2009.03.20 Document Release

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
On page 4970- it says there was a "pen register and trap and trace" installed based on an "Order" and "Application and Affidavit" - all of which were sealed. So LE got a warrant for a wiretap - who was it? The A home?

TL's was consensual so you don't need a court order- and since this report says the order was sealed, that rules out TL since they published that TL consented to a wiretap (you can't release that information if the record is sealed).

Also, did anyone see through the blackout which phones LE requested the records on?

bold by me.
"several subjects telephones" got me curious.

Perhaps LE got wiretaps on all the A's, home and cell phones,
The date was from August 21 and ended early September?3rd (I have short term memory lose LOL at the moment from reading thru the docs:crazy:)
Did that coincide with Casey's being bonded out the first time by LP?
 
http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/DONE mbi-letters-murphy-monforte.pdf

pg. #4965

Who is Daniel D.?

He's not in KC's addy book but is someone she called or called her..Hard to tell from what I can see but is listed as a "number of interest"..TIA!

Could that be the Danny that was supposed to have gone with Lee when he went looking for Casey at that party that night for Cindy during the month when she and Caylee were missing from the home?

The Anthony's also knew KC had no job, why they allowed it to spin so out of control is beyond me. KC viewed this as a mercy killing. She didn't want Caylee to grow up with CA, terrible as it sounds, she knew how she turned out! :bang:

JMHO
snipped for space...
I think that "mercy killing" thing stems from rumors of the "other" diary pages and we have no confirmation of that as of yet.:)

On pg. 4964 there's info on KC's 'best friend' Ryan P & then right below that is all the stuff about the other (?) Ryan P..They even know the address the # is linked to so how can there be so much confusion if this is actually the SAME person?

Also..Are you saying there are 2 conflicting cell records? IOW! In one there's NOTHING re: Ryan P after the call to the weather? :bang:
I think there actually are 2 conflicting records...they talked about it in the MIB report if I am not mistaken.

Yep...a check of the ATT records and KC's phone book confirms that at this particular date / time a call comes in from the parents that rolls to voicemail.

Interestingly, the ATT annotated report released on 3/5 has it right (p. 4224). It is the MBI agent report that is wrong.

I read somewhere while I was reading the MIB report that there are 2 different file types that are generated by the "system" and that the 2 different file types contain varying information and no single report has been developed that will show all the info that is there in the account on one single report. Anyone else read this and could this be the reason for the discrepancies? 2 different reports?
 
You've hit the nail on the head. It's EXTREMELY hard to take custody away from a biological mother who is not willing to give it.
In order to do it the A's would have to let Caylee be abused or neglected first. They didn't really have any options and Casey knew it.

They had plenty of options, starting the day they found out she was pregnant. They allowed themselves to be intrapped in this situation. They had options galore and the one they chose was the one they always chose-take care of it for her and raise her child and keep her here and keep on doing the same thing we have been doing and look how well that worked out for them. This was not a "hopeless" situation in the beginning of Caylee's life. It was allowed to become a hopeless situation by the time she was almost 3 years old. They had the very same options that any other parents have when their ADULT daughter turns up single and pregnant. Teach her to raise her child. Help her learn to be responsible. Make her pay her way. Make her contriubute. Make her take care of her child whenever she was not working or out for the ocassional night out with friends. They had options. We all have options. They chose this. They chose it every step of the way from the very first time they ever "bailed her out" for wrongdoing instead of allowing her to face her consequences and to learn her lesson. Life is not a hopeless thing where we have no choices. They had choices. They made them.
 
You've hit the nail on the head. It's EXTREMELY hard to take custody away from a biological mother who is not willing to give it.
In order to do it the A's would have to let Caylee be abused or neglected first. They didn't really have any options and Casey knew it.

We always have options-always.
Rest assured that Caylee was abused and neglected and in the end she lost her life from said "abuse" and or "neglect". Instead of trying to take her away from their daughter they might have tried to help her learn to take care of her own child and grow up. Casey was not some child-she was a 19 year old grown woman, able to fight for our country, vote, drink legally, consent to sex and to legally have a child. She should have been taught what it meant to BE a grown-up and allowed to suffer the consequences of continuing on in her "childish" ways.
 
