17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #33

[Nova]

That was the case in the recent conviction of Andrew Gallo for the 3- 2nd degree murder charges . DA basically asked for 2nd degree or acquittal,IIRC in the drunk driving death of Adenhart and his friends. I always thought it was a risky strategy and LIO's did not have to be included if prosecution did not ask for them. Maybe it is a Cali thing?

I think the defense can also request a judge to add LIOs, arguing that they are supported by the evidence. But I think that's less common: if the defense doesn't believe the DA has met its burden on the higher count, why give the jury an option to convict for something else? But I guess there are cases where the defense feels the jury is going to convict a really unlikable defendant of something, so it's a calculated gamble to give jurors a lesser option.

Conventional wisdom holds that juries have a tendency to "split the difference" if you let them, so often one side or the other will oppose LIOs in order to push the jury toward the desired result. You're right that it's often a matter of strategy, at least on Law and Order. LOL.

Note: I'm not sure everyone realizes how hotly jury instructions are contested. But as someone who has had to type and retype them, I can attest that the instructions to the jury (including on matters such as LIOs) is often a result of fierce battling between opposing counsels under the supervision of the judge.

 

[Adrienne37]

Hmm, so it sounds to me like Zimmerman didn't tell his attorney until yesterday about the donations from the website. Wonder why? I certainly hope that's the case because I sure wouldn't want anyone accusing O'Mara of lying at the bail hearing when he said his client had limited funds.

Donations pour in to Trayvon Martin's killer..

Orlando lawyer Mark O'Mara told CNN's "AC360" that George Zimmerman told him Wednesday of the donations as they were trying to shut down his Internet presence to avoid concerns about possible impersonators.
"He asked me what to do with his PayPal accounts and I asked him what he was talking about," O'Mara told Anderson Cooper. "And he said those were the accounts that had the money from the website he had. And there was about 200, $204,000 that had come in to date."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html


~jmo~

 

[csziggy]

A documented lie:

DE LA RIONDA: So, were you not aware when he got arrested for a violent crime in Orange County?

S. ZIMMERMAN: I'm aware of that situation.

DE LA RIONDA: And did that not involve him striking or in some way battering a law enforcement officer?

S. ZIMMERMAN: No.

little bit later....

DE LA RIONDA: He admitted that he struck a police officer when the police officer told him to abide by his commands?

S. ZIMMERMAN: The police officer didn't identify himself.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.01.html

She also lied about not seeing him angry in 5 years.

JMO MOO

Where my husband works part of the application for employment policy is a little quiz. One of the questions is, "Have you ever lied to your parents?" If the applicant answers "No" they are automatically eliminated from being considered for employment.

I think asking if your spouse has ever been angry fits in the same category. We all have times we are angry about something. To make a blanket statement as Mrs. GZ did is absurd. Either GZ is emotionally unlike any normal human being I have ever met or she has some reason to cover up what should be a normal emotion from her husband.

I feel sorry for Mrs. GZ - she is in an impossible situation especially if she really loves the man.

IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[annalia]

I would be willing to bet that the NRA gave a sizable chunk of money to George Zimmerman.

I think you would probably win that bet.

I don't begrudge any defendant their right to have a defense fund, but there are obviously political agendas in this case, people with their own self interests who want a certain outcome that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with justice in the shooting of a 17 year old.

JMHO

 

[Just K]

Hmm, so it sounds to me like Zimmerman didn't tell his attorney until yesterday about the donations from the website. Wonder why? I certainly hope that's the case because I sure wouldn't want anyone accusing O'Mara of lying at the bail hearing when he said his client had limited funds.

Donations pour in to Trayvon Martin's killer..

Orlando lawyer Mark O'Mara told CNN's "AC360" that George Zimmerman told him Wednesday of the donations as they were trying to shut down his Internet presence to avoid concerns about possible impersonators.
"He asked me what to do with his PayPal accounts and I asked him what he was talking about," O'Mara told Anderson Cooper. "And he said those were the accounts that had the money from the website he had. And there was about 200, $204,000 that had come in to date."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html


~jmo~

OMG!!!! The prosecution hammered away for details on this and O'Mara is acting like this is news to him. All I can say is, "Well, KMA!!!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Hmm, so it sounds to me like Zimmerman didn't tell his attorney until yesterday about the donations from the website. Wonder why? I certainly hope that's the case because I sure wouldn't want anyone accusing O'Mara of lying at the bail hearing when he said his client had limited funds.

