2009.05.28 Motions Hearing

[OneLostGrl]

IMO, there is no way that videotape could really help the prosecution unless KC seems angry rather than distraught. I despise KC, but as a jurror, I couldn't put any significance on the fact that she reacted so strongly even before the remains were identified, because the remains were clearly that of a human toddler, including the skull, and they were discovered just down the street from KC's house. Even the most innocent, stoic mother could easily leap to the obvious conclusion and fall apart at this news. I would.

Now, if the prosecution also had a videotape of KC's unpreturbed, indifferent reaction to the discovery of apparent remains at Blanchard Park, that could definitely sway the jury toward a guilty verdict. But that tape for comparison doesn't exist, and witness testimony won't carry nearly as much weight as a video tape, especially not in a death penalty case.

As I said at the beginning here, unless KC looks angry on the Dec 11th videotape, that tape could blow up in the prosecution's face. That doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see it, however, because it's about time we saw KC suffer instead of smirk for a change. In fact, if she's acquitted, that day will be the only time she suffered badly for murdering her child.

Naw, if she's acquitted she gets to go back home with mommy dearest.

 

[OneLostGrl]

George and Cindy - are you understanding yet????? Do you FINALLY get it????

Doubt it.

 

[ibyoungr]

Naw, if she's acquitted she gets to go back home with mommy dearest.

If she is aquitted of the murder she still goes to prision for forgery and theft.
She had 19 felony charges.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Was not PB. I'm not sure who he was, I was trying to figure it out - after the hearing he went up to the judge's bench and was talking to Strickland. Maybe a law student?

He was talking to Strickland? Would that be normal for a court room observer to approach a judge after the hearing? That just seems a bit weird.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Agreed! In fact, I think JB envisions himself as the Defense P.R. expert on the case, the one whose role it is to frustrate, and obfuscate, and deprecate
(add any other "cates" you think fit) the SA. IIRC, last year his daughter, who's apparently finishing college, is said to have headed up his P.R. firm,
but I think he's really the Head Spin-Man.

I wish he would abdicate. LOL.

Actually I don't because I think he is exactly the lawyer Casey desrves.

 

[Verité]

Dude's a hot-head. He should have taken himself off the case after that first run-in with JoseB. JoseB's enjoying this, pissin' this guy off, and I'm afraid he's gonna do it during trial or whatever and it'll just be the straw with this guy.

I like him- don't get me wrong!! I love a pissed off DA, it means he cares, not many do anymore but I think JoseB is pushing this guy, knowingly and with pleasure almost.

I really really dislike JoseB, every time he puts on a show it's worse than the last, this guy has strong "terrible two's" type anti-social tendencies.. he doesn't even act like a teenager would. He is very interesting to me, JoseB is.

OLG, y' gotta get goin' on your book. Such original language (editors call it "voice") and such colorful characterizations, you'd have a best seller.

I'm not kiddin' either!::bowdown:

 

[NocturnalLady]

Good question.
Still waiting for it. I still have to put in my request for the latest one, I will ask what's holding up the last one.

I'm guessing, but I think it may be that the SA's office is trying to hold down the publicity level? To counter Baez's change of venue motion.

Any legal eagles know if there is a time limit for them to make docs public?

Bold mine.

Hmmm - that could be. Good thought!

 

[Gaia713]

when i saw casey in court with the long hair i immediatley thought of how much she resembled caylee. i could imagine a grown up caylee. do you feel this could hurt her or help her if she has trial? if she has her old look back short hair does it get the jury to not identify her as much with caylee? if she keeps the long hair she certainly does resemble caylee i feel. when you think of casey do you now start to visualize her as she looks now or before? i think we who follow case have seen so many different looks along the year we are used to it gradually. i know we are not to pick apart looks but this question is to ask how jury might be thinking. if atty want her to look more plain -they did it. comparing pics of a year ago you would hardly recognize her. i do believe she must have had blue contact lens prioror am i thinking eyes looked hazel like caylee in court? i do not know what the plan is in making her look so different. i know that 33rd street jail has hairdressers there to cut hair etc. she must want this new look cause she could have her short hair. what do you think>> all for image or atty says this is you now??
i spoke with some friends out state and they said who is casey?? i guess not everyone knows case. i said you know the zanny nany case--huh she said and she is very smart too-lol

Yet Jose proceeds to plant himself on every TV screen he can. I think he would be aghast at how manyh people DON't know about this case. He is so puffed up with his own egotism that he can't see the forest for the trees. He also is giving his client more importance than she deserves.

