17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[Karmady]

And that is why he and his supporters are negating the fact that he was on his rounds and was headed across town for a gallon of milk.

According to mapquest, there is a SuperTarget 1.17 miles from the community. Don't know how to link it, but I think this was covered quite some time ago and easy to google.

 

[jaded cat]

Yep, like I said earlier, there is a big difference between the gated and public communities.

This in particular probably true: ". Mr. Martin’s “suspicious” profile amounted to more than his black skin. ". I would go so far as to say the black skin may have had nothing to do with why he was profiled as "suspicious".

If you're black, I can see assuming that the suspicion about you is due to the black skin. And maybe that's what TM assumed, and it made him angry. But I know for a fact that simply being unfamiliar (regardless of age or race) makes you suspicious, in at least some, probably most, gated communities. I have no reason to believe that that wasn't all it took for GZ to treat TM as suspicious.

BBM

And there is an ocean of difference between gated communities. A lot of gated communities are no more than townhouses with a gate that's always open. Others have someone on duty all the time. The UMC subdivision my folks lived in in San Antonio had a gate that was closed all the time but all kinds of people had the gate code. Contractors, delivery trucks, pizza delivery, etc. It is almost impossible to make an accurate sweeping statement about gated communities.

The Retreat at Twin Lakes was a middle class community of diverse race. There would be no reason for a young man walking through the community to arouse suspicion. There are approx. 200 units there, including many rental units. I doubt anyone knew who absolutely belonged there at any given time.

Speculation about TM's motives or actions are not up for discussion. He is a victim. A young man who had a perfect right to be where he was, when he was.

I fail to see what is suspicious about walking, wearing a hoodie, talking on your cell phone and looking around to see where you are. He was a visitor there. The layout looks very confusing to me so if you didn't know exactly where you were, it could be tricky.

It would have been much smarter for GZ to simply step out of his truck, ask TM if he was lost or could he help him. See, that way, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[AngelWings444]

According to his "friend" Joe Oliver in an interview that we found this morning that was posted back on March 27. He said it was an officer that took the photo with his Iphone.


~jmo~

Thank you! So wait, we are now believing JO? :floorlaugh:

 

[csziggy]

And I'd also like to know if it was a Target that even carried groceries. My local Target (a regular one) didn't carry groceries until a few months ago. Now the Target Greatland is a different story...

The Target closest to the subdivision is a Super Target and does carry fresh groceries: "Fresh Grocery - A complete grocery store including a full-service deli and bakery." http://sites.target.com/site/en/spot/store_details.jsp?storeNumber=1966

They even have a Starbucks!

 

[shadowraiths]

We need an approved link to discuss the calls that George made.

I set up a section for collating the GZ case files over at my Forensic Psychology Portal, as previously noted by JBean.

shadowraiths has many of the documents catalogued. Not sure if what you may be looking for is here but here are some for safekeeping:
http://crimsonshadows.net/component/option,com_docman/task,cat_view/gid,120/Itemid,137/

The repository (see sig) not only includes the 911 call history document that was released by SPD but the 911 calls made the night of the fatal shooting, as well as some past 911 calls made by GZ. And, of course, the recent court doc dump. Hth!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

The only evidence that George was going to get groceries and not doing a patrol of the neighborhood is his word. The SA says he does not tell the truth.

 

[LolaMoon08]

And come to think about it -- all the housing projects are gated here? So are all the low-income complexes? I knew a girl who paid $14.00 a month for a nicer place than mine (space, bedrooms, kitchen, even bathroom was nicer).

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Thank you! So wait, we are now believing JO? :floorlaugh:

What Jo said on March 27 has some credit now that the picture from a phone was released the day of the hearing.

 

[jaded cat]

I want to expand on this because it goes back to the point I made in my first post on this thread, answering why GZ ever left his vehicle.

You really have to understand the "gated community mentality" to get it. On a public street everyone has a right to be there. I can get on a plane, fly to any city, get in a rent a car, drive around, park, and walk down any street, and really nobody has any reason to suspect me.

But if I drive into a private gated community, it all changes. Completely. People expect to know others. If they don't recognize you, they look at how you look, what you're driving, what your'e wearing, to determine if you belong. And if they can't tell, they might confront you, or call security, just to make sure. This is practically unheard of in a public street context.

So I think that's why people have such a hard time understanding GZ's attitude and behavior. Why did he get out of the car? Why did he follow TM? The answer is: gated community mentality. Perfectly normal and legal.

I have no clue where you live but this is not the case in most middle class gated communities. In a large area, how would anyone know who belonged there or not? 200 units, say 350 adults + children, is a lot of people. The complex was very spread out. Many units were rented so the occupants may change from month to month. Unless it is a sealed community, with only gate and no pedestrian walkways, there will always be people unknown to you, the average tenant. This was not an exclusive area. It was comprised of mostly working families.

With 200 or so total units, that exceeds the population of my average, middle class neighborhood. I know some of my neighbors because we've lived here for 16 years, as have they. Around us, many homes have been bought in sold during that time and I don't know the new neighbors. I see new cars in the driveway but I don't see the people, mostly just their kids. We have a NW on our street but, lucky for us, we've never had anything to report. If you turn right at the Tbone at the end of our street, eventually you will get to a main road, turn left and you are trapped!

