17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[jaded cat]

I don't speak for jenny, but I believe she means that SYG immunity is granted so easily and often, it seem unlikely that any attorney wouldn't take a shot at it.

Thanks, Nova. I saw what she was asking but didn't understand how it related to me. I asked impatientredhead about a case of a man getting on his bike, riding to someone else's house and shooting a person. He got off on SYG and I can't for the life me understand why.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Are there any MSM links that have stated Zimmerman was "slurring" on the 911 call?

The night of Feb. 26, Zimmerman made a non-emergency call to police before fatally shooting Martin, in which he told a dispatcher, "This guy looks like he's up to no good, on drugs or something."

But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.

"When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.

http://gma.yahoo.com/neighborhood-w...on-martin-wanted-cop-211535382--abc-news.html

 

[HiHater]

It is a bit confusing, IMO what he is saying is that GZ's statement is that he managed to scoot his head away from the cement sidewalk and that is when the shooting happened and that is NOT consistant with the evidence that they found


But that the injuries to GZ's head appear to be consistant with his head hitting an object that is harder than his head and that could be concrete or a bowling ball or the side of a building....but that the injuries could be consistant with hitting his head on concrete. IMO JMHO and stuff.

hmmm...maybe there was no blood in the grass? Also, where Trayvon's body and the shell casing were found could dispute GZ's story as well.


Oh, and about the website, I think the attempt to distance may have something to do with Crump pointing out that it contained no apology...

JMO MOO IMO

 

[highflyer]

Are there any MSM links that have stated Zimmerman was "slurring" on the 911 call?

I personally have no links but IMO on the 911 tape it sounds like someone slurring their words. Mr. Zimmerman did not sound like that when he spoke in court. Still had a very soft voice but he did not sound the same. Some of that could be attributed to it being a prepared statement, but nevertheless it was different.

 

[Nova]

Richard Hornsby makes an interesting argument.

"As a result, the charge of Second Degree Murder would be subject to dismissal under Florida’s self-defense law"

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2012/04/who-was-the-first-aggressor/

It is interesting and the article as a whole is very helpful. But I think it's very important to remember that Hornsby writes from a defense attorney's point of view. He seems to take it for granted that the account attributed to GZ is true.

Of course, now we are hearing there are more than one GZ account.

 

[Zak]

BBM There is not one ounce of proof that any of that happened. Even the investigator that took the stand at the bond hearing said his injuries weren't consistent with his head being bashed on concrete. He said they were more like scrape marks. If someone unidentified was following me suspiciously like GZ was doing and snuck up behind me believe you me I'd do anything to protect myself. Even if Trayvon did punch GZ I think it was Trayvon's right to defend himself. Plus Trayvon is the one dead. Why wouldn't GZ make up any story to save his own butt, Trayvon can't defend himself and that's what is so sad in this case.

BBM

Respectfully, the investigator said no such thing. You may want to go back and read the transcripts if you haven't already.

 

[kimpage]

The night of Feb. 26, Zimmerman made a non-emergency call to police before fatally shooting Martin, in which he told a dispatcher, "This guy looks like he's up to no good, on drugs or something."

But law enforcement expert Rod Wheeler who listened to the tapes tells ABC News that Zimmerman, not Martin, sounded intoxicated in the police recordings of the 911 calls.

"When I listened to the 911 tape the first thing that came to my mind is this guy sounds intoxicated. Notice how he's slurring his words. We as trained law enforcement officers, we know how to listen for that right away and I think that's going to be an important element of this entire investigation," Wheeler said.

http://gma.yahoo.com/neighborhood-w...on-martin-wanted-cop-211535382--abc-news.html

Thanks Doc for that article.I believe he was drinking that night. IMHO JMHO and all that

 

[Sensei]

hmmm...maybe there was no blood in the grass? Also, where Trayvon's body and the shell casing were found could dispute GZ's story as well.


Oh, and about the website, I think the attempt to distance may have something to do with Crump pointing out that it contained no apology...

JMO MOO IMO

I am highly suspicious of the head injuries simply because of the location of them, and don't find that consistant with where the injury would be if you have your head slammed against concrete from a laying down position.

