2008.06.16 James T. says he saw Caylee alive around Noon #1

[Woe.be.gone]

Well, the fact that he thought about it also makes me think he had been given an extra large dose of KC's overtly sexual charm attempts. In addition to trawling malls to get a shopper high, I think she did the same thing with guys. Member that poor kid she spent all day with before she picked up Tony at the airport? She had him thinking they could be an item. I think she LOVED to manipulate men into thinking there might be something "special" there, and never missed an opportunity to practice. Of course, it didn't work as well when she had Caylee with her - some people might actually pay more attention to a child.

I like this guy cuz he is full of warts and not all that slick. We've taken a couple of badly phrased sentences, probably made in summation after several verbal interviews, and turned this guy into a perv. Frankly I'm more worried about the slick witness types in PowerPoint presentation mode. Let's face it, I doubt any of us would be all that impressed with men who found her wildly attractive or interesting - they don't strike me as all that street smart if they couldn't see what a hot mess she was. And most women are not clouded by testosterone. I'm just hoping his story has been vetted enough that they might be able to use him - even if he is an idiot horndog - to narrow the window of time on the 16th.

Men being men and all - all dogs - hee! - still, we know this guy is in his forties and KC was 22 then? Yes, no matter what she said/did, wishful thinking on his part if you ask me (unless she was selling it). Fantasylandville and too much Hollywood!

 

[BondJamesBond]

FWIW...here's the post (*warning* subliminal) w/ the pic of the front door (Caylee pushed open herself) to Techbay.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4225790&postcount=274"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Witness says he saw Caylee alive around noon on 06.16.08[/ame]

 

[Chiquita71]

Ripley, if you have a set of balls for sale, can I buy them? :woohoo:

Thank you.

Quote Respect Woe.be.gone

I just wanted to weigh in and say I don't have enough information to have a feeling or opinion on this subject. That's why I'm not saying anything. I haven't even read the doc for myself. Or finished this thread...

There has to be two sides while we "find out" I am glad for all the opinions being expressed here. This is super new info...You are all great. Ripley its all cool with me, I appreciate your passion for truth. Everyone here is cool with me. :twocents:

:cow:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

You guys are brutal. Men & women are wired differently. Rewatch Billy Crystal explaining this to Meg Ryan in "Harry met Sally". He explains it pretty succinctly.

I like cecybeans description of, "full of warts" for JT, and keying off of, "some badly phrased sentences" to draw character conclusions. IMHO, JT's not filtering out anything in his statement. I call it candor...and appreciate it for what it is.

Also hafta remark about bein', "more worried about the slick witness typics in Powerpoint presentation mode." And to tie the two points together - IRL I'd pretty squarely fall in the PowerPoint crowd...and I'm just filtering out my observations 'bout a woman being attractive in my day-to-day interactions. I can't stay employed if I say what I'm thinking on the subject - either to or about the opposite sex...it would be immediately career limiting & would be immediatley job ending in most cases. So...I learned to adapt, evolve...shut up and keep my thoughts to myself...lest I suffer the same treatment leveled against JT here in our example on WS. Call it civility...decency...sure. But don't kid yourself to think that just 'cause a man's not making these comments out loud that they're not mixed into his thoughts.

JT just didn't have his filters turned on when he wrote his statement. And, IMHO, considering the import of the situation, I'd rather get his raw thoughts & observations on the events. It helps me undertand his account better. And it seems to me he stopped far short of being crude. :twocents:

Do you think it would be rude of me to ask JT politely to loose the sombrero?

You're cracking me up Bond - plus, I watched all of those videos - Pat and Mike? - yesterday. Some were hilarious and some oh-so-bad imo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Quote Respect Woe.be.gone

I just wanted to weigh in and say I don't have enough information to have a feeling or opinion on this subject. That's why I'm not saying anything. I haven't even read the doc for myself. Or finished this thread...

There has to be two sides while we "find out" I am glad for all the opinions being expressed here. This is super new info...You are all great. Ripley its all cool with me, I appreciate your passion for truth. Everyone here is cool with me. :twocents:

:cow:

Chiquita71, please forgive my crudity. I was in some kind of mood yesterday and my raw side came out. :blushing:

:blowkiss:

 

[BondJamesBond]

'nuff social commentary...back to sleuthin'...

The street-level view on Google Maps is dated. Looks like Techbay is in what was, at least at one time if not still, called Parker Plaza.