Donations pour in to Trayvon Martin's killer..

Orlando lawyer Mark O'Mara told CNN's "AC360" that George Zimmerman told him Wednesday of the donations as they were trying to shut down his Internet presence to avoid concerns about possible impersonators.
"He asked me what to do with his PayPal accounts and I asked him what he was talking about," O'Mara told Anderson Cooper. "And he said those were the accounts that had the money from the website he had. And there was about 200, $204,000 that had come in to date."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/26/justice/florida-zimmerman-money/index.html


~jmo~

Not a very good lawyer in my opinion if he made a deal with Zimmerman to represent him and knew nothing about the Paypal account.

 

[Nova]

"We only know from his account that the body was found between two buildings"? That's what you read from the report?

Obviously you can consider or not consider this as the body location. It's simply what I thought the the SPD and SFD say.

As to your being concerned with his term of "canvasing the area", let me remind you of two things. According to SPD Event Report #20120571656 for 2/26/2012, Officer Smith arrived on scene at 19:17:11 or 7:17:11 pm. He parked his squad car in front of 2821 Retreat View, which is +/- 150' from where I'm showing the body.

I don't know either what he means by "canvas" the area, but something we do know is that according to the same ER, Officer Ayala arrived 2 minutes and 41 seconds later at 19:19:52 or 7:19:52 pm. Since both Officer Smith and Officer Ayala's narratives say Zimmerman was secured when Ayala arrived, that means in 2 minutes and 41 seconds, Officer Smith not only completed his ill defined "canvas" of the area, but he secured the suspect and removed his gun as well.

How long did it take to secure Zimmerman? I don't know, but it surely didn't leave much time for any lengthy walk or "canvas".

If the body wasn't more accessible off of Retreat View, why was Officer Smith AND SFD Unit #38 directed to that street and address? If the body was anywhere near "John's" unit or the intersection of the sidewalks, why wouldn't all units have been directed to respond to Twin Trees at the "cut through" where GZ's truck was parked?

I don't know, CP. Those are great questions.

I do think an officer could walk 150' and disarm GZ (who wasn't resisting) in 2 and a half minutes.

But I hope you're right and the incident occurred far from the crosswalk, because, as I said, that will show GZ wasn't just innocently returning to his car.

 

[Adrienne37]

It could be said that he was committing perjury himself couldn't it?


~jmo~

 

[Just K]

It could be said that he was committing perjury himself couldn't it.


~jmo~

Time will tell. My guess, when he took on the case he told GZ that he did not want to know the details of anything but the actual incident. Then he could go into court with a clear conscience. ALL IMO.

 

[LambChop]

I don't know, CP. Those are great questions.

I do think an officer could walk 150' and disarm GZ (who wasn't resisting) in 2 and a half minutes.

But I hope you're right and the incident occurred far from the crosswalk, because, as I said, that will show GZ wasn't just innocently returning to his car.

I believe that is what Gilbreath meant when he said something to the effect that GZ's statement was inconsistent with where TM's body was found. Can't remember his exact words but that was what I understood. The body was not where it should have been when they compared it to GZ's original statement to the detectives. jmo

 

[suzihawk]

It could be said that he was committing perjury himself couldn't it.


~jmo~

I dunno. :waitasec: Maybe we'll be lucky enough to get Alan Dershowitz's opinion on the matter?

 

[LambChop]

OMG!!!! The prosecution hammered away for details on this and O'Mara is acting like this is news to him. All I can say is, "Well, KMA!!!

Obviously he does not watch NG. lol

 

[annalia]

It could be said that he was committing perjury himself couldn't it?


~jmo~

I don't know, but I doubt it. He also said this in the article,

O'Mara had said earlier this month that he believed Zimmerman had no money. "I think he's indigent for costs," he said, adding that Zimmerman's relatives had few assets.

Zimmerman, 28, was released Monday on $150,000 bail, 10% of which his family put up to secure his release. He is accused of second-degree murder in the February 26 death of Martin, who was African-American. Critics have accused him of racially profiling Martin and unjustly killing him. He has said he shot in self-defense.

Asked whether knowledge of the money might have made a difference to Judge Kenneth Lester Jr., who presided at Zimmerman's bond hearing, O'Mara said, "It might have."