I'll reach right along with you. Anyone else notice that she gave the same "died in a car accident" story but with a different name? Jesus...Josh...both "J" names. Thread of truth? Maybe the dad really is JP Chatt? another "J" name.

In the Rumour Thread located in the Parking Lot a "Josh" was discovered on March 4th. As soon as I read Meliba say that name, I thought of that.
 
*Lastname snipped*

IMHO, this appears to be another error in the LE report.

At exactly the time LE's report states, 20:33:39 on 6/17, after placing a call to Time & Weather (as LE's report correctly states), Casey receives and INCOMING call from G&C's home phone and lets it roll to vmail. There are no outgoing calls until 21:12:56...which is a call placed to Tony L.

Also, FWIW, the lastname provided in LE's report has the same first initial as the lastname of Casey's best guy-friend...also a Ryan P...however, his lastname sounds sorta like "Days Lee".

Hope that helps.

You are too funny but really excellent work! Has LE contacted you about possible employment options? or at least some consult work...

You and JWG make an excellent team and I hear tell they will be discontinuing all hand scribing on rulers in the next few months. I'd hate for him to end up homeless and on the streets when we know he is such a capable sleuth. I'm sure something will turn up for him after all scribes are not a dime a dozen...
 
...Rats...They are opportunistic omnivores and are primarily herbivorous. They will occasionally kill and eat small or baby animals....

respectfully snipped

Funny...that's how I would describe KC too!
 
How can anyone notice when CA always turns the other way and I believe GA left the discipline to his wife.

LA said it best, my sister has never been held responsible for anything in her life. Seems to me CA would always make excuses for her. We see how CA can spin her tales as well, this is handed down. A child learns what they live and by all accounts CA was a controlling mother who used verbal abuse to demean and belittle. We can all see how GA has beem emasulated, he wasn't the man of the house, CA was..

There is no doubt in my mind the Anthony's loved Caylee. When CA had gotten sound advice in regards to getting custody of Caylee and kicking KC out, she should have never trumped her hand. CA should have gone down to the courthouse and proceeded with filing for custody. Problem is CA always tells KC what she will do and doesn't follow through. She makes idle threats, KC tells her what she wants to hear and does the opposite

The Anthony's also knew KC had no job, why they allowed it to spin so out of control is beyond me. KC viewed this as a mercy killing. She didn't want Caylee to grow up with CA, terrible as it sounds, she knew how she turned out! :bang:

JMHO

Maybe Geo handed over control not by choice, but by threats and intimidation from CA... I think CA prolly also "bragged" about what she did and what she planned on doing, partly out of control but also to command her notion of respect. (see what I can do if you don't respect me?)

I'll never believe KC killed Caylee to save her from CA. KC thinks she turned out just fine. She loves herself so much she thinks she should be allowed to get away with murder! KC may not be rocket scientist or brain surgeon material, but she's no fool. She could have used FL's Safe Haven laws to leave Caylee with any provider and they are walking distance close to everyone. She killed Caylee because she could, because it made her feel impowered, because she is a spiteful beotch and if she didn't want 'the little snot head' no one else could have her either. Caylee's death achieved 2 goals with one stone so to speak. KC regained her freedom and knocked her mother down at the same time.

We always have options-always.
Rest assured that Caylee was abused and neglected and in the end she lost her life from said "abuse" and or "neglect". Instead of trying to take her away from their daughter they might have tried to help her learn to take care of her own child and grow up. Casey was not some child-she was a 19 year old grown woman, able to fight for our country, vote, drink legally, consent to sex and to legally have a child. She should have been taught what it meant to BE a grown-up and allowed to suffer the consequences of continuing on in her "childish" ways.

I don't know what C & G's parenting was like when KC was young (like all of us they probably did the best they could) but I think it is highly likely neither of them had the proper skills to 'parent' KC and all her problems. I just wish they would have admitted it and gotten help sooner rather then later.

From my own personal experience it is impossible to teach or parent someone like KC without an arsenal of professional help. It's like trying to teach tricks to a rock. With the proper support and some training and a tough love attitude they should have been OK. Or at least much better off then they were.