 

[NocturnalLady]

Because there is wide latitude in the courtroom? Also, I don't know what strategy at this point the Grund's attorney may be going for. **If** they are considering a suit against Casey and/or the Anthonys for trying to portray him as the killer perhaps they would like it on record that Baez is going on about "Jessie as a suspect". I really don't know. If I was Jesse's attorney I think my natural inclination would be to leap up and object even if it was inappropriate to do so. That comment just dropped in the courtroom like a bomb. I wish I could have seen the Rev Grund's reaction.

I think you may be right there. Letting Casey's defense and the A's jabber on and on actually helps the prosecution. It just becomes impossible for the defense to reconcile all the stories that have been told and to retract all the slip ups they have made. They are making all the other lawyers jobs much easier I think. Also impeaching themselves left and right. So I say let them talk. They only dig their own graves.

 

[skygirl]

I did not like hearing that Jessie was considered a suspect; it just sort of hung in the air.

yes. I agree. I just finished watching it. I could feel it! I was almost waiting for somone to say "objection!",but then obvoiously everyone there probably after the inintal shock, thought, lets not open that can of worrms-please!

Jmo
:waitasec: :bang:

 

[NocturnalLady]

when i saw casey in court with the long hair i immediatley thought of how much she resembled caylee. i could imagine a grown up caylee. do you feel this could hurt her or help her if she has trial? if she has her old look back short hair does it get the jury to not identify her as much with caylee? if she keeps the long hair she certainly does resemble caylee i feel. when you think of casey do you now start to visualize her as she looks now or before? i think we who follow case have seen so many different looks along the year we are used to it gradually. i know we are not to pick apart looks but this question is to ask how jury might be thinking. if atty want her to look more plain -they did it. comparing pics of a year ago you would hardly recognize her. i do believe she must have had blue contact lens prioror am i thinking eyes looked hazel like caylee in court? i do not know what the plan is in making her look so different. i know that 33rd street jail has hairdressers there to cut hair etc. she must want this new look cause she could have her short hair. what do you think>> all for image or atty says this is you now??
i spoke with some friends out state and they said who is casey?? i guess not everyone knows case. i said you know the zanny nany case--huh she said and she is very smart too-lol

I think the long hair is purposeful in order to have her looking as little like the Fusion party pictures as possible. It's softer, younger and more vulnerable. Also probably looks more like potential jurors who could then identify with her.

 

[Verité]

Casey now has four VIP attorneys representing her who undoubtedly earn an "Above Average" Income to put it mildly, plus JB, who certainly lives as if he does, too. Earlier in this topic, Themis mentioned the importance of KC's demeanor in the courtroom and noted that new Attorney Andrea even wrote KC a note telling her to stop writing on her notepad (because KC should instead appear very attentive and somber about the proceedings).

In view of that, I'd like to cautiously and intellectually focus briefly on KC's ill-fitting, unflattering apparrel, particularly her blouse. My question is: If her demeanor is so vitally important to her lawyers, don't they also want her to appear neatly and simply/properly/modestly (choose one) clothed in court?

Is there some reason that not one of her attorneys would want to buy or borrow a shirt that fit her ?

We know how vain KC is, so it's hard to believe she wanted to appear in that horribly ill-fitting, uncomfortable shirt.

Is it likely or even possible that her attorneys actually want to diminish her physical attractiveness for the sake of jurrors and potential jurrors?

Honestly, if I didn't know what she's really like, I'd have pitied her for the way she looked.

bold mine

May I cautiously and respectfully respond with a generalization about courtroom apparel?

Seems to me that apparel does make a loud statement (I thought the Menendez brothers looked terribly cute in their sweaters--pun intended.)
But when clothes are ill-fitted & hair stringy and uncoiffed, I suspect the defendant is being "orphanized."

Re your last paragraph above, I've had the impression that some masterful choreographer is imposing on us a subliminal over-identification with Caylee.
I saw that most clearly on the day the hair was pulled back in a pony-tail type style, almost matching the last video of Caylee on Father's Day, 2008.
Whether that is a deliberate defense ploy or unconscious gesture by the defendant, it seems to work. I, too, felt "pity."

 

[Seebra]

I cannot bring myself to ever find pity for this person who murdered her daughter and went on as though nothing had happened.

A 2 year old baby girl - more beautiful than one can imagine.

I have no pity for her murderer, I don't care what she wears, how she looks... I see a mother who let her daughter die in one way or another - who had NO COMPASSION for her, no worry, no sadness.

I actually find it very disturbing that jurors are swayed by a defendant's look - and that the evidence alone doesn't always speak for the crime that was committed.

It scares me that this is our country's justice system - that courtroom antics such as the one yesterday are allowed to go on - is anything taken seriously anymore?