O'Mara continued, "I'm certainly going to disclose it to the court tomorrow -- coincidentally, we have a hearing."

He said he was prepared to "deal with any fallout," but predicted Lester would not feel misled. "I told him what I knew at the time, which was exactly what I was aware of."

He has his tracks covered it seems, kind of reminds me of when he said, Gee I didn't know that the family didn't want to hear the apology at the bond hearing. ( paraphrasing with a little sarcasm thrown in )

I really don't know how GZ's wife didn't know how much money was in there, was she being coy, it wasn't an outright lie to say she didn't know if she didn't have the exact dollar amount?
JMHO

 

[jaded cat]

It's very clear to me,the jacket in this photo is red as well.

Agreed. I see the red collar and the jacket he was wearing at the SPD was red with grey shoulders and sleeves. I'd bet, oh at least lunch, that's the same jacket from beginning to end.

 

[uvamerica]

Where my husband works part of the application for employment policy is a little quiz. One of the questions is, "Have you ever lied to your parents?" If the applicant answers "No" they are automatically eliminated from being considered for employment.

I think asking if your spouse has ever been angry fits in the same category. We all have times we are angry about something. To make a blanket statement as Mrs. GZ did is absurd. Either GZ is emotionally unlike any normal human being I have ever met or she has some reason to cover up what should be a normal emotion from her husband.

I feel sorry for Mrs. GZ - she is in an impossible situation especially if she really loves the man.

IMO, JMO, etc.

That question to Mrs. Zimmerman made me think that the state may have evidence that states otherwise. IMO

 

[Adrienne37]

Sanford city manager admits pushing police chief to quit over Trayvon Martin case...

SANFORD, Fla. -- City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. acknowledges that he put pressure last week on Police Chief Bill Lee to step down over the Trayvon Martin case, though he stopped short of saying whether he threatened to fire Lee.


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...e-chief-to-quit-over-trayvon-martin-case?lite

 

[highflyer]

It also just happens to be the 20th anniversary of the riots associated with the Rodney King beating.

and

"The rally will also remember Oscar Grant, who was beat to death by a former BART officer in 2008; Earl Anthony Dunn, a 32-year-old U.S. postal worker from Compton, who was killed in Boyle Heights March 7, 2012, after an unlicensed driver struck him; and Kendrec McDade, 19, whose shooting March 24 by Pasadena police drew parallels to the Martin shooting."

I wish I could be there.

I'm for civil rights and if some good can come out of this, please let it be, but commemorating riots doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Just K]

I don't know, but I doubt it. He also said this in the article,
Quote:
O'Mara had said earlier this month that he believed Zimmerman had no money. "I think he's indigent for costs," he said, adding that Zimmerman's relatives had few assets.

Zimmerman, 28, was released Monday on $150,000 bail, 10% of which his family put up to secure his release. He is accused of second-degree murder in the February 26 death of Martin, who was African-American. Critics have accused him of racially profiling Martin and unjustly killing him. He has said he shot in self-defense.

Asked whether knowledge of the money might have made a difference to Judge Kenneth Lester Jr., who presided at Zimmerman's bond hearing, O'Mara said, "It might have."

O'Mara continued, "I'm certainly going to disclose it to the court tomorrow -- coincidentally, we have a hearing."

He said he was prepared to "deal with any fallout," but predicted Lester would not feel misled. "I told him what I knew at the time, which was exactly what I was aware of."


He has his tracks covered it seems, kind of reminds me of when he said, Gee I didn't know that the family didn't want to hear the apology at the bond hearing.

JMHO

Or letting GF's name slip...

It seems to be all about gamesmanship, doesn't it?

 

[Adrienne37]

George Zimmerman: Attorney may not use Stand Your Ground defense....

"It's really too early to say until we see the facts, once we see the evidence, and we can come up with an idea as to what defense applies to it. Stand your ground, traditional self defense, We just don't know yet," said Mark O'Mara.

http://www.baynews9.com/content/new...icles/cfn/2012/4/26/george_zimmerman_att.html

 

[elementary]

Not a very good lawyer in my opinion if he made a deal with Zimmerman to represent him and knew nothing about the Paypal account.

Does this mean that GZ withheld that info from his lawyer while appealing for a low bond?