17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #32

[Dr.Fessel]

It appears to me George might have just called the police on the guy because he was walking into the community.

 

[Adrienne37]

Yes but there has to be some timeline on SYG right? Or do they start through the process and then a hearing is requested before trial? Think of the money and time expended to prepare for a trial if the SYG is upheld in this case? Anyone know the particulars of when this hearing would be requested?

See if this helps clarify at least some of your questions grandmaj...

Nothing about the Trayvon Martin case prevents these procedures from being followed. Now that the State has decided to pursue charges, George Zimmerman, acting through his attorneys, may file a Motion for Declaration of Immunity and Dismissal. This will occur, if at all, once the parties are satisfied that they have sufficient discovery to conduct an evidentiary hearing. If the Motion succeeds, the case will be dismissed. If the Motion fails, the case will likely proceed to trial, where the application of self-defense principles under Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law will be decided by a jury.

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/stand_your_ground.html

 

[Just K]

I keep asking myself, "Why would GZ drive all the way across town to a Target to buy milk? The price difference, on Milk, between 7-11, the gas station and Target is negligible. With the price of gas being above $3.00 a gallon, in late February, and his vehicle being a truck/SUV/gas guzzler, it just seems even more ridiculous to say, "I was on my way to Target (Armed to the gills with my Semi-automatic 9MM and hollow points) to get a gallon of milk. http://www.target.com/p/Prairie-Far...cency&lnk=Rec|pdp|ClickCP|item_page.adjacency

http://www.ehow.com/about_4673703_eleven.html

 

[Karmady]

Can you provide a link, or any source, that says laws don't apply in gated communities?

Or any link that says gated communities have streets that aren't for public use (to include guests of residents)?Can you also provide me with something, anything, that would indicate George Zimmerman was acquainted with even half of the people who lived in those 260 units?

None of the witnesses who called 911 seemed to know who he was. So you're already down by 7.

Thanks in advance.

Re the public roads, I think it depends on the gated community. In mine, the roads are not maintained by the city and there are no posted speed limits. The residents put up "children at play" cones to remind people to slow down. If we want a speed bump, we would have to pay for it ourselves. Policy and Fire have a special key to enter.

Here's a link about one example:

http://www.desototimes.com/articles/2012/03/22/news/local/doc4f6a7379aeeee025494844.txt

 

[Adrienne37]

I keep asking myself, "Why would GZ drive all the way across town to a Target to buy milk? The price difference, on Milk, between 7-11, the gas station and Target is negligible. With the price of gas being above $3.00 a gallon, in late February, and his vehicle being a truck/SUV/gas guzzler, it just seems even more ridiculous to say, "I was on my way to Target (Armed to the gills with my Semi-automatic 9MM and hollow points) to get a gallon of milk. http://www.target.com/p/Prairie-Far...cency&lnk=Rec|pdp|ClickCP|item_page.adjacency

http://www.ehow.com/about_4673703_eleven.html

and for heaven's sake, don't forget your keychain flashlight and your 6 inch tactical flashlight. You never know when you're going to need them!



~jmo~

 

[LinasK]

I want to expand on this because it goes back to the point I made in my first post on this thread, answering why GZ ever left his vehicle.

You really have to understand the "gated community mentality" to get it. On a public street everyone has a right to be there. I can get on a plane, fly to any city, get in a rent a car, drive around, park, and walk down any street, and really nobody has any reason to suspect me.

But if I drive into a private gated community, it all changes. Completely. People expect to know others. If they don't recognize you, they look at how you look, what you're driving, what your'e wearing, to determine if you belong. And if they can't tell, they might confront you, or call security, just to make sure. This is practically unheard of in a public street context.

So I think that's why people have such a hard time understanding GZ's attitude and behavior. Why did he get out of the car? Why did he follow TM? The answer is: gated community mentality. Perfectly normal and legal.

I disagree. I am Neighborhood Watch in a non-gated community, and 1) I would call LE on someone who I didn't know in the neighborhood who was acting suspicious, or a neighbor who was acting crazy, fighting, or drunk. 2) I've been in gated communities. They don't automatically follow people they don't know, and 3) George's position as NW was only to call in LE, NOT to follow, and not to carry a weapon.