On the chance that the Techbay stop was spontaneous after visiting another store. What other stores are in Parker Plaza now (or circa June'08)? :waitasec: Looks like a car lot across the street.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

You guys are brutal. Men & women are wired differently. Rewatch Billy Crystal explaining this to Meg Ryan in "Harry met Sally". He explains it pretty succinctly.

I like cecybeans description of, "full of warts" for JT, and keying off of, "some badly phrased sentences" to draw character conclusions. IMHO, JT's not filtering out anything in his statement. I call it candor...and appreciate it for what it is.

Also hafta remark about bein', "more worried about the slick witness typics in Powerpoint presentation mode." And to tie the two points together - IRL I'd pretty squarely fall in the PowerPoint crowd...and I'm just filtering out my observations 'bout a woman being attractive in my day-to-day interactions. I can't stay employed if I say what I'm thinking on the subject - either to or about the opposite sex...it would be immediately career limiting & would be immediatley job ending in most cases. So...I learned to adapt, evolve...shut up and keep my thoughts to myself...lest I suffer the same treatment leveled against JT here in our example on WS. Call it civility...decency...sure. But don't kid yourself to think that just 'cause a man's not making these comments out loud that they're not mixed into his thoughts.

JT just didn't have his filters turned on when he wrote his statement. And, IMHO, considering the import of the situation, I'd rather get his raw thoughts & observations on the events. It helps me undertand his account better. And it seems to me he stopped far short of being crude. :twocents:

So very interesting - women like to stay in denial I guess - even though we know this to be true in our heart of hearts so,

do we play it up or play it down? We're darned if we do and darned if we don't. Play it down and you end up the good wife at home whilst your husband is enjoying looking at the other played up one's out there on the market so-to-speak.

Maybe this is a good topic for the basement - it fascinates me really.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Another dated view of Parker Plaza here: http://www.costar.com/costarconnect/MasterPage/main.aspx?SiteID=20327,43679&LogRedirect=1

• Travel /Cruises business (reverse side of sign @ top)
• Marhsall Mortgage Company
• Laser Xtend
• Hair Den
• VersaTILE Arts (reverse side of sign)...maybe a craft/tile store?
• Adorable Poodle dog grooming

 

[Chiquita71]

Chiquita71, please forgive my crudity. I was in some kind of mood yesterday and my raw side came out. :blushing:

:blowkiss:

Pua-shaw(some folk say "shucks")...Woe.be.gone

I am always worried "that I offend"-not that I am offended. :angel:

I have read most of this thread but have not understood(my fault, that): have we found that the pings do or do not support this sighting by JT?

And fwiw: if you have written bad checks in certain stores, you might not want to go to those stores. or, if you know you are going to write a bad check then you also might not want to go to a store you usually go to.

I still have no opinion on this information, just jumping into the sleuthing. "Arguments" from both sides have me going each way, right now. I was stuck that he was on the witness list till a poster said that does not mean he will be called. Like so many things in this case...mysterious and confusing. This is my first case to ever follow in "real time"...are all or some or more cases like this one?

...jmo...I:dance:WS

 

[Woe.be.gone]

FWIW...here's the post (*warning* subliminal) w/ the pic of the front door (Caylee pushed open herself) to Techbay.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Witness says he saw Caylee alive around noon on 06.16.08

I get what you're saying about the door mix up as he says he remembers that happening at his store and then later again at Walmart unless that's the way KC always walked when she was only with Caylee, that is, letting Caylee lag behind - so sad. Moms usually are more in tune with and in protection mode over a two/three year old - ask me about older boys and you'll hear all kinds of tactics I tried to get cooperation that might have looked strange from the outside looking in but . . . . even my two year old boy got almost 100 percent attention when we were out and about .... which is the only reason he is alive today. Think road racing, motorboat, fearless, curious, zoom boy, climber, hopper, runner, hider, all around leaper and bounder - how can I challenge Momma today - energy bunny nonstop trickster and spontaneous combustion fellow.

I am a little confused as to why he wanted her to come back to his store though - business or pleasure - my guess would be for both.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Pua-shaw(some folk say "shucks")...Woe.be.gone

I am always worried "that I offend"-not that I am offended. :angel:

I have read most of this thread but have not understood(my fault, that): have we found that the pings do or do not support this sighting by JT?

And fwiw: if you have written bad checks in certain stores, you might not want to go to those stores. or, if you know you are going to write a bad check then you also might not want to go to a store you usually go to.

I still have no opinion on this information, just jumping into the sleuthing. "Arguments" from both sides have me going each way, right now. I was stuck that he was on the witness list till a poster said that does not mean he will be called. Like so many things in this case...mysterious and confusing. This is my first case to ever follow in "real time"...are all or some or more cases like this one?

