even though he admitted he was), but to walk over to the next street to get an address. He passes the large open area where Trayvon would have been walking/running, but there is no mention that he seen Trayvon at all? So he walks to the other street, jots the address down, and starts walking back to his truck.

3) While walking back to his truck, Trayvon appears out of nowhere (he must have been hiding??) and confronts George with "What's your *advertiser censored**ing problem" and George says "I don't have a problem" and that is when Trayvon jumped George from behind.

Somehow... some way... Trayvon was able to punch George in the nose from behind and crazy enough, George fell backwards and not forward from the impact? That's some Matrix type stuff there.

It's a jumbled mess. We would be in a much better place if we could simply have the autopsy report, the written and recorded statements George Zimmerman made the night of the shooting, his recorded walk-through the next day, and forensics on both Trayvon and George's clothes.

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

 

[Chris_Texas]

BBM - is part of his neighborhood watch "duties" to be using a building for cover so he could watch people coming and going? That's a scary thought.

~jmo~

:waitasec: Next time I get caught peeping through my neighbors windows I can try the neighborhood watch defense! :woohoo:

Kidding!


I've never been caught.

 

[mercuriod]

:waitasec: Next time I get caught peeping through my neighbors windows I can try the neighborhood watch defense! :woohoo:

Kidding!


I've never been caught.

All I gots to say is I had better not be your neighbor.....you would not like my reaction!

 

[vlpate]

And I believe the funeral director was also asked if he had observed any scrapes or scratches on TM's knuckles or hands and the director said no because they would have to apply something to wounds on the hands to cover it. If you were banging someone's head, who had no hair to grab onto, on the pavement with your hands how could you do that without being injured yourself? There is nothing but the head to grab???? jmo

I don't think he was holding his head and banging it into the cement, and if he was, why would he hold the back of his head, banging his hands at the same time? IMO, he was either hitting GZ in the head, causing his head to hit the cement, or covering GZ's mouth forcefully, hitting his head on the ground. Somewhere I read TM covered GZ's mouth, but for some reason I didn't buy it, IDR.

JMO

 

[Chris_Texas]

All I gots to say is I had better not be your neighbor.....you would not like my reaction!

No doubt. Here in Texas that would be an excellent way to get shot.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I thought 2 other posters, GrandmaJ (a mod) being one of the, both of whom work in funeral homes, one of which is a funeral director, told us that the ME does not wash the body, that is the job of the funeral director. The ME may "swab wash" certain areas from which they are taking samples but does not wash the body.

Not going back several threads to look for those post so will add - - - jmo, imo and all that jazz

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7750938&postcount=486"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15[/ame]

 

[mercuriod]

No doubt. Here in Texas that would be an excellent way to get shot.

Yep, but I thought better of posting that part in case sometime in the future I need to use this defense, LOL. :what:

 

[JeannaT]

I find it interesting that you find the idea of an arrest dangerous. I am impressed, most would say the only danger was NOT making an arrest. You are clearly paying attention to the racial tensions on the other side of this issue.

No, I actually misspoke. The first sentence is correct, the second sentence should have said "no arrest".

 

[LambChop]

I don't think he was holding his head and banging it into the cement, and if he was, why would he hold the back of his head, banging his hands at the same time? IMO, he was either hitting GZ in the head, causing his head to hit the cement, or covering GZ's mouth forcefully, hitting his head on the ground. Somewhere I read TM covered GZ's mouth, but for some reason I didn't buy it, IDR.

JMO

Then we would expect to see a lot more damage to GZ's face if TM were hitting him hard enough to bang his head against the cement. But that is not what was being said......it was banging GZ's head against the cement, not punching GZ hard enough so his head was hitting the cement. If TM used his hands a weapon we would expect to see some damage to his hands either way. Also with a bloody nose that GZ had if TM hit him in the face he would have blood on his hands and under his nails. So you would have to wait for that. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Thanks for the explanation and the links. My apologies if I sound like I'm not paying attention. It's hard to follow everything, especially when you've not been personally participating in the discussion. Hopefully my comments and questions will become more intelligent, but there's no guarantee of that!

Were you able to listen to the 911 calls and read the material on the Sanford PD website before it was taken down? If not, there are members who have saved everything - just ask and I'll bet they would be happy to help out.