 

[AngelWings444]

Whew, caught up but missed most of thread # 31. Did a LE officer really take the picture of GZ's head that night or is it speculation? Thanks in advance.

 

[katydid23]

When I say " I am going out for milk" what I usually mean is ' milk, bread, eggs and cereal. " Imo, it is just shorthand for needing a few staples.

 

[Adrienne37]

Whew, caught up but missed most of thread # 31. Did a LE officer really take the picture of GZ's head that night or is it speculation? Thanks in advance.

According to his "friend" Joe Oliver in an interview that we found this morning that was posted back on March 27. He said it was an officer that took the photo with his Iphone.


~jmo~

 

[Just K]

Can you provide a link, or any source, that says laws don't apply in gated communities?

Or any link that says gated communities have streets that aren't for public use (to include guests of residents)?

Can you also provide me with something, anything, that would indicate George Zimmerman was acquainted with even half of the people who lived in those 260 units?

None of the witnesses who called 911 seemed to know who he was. So you're already down by 7.

Thanks in advance.

Re:BBM
One even described him as "the black guy is standing over" the one on the ground.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Let me offer you one possible scenario.

TM approaches GZ and after words are exchanged TM strikes GZ in the face sending him to the ground, with GZ laying on his back. TM then drops to his knees straddling GZ at the waist and continues to strike him in the face. This causes a broken nose, busted lip, and lacerations to the back of his head. GZ screams for help which is recorded on the 911 call and witnessed by John. TM is then worried that he will be caught by whomever hears the call for help and decided he needed to silence GZ and placed his hands over GZs mouth and nose. GZ no longer being able to yell for help, possibly suffocating, and wanting to stop the assault he was receiving, wiggled his way up far enough to pull his gun from his holster and fired one shot into TM.

TM, still straddling GM fell on top of him. GZ slid out from under TMs body leaving TM face down at the scene.

Three things:

1. If Martin had his hands over Zimmerman's nose and mouth right up until the gunshot as you suggest, then who is it that we hear screaming and begging for help in that background of all those 911 calls, right up until the moment the gun goes off, followed immediately by dead silence?

2. If, instead of pushing the body off of himself, Zimmerman slid out from under the body as you suggest, how did he manage not to smear any blood on himself? Did he also tuck the arms under the body, just for the sake of neatness?

3. Zimmerman told police that he didn’t realize Martin was seriously injured, and that's why he was found straddling him. But if he had to slide himself out from under the kid's dead weight, as you suggest, could he reasonably claim he didn't know the boy was seriously injured?

 

[Just K]

I disagree. I am Neighborhood Watch in a non-gated community, and 1) I would call LE on someone who I didn't know in the neighborhood who was acting suspicious, or a neighbor who was acting crazy, fighting, or drunk. 2) I've been in gated communities. They don't automatically follow people they don't know, and 3) George's position as NW was only to call in LE, NOT to follow, and not to carry a weapon.

And that is why he and his supporters are negating the fact that he was on his rounds and was headed across town for a gallon of milk.

 

[curl_in_progress]

Can you provide a link, or any source, that says laws don't apply in gated communities?

Or any link that says gated communities have streets that aren't for public use (to include guests of residents)?

Can you also provide me with something, anything, that would indicate George Zimmerman was acquainted with even half of the people who lived in those 260 units?

None of the witnesses who called 911 seemed to know who he was. So you're already down by 7.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for this post. I'm looking forward to the links that will be provided by Ninety5rpm.

 

[LinasK]

And that is why he and his supporters are negating the fact that he was on his rounds and was headed across town for a gallon of milk.

And I'd also like to know if it was a Target that even carried groceries. My local Target (a regular one) didn't carry groceries until a few months ago. Now the Target Greatland is a different story...

 

[jjenny]

So, I guess GZ will not be claiming the SYG defense before a judge and asking for the charges to be dropped. Looks like he wants to go before a jury where he most likely will claim self-defense. JMO

No it doesn't mean that at all. His lawyer didn't even get the discovery yet.