...jmo...I:dance:WS

Tis my first case too. I've heard people say that this is the strangest case they've ever followed. It's hard to imagine that it's not - but we now know that Scott P. for instance lied through his teeth, was an all American nice guy seeming fellow but a cold blooded killer. It's so difficult for me to fathom any of these types of people. As scary/bad as it is, I think they should teach a course in H.S. about the behavior of Sociopaths to make people aware and to make Sociopaths aware that we're aware. Maybe the Sociopath doesn't even know that that's what they are - is that possible do you think?

 

[Valhall]

FWIW...here's the post (*warning* subliminal) w/ the pic of the front door (Caylee pushed open herself) to Techbay.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Witness says he saw Caylee alive around noon on 06.16.08

He alleges that Caylee opened the doors herself at WalMart...not at Techbay.

 

[whiteangora]

He alleges that Caylee opened the doors herself at WalMart...not at Techbay.

That's correct, but he also said "they walked out of his store separately".

 

[whiteangora]

I'd just like to add that I'm looking forward to seeing this witness on the stand at trial. I think he was extremely observant and insightful and he will be a great help to the State demonstrating how the "mother of the year" treated her child when nobody important was around to impress.

 

[Valhall]

That's correct, but he also said "they walked out of his store separately".

Okay? He apparently was walking with Caylee or he wouldn't be talking to her, right?

I mean how much are we going to change this guy's statement before we have to be the ones that get on the stand instead of him? We've changed the dates he states, we've changed the locations things happened as he stated them. Why don't we just pitch the whole thing out and re-write it the way we want it.

I do not believe that a person can get mixed up in their head (not when they give the specificity and minute detail this guy is giving) the two extremely different scenarios of 1. walking into a WalMart and MEETING Caylee as she is coming out of a WalMart door, with 2. being in your own store, while you are talking to her and she is LEAVING.

Serious - you guys are the one thinking this is so important. If it's that important why are you all insisting on changing almost everything about it!

 

[Valhall]

So if we take this guy's statement at face value instead of re-writing it to suit any of our own theories, we have him around noon seeing KC and Caylee at the Casselberry Walmart.

From the timeline:

http://70.32.85.110/app/viewer.php?uid=line_ea980240a9422d8762f92b3b657a62aa

pings have KC at/near the Anthony home until 11:52 a.m. pings then have her at/near the Anthony home again at 12:53 p.m.

So it's approximately a 23 minute drive from the Anthony home to the Casselberry Walmart. That's 46 minutes round-trip. Which leaves 15 minutes to park, walk in, do whatever, walk out to car, get Caylee back in carseat, etc.

All to go to a Walmart we have no reason to think KC frequented and for which she would have had to have passed her favorite stores (Target), CVS, etc.

There's not really all that much at a Walmart 13 miles away that you couldn't get at a Target (9 miles) or Walgreens (7 miles), Costco (10 miles), etc.

This 1 hour time frame is the only available for her to be at Walmart on the 16th (around noon).

 

[gitana1]

Makes you wonder if she put her in the trunk as punishment when leaving there or if things escalated on the way home and that's when she either beat her, taped her mouth shut, or anything. Poor Caylee.

I think this behavior was probably common when it came to casey's parenting skills. She just hid her true feelings around her family and friends but maybe was more obvious about her dislike for the child when no one she knew was around.
I don't think she beat Caylee to death. I don't think anything in particular set casey off that day. I think she planned the destruction of her child for months, hence the computer searches for missing kids, chloroform, breaking necks, etc., in March, 2008. casey decided to finally do it after a cumulation of events, such as her boyfriend not welcoming Caylee to spend the night and saying he only wanted boys, not girls, her mother becoming more suspicious of casey's employment status and refusing to babysit as much on nights, telling casey insetad thnat she needs to get a job and watch her own child, casey's friends getting to party whenever they wanted to and go on cool trips while casey had to sit home, Caylee getting old enough to articulate where she went with mom and finally, casey being caught stealing from family, causing a huge fight between her and CA on Father's Day. All of this made the moment "right" for casey to go through with a plan she had in the works for months.
I think in casey's mind, her mom would not come down on her so hard and casey would not have to steal so much if Caylee were not around because then, there would be no,"You need to take care of your own daughter, your "mistake". You are bad mother. You need to be repsonible and get a job." casey had to come up with material goods to prove she was working and get her mom of her back. She also linked these admonisions with Caylee because if Caylee was not around, casey thought CA would have no reason to pester casey for being "irresponsible" and not working. Also, she might be given a lot more freedom and allowed to sit around not working if she was seen as the grieving mom of a missing kid.
No, I don't think Caylee's murder was a result of a mom snapping and suddenly killing her kid. casey is a cold, sinister, pre-meditated murderer of her own, beautiful little girl. The one who was taking her place as the princess of the family and the one who, by her very existence, was relegating casey to Cinderella status in her very own home. Killing Caylee would thus allow the rest of the Cinderella story to occur - the evil stepsisters and stepmother would be rendered irrelevant and casey would be free in a lovely, fairy tale world and finally get her prince.