Happy sleuthing!!

 

[LolaMoon08]

This is what I am waiting to see --- in order ---

1) George Zimmerman arrested and charged with manslaughter.

2) George Zimmerman's written statement the night of the shooting.

3) George Zimmerman's recorded interview with SPD the night of the shooting.

4) The recorded walk-through at the scene the day after the shooting. Where George gives full details on how it happened.

5) Trayvon's autopsy report.

6) I want a full, detailed report on George Zimmerman's injuries. Clear photographic evidence included.

7) Forensics on George Zimmerman and Trayvon's clothes.

8) Forensic evidence on George Zimmerman's gun. Fingerprints, etc...

9) I want to see a documented grid of the crimescene. I want to know where that bullet casing was and how far away it was from Trayvon's body. I want to know where every drop of blood was and I want to know whose blood it was. Where did the fight begin... and where did it end.

10) I want to see any and all videos from the complex the night of the shooting.

11) I want to see any and all dash cam videos at the scene of the shooting/the night of the shooting.

12) I want to see all exits and entrances into the Sanford Police Department inbetween the time George arrived and the time he left. a) I want to make sure George Zimmerman was wearing a change of clothes b) I want to see if that "meeting" really did take place.

I'm sure there is more... but these are the most important to me.

MOO

 

[csziggy]

Here is the synopsis: A TV network cynically exploits a deranged ex-TV anchor's ravings and revelations about the media for their own profit.

Oh, it's about a little more than that:

Arthur Jensen: You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale, and I won't have it! Is that clear? You think you've merely stopped a business deal. That is not the case! The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and inane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU... WILL... ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale? You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM, and ITT, and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today. What do you think the Russians talk about in their councils of state, Karl Marx? They get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do. We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Beale, to see that... perfect world... in which there's no war or famine, oppression or brutality. One vast and ecumenical holding company, for whom all men will work to serve a common profit, in which all men will hold a share of stock. All necessities provided, all anxieties tranquilized, all boredom amused. And I have chosen you, Mr. Beale, to preach this evangel.
Howard Beale: Why me?
Arthur Jensen: Because you're on television, dummy. Sixty million people watch you every night of the week, Monday through Friday.
Howard Beale: I have seen the face of God.
Arthur Jensen: You just might be right, Mr. Beale.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074958/quotes

That was 1976 and things have not changed one bit - if anything they have gotten much worse. But any more discussion on this should probably move to a different place. :seeya:

 

[curl_in_progress]

Then we would expect to see a lot more damage to GZ's face if TM were hitting him hard enough to bang his head against the cement. But that is not what was being said......it was banging GZ's head against the cement, not punching GZ hard enough so his head was hitting the cement. If TM used his hands a weapon we would expect to see some damage to his hands either way. Also with a bloody nose that GZ had if TM hit him in the face he would have blood on his hands and under his nails. So you would have to wait for that. jmo

This. ^^^ Also, Zimmerman Sr. stated in an interview that Trayvon was beating GZ in the face and nose repeatedly. So if his nose was broken with the alleged first punch and then he was continuously punched in the face and nose, he should have been pouring blood onto his clothing, IMO. I've seen a few debates that a broken nose doesn't always bleed, but I don't see how someone can reportedly be punched in the nose multiple times and there's no blood on their clothing? I think Trayvon should have SOME sort of injuries to his hands if he issued such a severe beating to GZ.

Link to FOX interview with Zimmerman Sr. stating that GZ was punched in the nose and face repeatedly after the alleged first punch by Trayvon. At the 2:00 mark.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeimONANcQg"]Zimmerman's Father: Trayvon Martin Attacked George Zimmerman and Tried to Kill Him. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[vlpate]

I have never in my life heard of the height or weight of a person being used in court to determine if they are an adult. Makes no sense to me.

On your link it says Trayvon was 6'3. On the police report it says Trayvon is 6'. Where is the 6'3 coming from? Police had the body, they would have measured it.

I'm just posting what Angela Cory stated and she had access to more information than I do. Martin's weight wasn't mentioned on the police report - so I don't know if they actually measured Trayvon, or had to guess since he had no ID on him. Not at all sure how that works. IMO