 

[csziggy]

I keep asking myself, "Why would GZ drive all the way across town to a Target to buy milk? The price difference, on Milk, between 7-11, the gas station and Target is negligible. With the price of gas being above $3.00 a gallon, in late February, and his vehicle being a truck/SUV/gas guzzler, it just seems even more ridiculous to say, "I was on my way to Target (Armed to the gills with my Semi-automatic 9MM and hollow points) to get a gallon of milk. http://www.target.com/p/Prairie-Far...cency&lnk=Rec|pdp|ClickCP|item_page.adjacency

http://www.ehow.com/about_4673703_eleven.html

The Target is not that far from the subdivision - about 1.2 miles while the 7-Eleven is about 0.8 mile. I think is a non-issue.

I'm using the address of the clubhouse - 1111 Retreat View Circle. The 7-Eleven is on Rinehart Road, Sanford, FL and the Target, WP Ball Boulevard, Sanford, FL.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[Just K]

And I'd also like to know if it was a Target that even carried groceries. My local Target (a regular one) didn't carry groceries until a few months ago. Now the Target Greatland is a different story...

Groceries are listed for the Sanford Super Target....
http://sites.target.com/site/en/spo...ingLong=-81.26802825927734&_requestid=2250744

 

[LolaMoon08]

I want to expand on this because it goes back to the point I made in my first post on this thread, answering why GZ ever left his vehicle.

You really have to understand the "gated community mentality" to get it. On a public street everyone has a right to be there. I can get on a plane, fly to any city, get in a rent a car, drive around, park, and walk down any street, and really nobody has any reason to suspect me.

But if I drive into a private gated community, it all changes. Completely. People expect to know others. If they don't recognize you, they look at how you look, what you're driving, what your'e wearing, to determine if you belong. And if they can't tell, they might confront you, or call security, just to make sure. This is practically unheard of in a public street context.

So I think that's why people have such a hard time understanding GZ's attitude and behavior. Why did he get out of the car? Why did he follow TM? The answer is: gated community mentality. Perfectly normal and legal.

I've lived in two gated communities for a total of 15 years and I have never, ever experienced this "gated community mentality? you speak of?

The community George lived in wasn't "that" nice. It has a Lake, a Club House, and apartments? Maybe I missed it, but does it even have tennis courts? Golf courses? Playgrounds? Bar-B-Q areas?

MOO

 

[AngelWings444]

I want to expand on this because it goes back to the point I made in my first post on this thread, answering why GZ ever left his vehicle.

You really have to understand the "gated community mentality" to get it. On a public street everyone has a right to be there. I can get on a plane, fly to any city, get in a rent a car, drive around, park, and walk down any street, and really nobody has any reason to suspect me.

But if I drive into a private gated community, it all changes. Completely. People expect to know others. If they don't recognize you, they look at how you look, what you're driving, what your'e wearing, to determine if you belong. And if they can't tell, they might confront you, or call security, just to make sure. This is practically unheard of in a public street context.

So I think that's why people have such a hard time understanding GZ's attitude and behavior. Why did he get out of the car? Why did he follow TM? The answer is: gated community mentality. Perfectly normal and legal.

Your post is simply not true based on my personal experience. Gated communities are not private, and nothing changes because there is a gate or not. Residents have an additional sense of safety with a gate, but that is about it. Some gated communities have guards, some just have a gate with a card, some leave the gates open during the days etc..they are all different but the same laws apply. Police, trash truck drivers, power companies and so forth, all have the code to the gate, friends have the code, family members have codes, extra cards and so on, and so on.

Where I live, the gated areas can be very large, you do not know all your "neighbors", what they drive etc..simply not true of all gated communities. In fact, most people in a gated community keep to themselves. There is not a gated community "mentality" with the exception that residents may feel a little safer because of the gate, when in fact, their houses are more vulnerable to robberies, as they are usually higher end houses.

GZ was a "renter", not a home owner. These weren't mansions. Maybe in GZ's mind, he was the authority, thought he had the right to chase down and question everyone, but he did not have that right. Period.

JMO, IMO and all that good stuff.

 

[RANCH]

And that is why he and his supporters are negating the fact that he was on his rounds and was headed across town for a gallon of milk.

So we know for a fact that GZ was "on his rounds" and not on his way to the store. Where is this information coming from?