18 y/o Black male shot dead by Police in St Louis suburb of Berkeley MO

[RANCH]

Or run/drive away, as was suggested in the mike brown shooting.

SMH

I've read suggestions that LE officers should take all sorts of non lethal actions when confronted with a lethal adversary. I don't agree with most of them.

When someone brandishes a gun at a LE officer they can expect that the officer will respond with deadly force.

If a suspect decides to engage in physical combat with an officer, I wouldn't expect the officer would run away. The officer should use superior force to bring the suspect into custody. JMO.

 

[CHERIE.T]

The police neither owe you or others an explanation. No different than in any crime in NORTH AMERICA. A special investigation unit collects all evidence in a police involved shooting, presents their findings and it goes thru due process, but you know that.

You're from Canada. The SIU, specifically, in Toronto does exactly the same process, but you know that too. The TPS in Toronto when they have a shooting also won't speak to CBC, Toronto STAR, etc. or release all evidence BECAUSE the SIU is handling the investigation, not the police but you know that.

Besides, who cares whether his camera(s) were on or not? I don't. His Patrol car lightbar wasn't on either. Who cares? I don't.
None of that matters. It had no bearing on a 's assault with a deadly weapon AS CAUGHT ON SOMEONE ELSE'S CAMERAS. If it had been filmed by the cop AND his dashcam it would be a conspiracy that the po po doctored the video.

If it had been a white he would be just as dead and none of the peripheral body cam/dash cameras, etc. would have made a difference either.

Your previous post indicate a severe need to say something. Your posts continue to ask posters here "to peel back the onion." As if there exist some profound epiphany that someone in Toronto has discovered but that we in the US can't.

The problem is regardless of white or black , if you play stupid games with the police you're going to win stupid prizes. Obey the laws of the land, don't point guns at cops and enjoy life eh?

Bravo :gthanks:

 

[Snoods]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone will say that the officer should have told the to drop the gun before he shot him. Or shoot him in the leg or some other ridiculous thing.

I'm disappointed in how LE handled this situation. Surely he could have tried to dodge a bullet? We don't even know for sure that was trying to shoot the policeman! Have you even considered the possibility that was trying to shoot a tin can behind him?

LE could have deescalated the situation by jumping in his patrol car and speeding away as fast as he could at the first sign of danger. I'm sure felt violated having a policeman glance in his direction just because he pulled a gun on him!

 

[Sonya610]

They could record like they do on commercial airliner black boxes where the last few hours of information is saved. If something happens of importance, the last part usually tells the story. JMO.

Difference is no one needs the black box recordings IF the plane lands safely, no one will decide weeks or months later that the recording is required for evidence (unless the pilots were sexually harassing each other and one filed a lawsuit...lol)

Cops can be sued weeks or months later. I sell surveillance systems for businesses, some owners (like restaurant owners) want to keep THREE YEARS worth of data to prevent against lawsuits later (keeping 3 months is doable, but a year or two becomes very very expensive and is cost prohibitive for most all business owners and municipalities).

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I'm not sure about that and there's research to back up blacks are more likely to die in encounters with LE than whites. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447171/ and this study found blacks were 21 times more likely to be shot by police than whites This is what the protesters are looking at. They don't think these young men are saints. They think if they were white they'd still be breathing.

The fact that this officer had two cameras that weren't on just makes the situation worse. I think the dashcam needs to be recording whenever the car is running, not just when the lights are on.

One thing all of these events makes clear is that there needs to be a national database of people who are killed as a result of encounters with police.

Grey---there is a database of what you're looking for. There is a lot of research out there. There are peeps here that are posting good info & links---some here are professionals within the realm of the topic. Please don't assume that if you personally don't know the info, that probably no one else does. That is a common fallacy.

Here's a little hint when you're pulling through your future research: review "resisting arrest rates" & "fleeing from LE after committing a crime"----those variables are shocking when looking at the differences.
Someone forgot to give "lil Johnny" the table-talk on what to do once LE is trying to arrest you, iykwim? That is just one variable that you may want to start studying.

Another thing you can find a lot of info about is what is the price society pays per each criminal. Astounding! Taxpayers are dolling out huge $$$ for career criminals. Defense attorneys, appeals, necessary LE equipment (technology needs), prisons w/food, books, tv, clothing, medical attention, basically the entire criminal justice system----the money comes from somewhere & that somewhere is mostly the hard-working, non-criminal taxpayer. And they are becoming aware of the staggering costs that the non-productive members of our society is imposing upon them! Are they starting to lose patience? You betcha'.

There's so many other realms within our society that the money could be put to better use. Having to shell out huge costs on career criminals is not one of them.

Moo

 

[Trino]

Expelled from school? Wonder what that was all about... Expelled is definitely more serious than suspended.

"Antonio’s mother later told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that her son was expelled from school, but was trying to gain employment via Jobs Corps, a US program offering free-of-charge education and vocational training to young people."

http://rt.com/news/217243-black-man-ferguson-police/

 

[Sonya610]

Here's a little hint when you're pulling through your future research: review "resisting arrest rates" & "fleeing from LE after committing a crime"----those variables are shocking when looking at the differences.