 

[AngelWings444]

What Jo said on March 27 has some credit now that the picture from a phone was released the day of the hearing.

Maybe so. It might have been LE. If it was, LE has more problems than I thought. Especially if it was from a cell phone and released to the media. JMO

 

[LolaMoon08]

I wonder how much rent in that complex costs? Maybe I'll make a call in the morning to see how much they rent for? I'm just curious on how much it actually cost to live in that neighborhood? George's wife didn't work, so he would have had to have carried the financial burden. He was also going to school, and that costs money (he may have financial aid?).

I just wonder how he was able to afford to live there, but I am also questioning whether or not this was one of the complexes that started out as apartments, then switched to condo's, and after the housing crisis, it went back to apartments? The cost of living in those places is not that much, so did George even have a reason to feel entitled to this "Gated Community Mentality" that I guess exists?

MOO

 

[grandmaj]

Just read this article. In 2004 those units were selling for 250K. 40 empty units at the time of the shooting and more than half were renters out of 263 units.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece

The initial cost of a 1,400-square-foot townhome and the pass code to that front gate: $250,000. Today, post-boom, the price has dipped below $100,000. There are 263 units. Not exactly what I would call a luxury gated community.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

I want to expand on this because it goes back to the point I made in my first post on this thread, answering why GZ ever left his vehicle.

You really have to understand the "gated community mentality" to get it. On a public street everyone has a right to be there. I can get on a plane, fly to any city, get in a rent a car, drive around, park, and walk down any street, and really nobody has any reason to suspect me.

But if I drive into a private gated community, it all changes. Completely. People expect to know others. If they don't recognize you, they look at how you look, what you're driving, what your'e wearing, to determine if you belong. And if they can't tell, they might confront you, or call security, just to make sure. This is practically unheard of in a public street context.

So I think that's why people have such a hard time understanding GZ's attitude and behavior. Why did he get out of the car? Why did he follow TM? The answer is: gated community mentality. Perfectly normal and legal.

The "gated community mentality" doesn't have anything to do with why I don't understand Zimmerman's attitude and behavior. I don't understand his behavior because it was paranoid and aggressive to the point that he had no qualms about conducting armed patrols of his neighborhood (despite the fact that he had absolutely no authority of any kind to do so), and appeared to treat anyone he didn't know, no matter how young, with extreme suspicion and borderline hostility.

I have visited friends in gated communities and have lived in military base housing, and I can tell you right now that I have NEVER been treated as though I were a criminal pending an ability prove otherwise on demand. What you describe is not a "gated community mentality." It is a George Zimmerman mentality. Perfectly normal people may be vigilant and keep an eye on their neighbors' property, watch out for suspicious behavior, etc. What perfectly normal people DON'T do is get out of their car after calling in a "suspicious" person and follow that person (who he claims to have thought was possibly on drugs) in the dark and rain with a gun. Those actions indicate a mindset that is willing, nay, eager for a confrontation. Not only that, he was fully aware that he had the capability of meeting any confrontation with deadly force, and that appears to have given him no pause whatsoever.

 

[Emma Peel]

What Jo said on March 27 has some credit now that the picture from a phone was released the day of the hearing.

Imagine that.

 

[Just K]

So we know for a fact that GZ was "on his rounds" and not on his way to the store. Where is this information coming from?

Perhaps, the word "negating" was misinterpreted. The point here is that, his supporters make a point of dismissing any connection to GZ being in any NW capacity that evening. IMO, b/c when acting as NW he was trained on the subject that he was not supposed to "carry" a weapon or pursue anyone. He was meant to simply watch & report anything suspicious.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just read this article. In 2004 those units were selling for 250K. 40 empty units at the time of the shooting and more than half were renters out of 263 units.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece

The initial cost of a 1,400-square-foot townhome and the pass code to that front gate: $250,000. Today, post-boom, the price has dipped below $100,000. There are 263 units. Not exactly what I would call a luxury gated community.

This is exactly what I thought it was! I almost bought a condo a few years ago and the initial cost was 274,000.00 and thankfully I had a lawyer who looked over the paperwork for me and said "NO!!" The condo I would have bought sold three years later for 60,000.00.

A lot of apartments started selling as condos and then the housing crisis struck and they're right back to apartments.

 

[grandmaj]

Some units on the real estate page sold for as low as 82K.

 

[LinasK]

Perhaps, the word "negating" was misinterpreted. The point here is that, his supporters make a point of dismissing any connection to GZ being in any NW capacity that evening. IMO, b/c when acting as NW he was trained on the subject that he was not supposed to "carry" a weapon or pursue anyone. He was meant to simply watch & report anything suspicious.

Is this because of the liability of the HOA since they endorsed calling him as "Captain" and he was conducting his own armed patrols??? Can they be sued in Civil Court for wrongful death for allowing him/ negligence of not knowing he was doing this???

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm personally offened by the "gated community mentality?" Maybe there is a confusion between "Gated communities" and "Yacht Clubs?" I could understand having a certain mentality if you lived in a "Yacht Club", but not in a affordable neighborhood that just happens to have a gate?

MOO

 

[HiHater]

Thanks for this post. I'm looking forward to the links that will be provided by Ninety5rpm.

I'm eager to see the links as well.