 

[mommaearth]

So if we take this guy's statement at face value instead of re-writing it to suit any of our own theories, we have him around noon seeing KC and Caylee at the Casselberry Walmart.

From the timeline:

http://70.32.85.110/app/viewer.php?uid=line_ea980240a9422d8762f92b3b657a62aa

pings have KC at/near the Anthony home until 11:52 a.m. pings then have her at/near the Anthony home again at 12:53 p.m.

So it's approximately a 23 minute drive from the Anthony home to the Casselberry Walmart. That's 46 minutes round-trip. Which leaves 15 minutes to park, walk in, do whatever, walk out to car, get Caylee back in carseat, etc.

All to go to a Walmart we have no reason to think KC frequented and for which she would have had to have passed her favorite stores (Target), CVS, etc.

There's not really all that much at a Walmart 13 miles away that you couldn't get at a Target (9 miles) or Walgreens (7 miles), Costco (10 miles), etc.

This 1 hour time frame is the only available for her to be at Walmart on the 16th (around noon).

I totally agree with this. Pings do not show her at this walmart this day. LE has the ping maps so detailed the have it down to her sleep/wake times etc. They know for sure if she was at walmart that day. IMO they may have the guy as a witness but only to sit up on stand and say what a lousy mother she was because everyone else claims she was good with Caylee.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Okay? He apparently was walking with Caylee or he wouldn't be talking to her, right?

I mean how much are we going to change this guy's statement before we have to be the ones that get on the stand instead of him? We've changed the dates he states, we've changed the locations things happened as he stated them. Why don't we just pitch the whole thing out and re-write it the way we want it.

I do not believe that a person can get mixed up in their head (not when they give the specificity and minute detail this guy is giving) the two extremely different scenarios of 1. walking into a WalMart and MEETING Caylee as she is coming out of a WalMart door, with 2. being in your own store, while you are talking to her and she is LEAVING.

Serious - you guys are the one thinking this is so important. If it's that important why are you all insisting on changing almost everything about it!

I hear ya - the whole scenario is hard for me to believe.

Everyone (not everyone) always does that - twists the story, turns it upside down, says maybe this and maybe that, tells it backwards, listens to it backwards, turns the words inside out and rewrites it to fit a predetermined mindset - which is the part that drives me nutso the most (even though I understand it/how/why that happens).

Sometimes I think we should be allowed to write the script since nobody else is willing to claim authorship of it and KC does not say she wrote it just that she followed it. So where's the script? We have to try to write it if nobody will show us the original.

CA writes hers, GA writes his, etc. They're all different; many versions to this screenplay. :waitasec: The saddest thing about it though is nobody can rewrite the ending - it is a sad one and will remain a sad one no matter what anybody writes - it is written already - Caylee Marie Anthony died shy of her third B-day at another's hand.

Now we have some out of the blue guy who comes along one year later (all we know so far - we can say maybe he came forward sooner, etc.) saying he was the last one to see KC with her daughter, Caylee. How convenient for GA and CA. Now the guy feels bad that he waited so long to come forward - guess what guy? - you should feel bad as this is crucial information.

 

[Cat13067]

My "hinky" meter went off when I read that "allegedly" Caylee was about 10 feet behind Casey and Caylee had to push the door open herself. The automatic doors stay open for quite a while.

If this person spotted Caylee having to open the door herself, why the heck didn't he help Caylee with the door? What are the chances that it was only Casey and Caylee exiting out of Wal-Mart at that time.

He also wonders "why" the child was not in school or daycare. Caylee was 2 1/2 years old at that time, why would he think of "school or daycare". School gets out the first week of June in Florida. This sighting was the week after school closed for the summer.

I could understand a child not knowing how long an automatic door stays opens. Maybe Caylee thought te doors might close if she tried to walk through them. As for Caylee not being in school during June we don't know what KC told the tech guy when she was in his store. Maybe she told him Caylee was in a pre-school program when she was at work. Face it KC could come up with lie after lie when it suited her.