I also took note that the picture shows no splatter of the blood, no dirt, debris or grass, and there appears to be a lot of welling or pooling blood but that is not the best picture in the world...I find it interesting that the emphasis seems to be that there is evidence that GZ's story of what point and when after scooting his head off concrete the shooting occurred is contradicted by something that they found.

As far as the website, there may have been a variety of reasons, one that there was no apology, and the fact that many have charactarized the site as arrogant and showing no remorse for taking a life and that is off putting to many. Also, there is a chance that someone could track down GZ if he is posting to that site, by tracking down the IP address, so it was a security risk in that way too.

 

[Nova]

Thanks, Nova. I saw what she was asking but didn't understand how it related to me. I asked impatientredhead about a case of a man getting on his bike, riding to someone else's house and shooting a person. He got off on SYG and I can't for the life me understand why.

IANAL, but I believe the judge in that case ruled that the shooter (the father on the bicycle) had a legal right to follow his speeding neighbor down the block to the speeder's house.

Apparently, the judge ruled that the confrontation didn't start until sometime during the conversation that ensued and that the speeder was the "First Aggressor" (see Hornsby) at that time. Therefore, the shooter had a right to use deadly force because at that time he feared for his life.

It probably didn't help that the speeder was drunk and the first to use physical force.

 

[Allusonz]

It is interesting and the article as a whole is very helpful. But I think it's very important to remember that Hornsby writes from a defense attorney's point of view. He seems to take it for granted that the account attributed to GZ is true.

Of course, now we are hearing there are more than one GZ account.

Yes he does which is why I found it to be even more interesting based on the bond hearing and many of the facts we do not as of yet know.

 

[Adrienne37]

As for the possibility of Zimmerman drinking and slurring words on the night of Trayvon's murder, we do know from at least one article that he liked to drink and hang with the girls. I believe his former coworker stated he was like Jekyll and Hyde and when he snapped, he snapped. to describe him were When the dude snapped, he snapped.”


~jmo~

 

[Phoenixfla]

I'm just wondering how Trayvon was:

1) Pinning GZ down (takes 2 hands)
2) Covering GZ's mouth with BOTH hands with all his body weight (takes 2 hands)
3) Smashing GZ's head over and over on the sidewalk, one step away from being spoon fed and wearing diapers. (takes 2 hands)

How do you bash someone’s head into the sidewalk while you have them pinned, when that person outweighs you and is putting up a fight? Can’t be done. His head might bump the sidewalk as they are rolling about in a fight, but there is no way Trayvon would be able to purposefully “slam” his head into anything and still have enough arms free to keep him pinned.
Same can be said about the other ridiculous fabrication of Trayvon holding his mouth and nose with all his weight

Let me offer you one possible scenario.

TM approaches GZ and after words are exchanged TM strikes GZ in the face sending him to the ground, with GZ laying on his back. TM then drops to his knees straddling GZ at the waist and continues to strike him in the face. This causes a broken nose, busted lip, and lacerations to the back of his head. GZ screams for help which is recorded on the 911 call and witnessed by John. TM is then worried that he will be caught by whomever hears the call for help and decided he needed to silence GZ and placed his hands over GZs mouth and nose. GZ no longer being able to yell for help, possibly suffocating, and wanting to stop the assault he was receiving, wiggled his way up far enough to pull his gun from his holster and fired one shot into TM.

TM, still straddling GM fell on top of him. GZ slid out from under TMs body leaving TM face down at the scene.

 

[Adrienne37]

Yes he does which is why I found it to be even more interesting based on the bond hearing and many of the facts we do not as of yet know.

Has Richard Hornsby seen what evidence there is in this case yet?



~jmo~

 

[badme102]

Richard Hornsby makes an interesting argument.

"As a result, the charge of Second Degree Murder would be subject to dismissal under Florida’s self-defense law"

http://blog.richardhornsby.com/2012/04/who-was-the-first-aggressor/

All due respect to Mr. Hornsby, but 2 of the lawmakers that crafted the SYG said that GZ does not fall under this defense.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...pply-To-Trayvon-Martin-Shooter-143684626.html

"He has no protection under my law," said Former Sen. Durell Peaden, one of the law's authors, The Miami Herald reported. "They got the goods on him. They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid."

Peaden said that when George Zimmerman told dispatch that he was following Martin he lost his defense under the law.

Rep. Dennis Baxley said it on Anderson Cooper too, but I'm still looking for that video.