The differences in murder rates is VERY shocking. Another misconception is that some people get longer sentences for the same crime when compared to others of different ethnicities. The one factor that is always left out when creating those statistics is PRIOR history! A first time offender will usually get a lighter sentence, a habitual offender is more likely to get a longer sentence.

On that note if this was arrested for robbery back in May why was he running loose????

 

[oh_gal]

I'm disappointed in how LE handled this situation. Surely he could have tried to dodge a bullet? We don't even know for sure that was trying to shoot the policeman! Have you even considered the possibility that was trying to shoot a tin can behind him?

LE could have deescalated the situation by jumping in his patrol car and speeding away as fast as he could at the first sign of danger. I'm sure felt violated having a policeman glance in his direction just because he pulled a gun on him!

(above, b/u by me)
:thud:

I got no words.

 

[Trident]

(above, b/u by me)
:thud:

I got no words.

Hit the sarcasm button, or maybe I should hit the one that says, "tongue in cheek"? Or maybe I should mind my own business?

 

[greycoupon]

Grey---there is a database of what you're looking for. There is a lot of research out there. There are peeps here that are posting good info & links---some here are professionals within the realm of the topic. Please don't assume that if you personally don't know the info, that probably no one else does. That is a common fallacy.

Let me rephrase. A federal database where shootings are actually reported.

Do you mean the FBI Supplemental Homicide report? Which per the WSJ is missing a lot of cases and doesn't count cases where the person lived. That's incomplete information.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Let me rephrase. A federal database where shootings are actually reported.

Do you mean the FBI Supplemental Homicide report? Which per the WSJ is missing a lot of cases and doesn't count cases where the person lived. That's incomplete information.

I would start the research first by looking at the statistics from FBI.gov
The stats are quite interesting.
Solutions are needed after that but maybe there really isn't any? Who knows?

Then there's a slew of other databases from there for research if one chooses.

Moo

 

[Sonya610]

Wow!

If anyone has not seen the 3rd camera surveillance vid it is online (store footage), it must have been released by the PD along with the other vid. It shows the full scene, the cop freaking FLIES back 20-30 feet and lands on his back, he then takes off in pursuit after someone else. It explains how the officer managed to shoot the tire of his own car.

Just search his name and 3rd camera and it comes up on multiple sites.

 

[Confusion]

I think there is something that might help some without LE or the criminals changing their behaviors much. What I don't understand is why MSM, or even smaller "news" sites, make a point of mentioning the race of either the officer or the dead person before anything has been investigated. I believe that seeing headlines saying, "Black Child/Man/Woman Killed By White Cop!" automatically sets people off much more than one that says, "Man/Woman/Child Shot By Cop in Line of Duty" would. I believe that all shootings by LE are investigated to see if they were justified or not; if there is a possibility that racism played a part in the death, then it would be appropriate to mention the races. It's not because I think the races should be hidden (or lied about), but that I don't think race should make a difference if the shooting is justified (or even if it's not, the shooter should be charged then no matter who the victim is.)

MOO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I saw CCTV where you can clearly see Antonio Martin hold the gun up and straight at the officer, so I can't see how anyone could fault the officer for shooting him, he clearly had no choice, it's practically suicide by cop.

 

[oh_gal]

Hit the sarcasm button, or maybe I should hit the one that says, "tongue in cheek"? Or maybe I should mind my own business?

I guess I should have prefaced my reply with a disclaimer:
The kids got me up at 4:48 am to see what Santa had brought. I was operating on less than optimal conditions... :blush:

 

[leah]

It almost looked like an ambush, do they know the name of the boy who ran off?

 

[Sonya610]

It almost looked like an ambush, do they know the name of the boy who ran off?

The cops were called due to shoplifting....and the two individuals stood right out side of the store's front doors and waited, and then appeared to approach the police car.

I think you maybe right!

If it was an ambush I can see why it wouldn't be publicized as such.

 

[Solitaryone]

The cops were called due to shoplifting....and the two individuals stood right out side of the store's front doors and waited, and then appeared to approach the police car.

I think you maybe right!

If it was an ambush I can see why it wouldn't be publicized as such.

I think it was an ambush. These two could have been gone by the time the police officer showed up, but they stood outside waiting for something. Then walked toward the police car. Yup, I think they planned to shoot the cop before he showed up. Does anyone know if the other guy has been caught yet? He ran back inside the store, he shouldn't be too hard to identify.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Here is a vid with multiple views and combines all the CCTV we have seen .. at 1:55 you can clearly see Martin hold up his gun to shoot.

[video=youtube;Zd4Z7jqOxQI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd4Z7jqOxQI[/video]

 

[leah]

The entire situation looked strange, I thought maybe the boys were waiting for the girls and baby, but didn't seem very thrilled about them being there. AM was lagging behind...