CA is a medical professional, there is no excuse IMO for her not to have recognized the problems KC had and done something about it. KC didn't become KC overnite. They have had ever escalating problems with her for well over a year, possibly over 2 years. No excuse in my book.

In the Rumour Thread located in the Parking Lot a "Josh" was discovered on March 4th. As soon as I read Meliba say that name, I thought of that.

Sadly the MVA's really happened to these boys that KC went to school with. Just not the way KC implied. This probably gave her the idea for bumping off Caylee's daddy and Zanny's MVA too. The cell phone drama, all the moving around by everyone LE needs to interview about the nanny.

Caylee's daddy had moved to another state, then he too died (after his wedding) in a MVA. For someone who thrives on DRAMA, KC's imaginary friends have a very mundane existence.
 
bold by me.
"several subjects telephones" got me curious.

Perhaps LE got wiretaps on all the A's, home and cell phones,
The date was from August 21 and ended early September?3rd (I have short term memory lose LOL at the moment from reading thru the docs:crazy:)
Did that coincide with Casey's being bonded out the first time by LP?
This is what I was thinking too ! Humm, I just wonder...:confused:
 
WOW, Trafficsup66! You wrote a fabulous post hitting all of the main highlights of KC's pathological behavior. Perhaps you should consider a book on her & the other players in this tragic story.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! :applause:
 
WHY did they continue to enable her after all of this and much more that we will never know about? Why did they let it go on so long?:innocent:
After reading many of the docu dumps plus Grandma's (btw, a terrific read for fact and a bit of humor) my feeling is Cindy was holding George in check, fighting financial problem, keeping the family name intact from rumors regarding KC but above all Caylee. The one thing Casey had over Cindy was the baby - they had no hold on her to come and go - only threats, baseless at that. There was no proof of neglect; Cindy only had a gut feeling that things were not as they seemed. The unspoken phrase probably in the quiet of George and Cindy's bedroom was 'what if she takes Caylee away'? So they enabled her habits and covered up. How do we know if she had pushed for custody would it have changed anything?
I really feel that Casey's Grandmother said it all when she uttered that maybe Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee. Withholding Caylee from Cindy forever would be the ultimate punishment.
 
My hat is off to all of you for your personal insights and facts about this tragic drama and the world's loss of beautiful Caylee. :sunshine:

Thank you so much!! :applause:
 
bold by me.
"several subjects telephones" got me curious.

Perhaps LE got wiretaps on all the A's, home and cell phones,
The date was from August 21 and ended early September?3rd (I have short term memory lose LOL at the moment from reading thru the docs:crazy:)
Did that coincide with Casey's being bonded out the first time by LP?

This is what I was thinking too ! Humm, I just wonder...:confused:

Why yes it did, LP posted bond and KC left the jail on 8/21 after 5 weeks and 1 day in the poky. IIRC she was rearrested on 8/29 on forged check charges after nine days of freedom.

On 9/5 she managed to find herself an anonymous sugar daddy who again put up $500,000 bond, after she and JB released a statement saying they appreciate what LP did but will no longer work with him after his bond was revoked.
 
HMMMMMMMMMMM. Would be sumpthin if Paddy or his lil helper set that up for LE. Just sayin-----------just sayin. LOL
 
I guess I need more meat from a d-dump cuz all this lil bit does is make me look deeper than I wanna. I wonder what the big deal is about Caylee's daddy? I mean, LE ask e-body over and over. Who he is----where he is-----age---e-thang!!!

Another poster said it once before---maybe more than one, about maybe LE thinks KC might have killed the daddy???!!!!!!!!??? I had already thought about the jogger. I mean, really-------who cares------why is it important who the daddy is?
 
Because Casey threatened to take Caylee and LEAVE.

Caylee was Casey's revenge- finally something to hold over her parent's heads- their love for their grandbaby.

Caylee was a living breathing TRUMP CARD and Casey played it every day and every night.

They paid and did what they had to do to keep Caylee, NOT Casey, and Casey knew it.
This is the absolute BEST explaination I have seen.
 