 

[HiHater]

Let me offer you one possible scenario.

TM approaches GZ and after words are exchanged TM strikes GZ in the face sending him to the ground, with GZ laying on his back. TM then drops to his knees straddling GZ at the waist and continues to strike him in the face. This causes a broken nose, busted lip, and lacerations to the back of his head. GZ screams for help which is recorded on the 911 call and witnessed by John. TM is then worried that he will be caught by whomever hears the call for help and decided he needed to silence GZ and placed his hands over GZs mouth and nose. GZ no longer being able to yell for help, possibly suffocating, and wanting to stop the assault he was receiving, wiggled his way up far enough to pull his gun from his holster and fired one shot into TM.

TM, still straddling GM fell on top of him. GZ slid out from under TMs body leaving TM face down at the scene.

I didn't see a busted lip on the video where GZ was walking into the police station....

 

[jaded cat]

IANAL, but I believe the judge in that case ruled that the shooter (the father on the bicycle) had a legal right to follow his speeding neighbor down the block to the speeder's house.

Apparently, the judge ruled that the confrontation didn't start until sometime during the conversation that ensued and that the speeder was the "First Aggressor" (see Hornsby) at that time. Therefore, the shooter had a right to use deadly force because at that time he feared for his life.

It probably didn't help that the speeder was drunk and the first to use physical force.

Ya know, it could be just me but I think the death penalty for speeding is a little on the tough side! :waitasec:

Logically, I understand it. Emotionally, I never will.

 

[Adrienne37]

Let me offer you one possible scenario.

TM approaches GZ and after words are exchanged TM strikes GZ in the face sending him to the ground, with GZ laying on his back. TM then drops to his knees straddling GZ at the waist and continues to strike him in the face. This causes a broken nose, busted lip, and lacerations to the back of his head. GZ screams for help which is recorded on the 911 call and witnessed by John. TM is then worried that he will be caught by whomever hears the call for help and decided he needed to silence GZ and placed his hands over GZs mouth and nose. GZ no longer being able to yell for help, possibly suffocating, and wanting to stop the assault he was receiving, wiggled his way up far enough to pull his gun from his holster and fired one shot into TM.

TM, still straddling GM fell on top of him. GZ slid out from under TMs body leaving TM face down at the scene.

In your scenario, Trayvon's blood would be all over Zimmerman's clothes in addition to gunshot residue neither of which was present on the video of him at the police station.


~jmo~

 

[badme102]

BBM

Respectfully, the investigator said no such thing. You may want to go back and read the transcripts if you haven't already.

You may want to do the same, because he DID say they were inconsistent with GZ's "story" (#348738)

O'MARA; OK. Did you identify what caused those lacerations?

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Could it have been having his head bashed on the ground as he testified to?

GILBREATH: He suggested, I don't know about testified to, he mentioned that his head was being physically bashed against the concrete sidewalk, and that he...this was just prior to him firing the shot, and that he managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk, and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

 

[Adrienne37]

All due respect to Mr. Hornsby, but 2 of the lawmakers that crafted the SYG said that GZ does not fall under this defense.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...pply-To-Trayvon-Martin-Shooter-143684626.html



Rep. Dennis Baxley said it on Anderson Cooper too, but I'm still looking for that video.

In addition to Jeb Bush, the then governor of Florida who signed the bill into law.


~jmo~

 

[Dr.Fessel]

BBM

Respectfully, the investigator said no such thing. You may want to go back and read the transcripts if you haven't already.

That is exactly what the investigator said.
(Unidentified male is DE LA RIONDA)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that a lot of statements that he made do not make sense in terms of the injuries that he described. Did he not describe to the police that Mr. Martin had him on the ground and kept bashing his head on the concrete over and over and just physically beating him with his hands?


GILBREATH: He has said that, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And isn't it true that there is evidence that indicates that's not true?

GILBREATH: Yes.


........................................................................

then under questioning from OMara


.......................................................................

a commerical break then they pick back up on what is being said. ( ) are my words.



GILBREATH: Managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found.

O'MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don't they?

Dale; The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was. (he does not say they are consistent with Georges story of getting his head beat over and over on the cement which is Georges story.

O'MARA: Could that be cement?

GILBREATH: Could be.

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent?

GILBREATH: I said it was.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html