It should have been their love for Caylee that made them NOT cater to Casey's whims. True love for Caylee would have been for her mother to BE her mother and for them to have encouraged this and supported it. True love does not attempt to smother another persons love or "one-up" it. Casey was Caylee's mother, and they should have insisted that she BE that instead of doing what they had done in every other situation in which Casey found herself, which was to take care of it for her.

As for them "looking over" her atrocities for their love of Caylee? That is not love. That is weakness and dependency, but not love. Love does not look over and allow negligent, immoral and or unethical behavior as its source. If they loved her so much, then they should have let her go like the old saying goes. In letting go they may have been able to save her. In clinging and looking over all the wrong, in the end, they did nothing to protect her and look where she ended up-dead. I am not saying it was their "fault". I am saying that they enabled her all those years in all of her other behaviors and continue to enable her to this very day and cover and lie for her. Caylee is gone, and yet, the enabling of Casey beats on. If it was about their love for Caylee then it would have ended when they knew Caylee was gone. This is not the case. It still has not ended and I doubt that it ever will. When one "looks over" crime and allows it to grow larger and more serious in order to have ones own will fulfilled, one is not engaging in "love" one is engaging in dependency.

Also regarding the "therapy" that Cindy went for, her mother tells us in this new doc dump that she went, was told to toss Casey and knew that she could not possibly do this and never went back again. That is not therapy. Therapy would have been to have done the deed and tossed her out on her ear.

This was your reply to my post, and I absolutely agree that normal parents/ grandparents would have done this. ALL of this, plus probably more to stop the madness.

Remember how people who knew her have said over and over that Casey didn't really stand out in HS, wasn't really extremely good or very bad?.. Wasn't in any " crowd" of either good or bad? Kind of the invisible type. Cindy was said to be " over-protective" and " hovering". I see it very well.This type of young female IS dominated by her mother at home. The mother attempts to control and live vicariously through the female child. Jealousy of the maturing young woman is a prominent feature of a mother with poor ego boundaries like I believe Cindy had and has, and hyper-criticism is also a prominent feature of the dynamics of the mother, which may be disguised as " overly helpful" or " extremely watchful", or even " babying". The mother is conveying to her daughter that the child/ teen/ adult lacks qualities needed to " be safe", to make sound decisions, to stand on her own two feet.
The daughter's reactions are usually avoidance, self- doubt, and inner resentment. Together, the jealousy, the criticism, the lack of privacy and boundaries are extremely toxic in a young girl's development of a sense of self- worth and also of the critical development of her own judgment skills. In the extreme, the intrusion of the mother into the psyche of her daughter can cause a serious mental illness to develop in the maturing teenager. Usually, we would expect to see depression, dependency issues, and extremely low self- esteem. We would also expect to see features which are clearly evident: lack of respect for the boundaries of others and jealousy of her own child. I doubt there were proper ego boundaries on Cindy's part from Casey's early childhood onwards.

I have never seen even one single photo of Casey with Cindy when she was a child, but would love to see a photo album of the two of them. I think it would be extremely revealing. Casey didn't learn good parenting because it wasn't displayed in her home. She apparently was able to play nice at school, and IF she was " bad" at home, we don't know anything about sociopathic behavior during her childhood or HS teen years. Also, it seems to me that until Caylee was born, the most that could be said about Cindy publicly was that Cindy was a professional nurse with a responsible position ( she was a supervisor at a home health care agency), and probably, from what Casey became, was in a a push- pull / conflict/ smothering type of pattern with Casey, as descried above.

This IS a sick family. They have never established " rank". There was always a push/ pull between at least Cindy and Casey, and probably with George thrown in too. I don't know enough about Lee to know how he was treated or how he coped.
Cindy assumed a position of absolute control out of fear.
People who feel the need to control situations in the household and in other people's lives do so out of personal fear. Cindy does not trust anyone in her life to any degree.

I do NOT know the source of Cindy's initial fear and control with Casey when she was growing up. But, I do believe Casey was parented with conflicting elements of over-control and over-indulgence. This is extremely confusing to a child and teen. I think Casey found a false and fleeting sense of self- identity and self-esteem through interactions with males who flattered her and paid attention to her after she physically matured and changed. I think she used her female friends ( friend being a very shallow term for Casey) but probably has sought a secure relationship with a man because her relationship with her mother was so volatile and inconsistent for most, if not all, of her life.

I would expect an adult aged Casey to distrust all females to a great extent and to manipulate people for her own want and needs. A child manipulates its world for its own wants and needs. Casey is stuck in an immature state of emotional growth, one that operates on the pleasure principle, but makes quite a lot of painful missteps and falls. The child who is parented with great conflicting messages is stuck in an " I want, I need" mentality with no empathy for the world around her, or any other person.
I believe Casey changed the entire family dynamics when she got pregnant with Caylee at a young age with great gaps in her own emotional maturity, as you have read in my posts about the control Casey held over her family through threats about taking Caylee away from them.
Casey observed Cindy all her life, resented her, and also learned what control gave a person. Caylee was the only " thing' Casey ever "possessed" to give her any control. Caylee was who Casey's parents loved most. When she saw that her mother's greatest weakness was Caylee, Casey manipulated her parents through the tug of war over Caylee. The resentment against them remained, their resentments of her remained, and she resented their love for her child because it took love away from her, in her eyes. Casey needed her parents love, but she didn't love them.
Casey saw Caylee as a part of her own self. Caylee was never a separate person to Casey. She always " belonged" to Casey like a possession would.

When Casey decided to exert her own form of control, it was totally off kilter. Both the acts of a child who was raised by wolves turned loose in Disneyland, and the acts of a child raised in Disneyland turned loose in a world full of wolves. Casey never learned or was able to distinguish the importance of truth over lies, and her truths were lies, and her basis for evil. Again, sociopathy in an anti-social personality.
 
She saw from the day Caylee was born and Cindy held her first that the loyalty and love would be shifting away from her to Caylee. Caylee was EVERYTHING to George and Cindy.
Casey was a lying, theiving, thorn in the Anthony's side.
The ONLY reason for them not to throw her out, not to confront her lies about a babysitter, Caylee's father, Casey's job, her partying, her drugging, her drinking, her stealing, her ID theft, her staying out all night with this guy or another guy was because of their love for Caylee.

No matter what, Casey had legal custody of Caylee. No father in the picture anywhere. So, Caylee was the pawn, to be used by Casey to get her way in the Anthony household. It's why no one in the family stopped her from doing the things she did to them and to her grandparents, even.

They knew that if she got mad, she would take her bags and Caylee and leave and would hide out with one guy or the other for possibly years. I'm sure that's what Cindy thought she had done when Casey killed Caylee.
I think the ONLY reason the Anthonys put up with Casey's BS is because
their love for Caylee over-rode everything else. She was innocent, helpless, needed protection. She loved them dearly too.

As far as why Cindy doesn't hate Casey now- She's lived in denial about Casey for over three years that we know of, beginning with Casey's obvious pregnancy.
Cindy and George aren't emotionally healthy or they would have done things differently with Casey and her threats to take Caylee and leave. Casey, an able-bodied adult, lived OFF THEM in THEIR house. They ALLOWED her to stay there, rip people off, including them and the grandparents, to stay out all night, etc. wHY?
Because their love for Caylee Marie Anthony and their need for her in their lives was stronger than their outrage at Casey...


It was a very bad situation that ended on the day that Cindy finally snapped, the two had a huge fight, and Caylee ended up murdered. by her angry, self-serving mother.

Rememer- Cindy had already been to therapy and had been advised to throw Casey out. She didnt- because Casey would have taken Caylee with her out of spite. No other reason, just spite.

This post brought tears... because this exact thing is going on with my
sister and her daughter.
My sister is trying to get custody of her grandson but it is not as easy
as some think even with proven abuse, drugs and abandonment.
I feel for George and Cindy because I can see first hand what they
had to go through.
 
In other words, discovery does NOT work both ways?

not really - defense needs to sumbit witness lists, summaries of experts (resumes, what they will testify about), defense discovery is more about intentions - if they are going with an insanity defense or a specific alibi, they need to let prosecutors know the names of the doctors and witnesses, etc. No document dumps from defense attorneys.
 
I think Shirley P had/has the clearest handle on what happened and what it would take to get this girl to acknowledge what she did. Casey hated Cindy more than she loved Caylee-case closed.
 

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