I really cannot fathom this happening in England, where the system seems much more formal and respectful, and more concerned with the facts than how the parties are dressed.

 

[Verité]

Cindy is the one who pointed the finger at JG. I think she did it as revenge - after all JG DID stand up to her in defense of KC and my gut feerling is that if you sltand up to Cindy, you will reap the consequences. Ditto for her pointing the finger at Amy. REVENGE. I guess Cindy has never thought that her word is NOT law.

There is nothin' I like better than Freudian slips. . .so, please take it as a big compliment, coz I believe our greatest self-truths come from our unconscious.
In the bolded above, I LOVE your description of a gut "fearling" when you see that pointed finger. . .coz, boy, oh, boy, so do I!

 

[Verité]

I cannot bring myself to ever find pity for this person who murdered her daughter and went on as though nothing had happened.

A 2 year old baby girl - more beautiful than one can imagine.

I have no pity for her murderer, I don't care what she wears, how she looks... I see a mother who let her daughter die in one way or another - who had NO COMPASSION for her, no worry, no sadness.

I actually find it very disturbing that jurors are swayed by a defendant's look - and that the evidence alone doesn't always speak for the crime that was committed.

It scares me that this is our country's justice system - that courtroom antics such as the one yesterday are allowed to go on - is anything taken seriously anymore?

I really cannot fathom this happening in England, where the system seems much more formal and respectful, and more concerned with the facts than how the parties are dressed.

The pity which I was talking about is for the "visual," the creation of an impression--an over-identification to Caylee. Nowadays, visuals are what makes the world go round,
sell records, and influence juries.

I don't know if you're saying that you're British, but there's no less masterful use of visuals in courtrooms there: Think powdered-wigs.
And who brought us American Idol," based on the Brit's hugely successful "Pop Idol." Think Aristocracy,rinces: The Queen, and all that.

Yeah, we all live in the age of visuals, and those most likely influenced by the name brand vs. the generic still argue that they're not influenced by "packaging."

 

[Seebra]

The pity which I was talking about is for the "visual," the creation of an impression--an over-identification to Caylee. Nowadays, visuals are what makes the world go round,
sell records, and influence juries.

I don't know if you're saying that you're British, but there's no less masterful use of visuals in courtrooms there: Think powdered-wigs.
And who brought us American Idol," based on the Brit's hugely successful "Pop Idol." Think Aristocracy,rinces: The Queen, and all that.

Yeah, we all live in the age of visuals, and those most likely influenced by the name brand vs. the generic still argue that they're not influenced by "packaging."

LOL - I wasn't attacking anyone who felt pity, so hopefully noone took it like that. And I am not British, but was actually referring to the powdered wig, etc - because it seems to eliminate at least some of the visuals, at least the "he's bald" ones, and the black robes also try to set everyone on the same playing field, if you will.

I've often wondered about (and this goes for the American Idol shows as well) - just HEARING and SEEING the EVIDENCE rather than the actual players.

For hypothetical - let's say that someone is 100% guilty, and all the evidence proves that this person is guilty, but this person looks pitiful in the courtroom, and the jurors feel sorry for the person and thus the person, guilty as sin, is proclaimed innocent.

For me, this is a major flaw - it's not just America, I know this - but as far as the courtroom antics, from what my European friends have told me, at least, America has become somewhat lax in the law and legal preceedings - and thus I was referring to the lack of formality and respect (at least in this case) that I have seen so far.

It's complicated - and IMO, too much so.

 

[countzero]

Well I for one was certainly not impressed with the dressings of any of them from the defense table.

That said, we all expected LKB to attempt to change KC's image. Perhaps she purchased the blouse or CA did. Don't care. Because all the photos of KC pre June 08 and post June 08 until Oct 08 will not change who KC is.

Once the jury views all the photos, courtesy of KC herself and former friends, no amount of makeup or wardrobe changes will help her appear to be the innocent victim of the SODDI theory.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

I was under the impression that this video was recorded before Baez got there and that it was NOT taken during a medical exam or in a medical exam room. So this video in no way would violate Casey's rights....If I am wrong please correct me. I am a little confused now because I am not clear as to the time of the video, it seems that there may be more to the video. Maybe part of the reaction of Casey in the waiting area and then the other part while in the clinic.
In the motion below it states it was taken in the medical facility and they are asking for 4 weeks to prepare, so I take it that next week will just be another continuance on the issue of the video.

Continuance Motion: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19599941/detail.html

I have always thought that Baez' "objections" to this video was a bit overboard- as that old saying goes " he who protest too much"......

The primary issue regarding this video tape is that Casey reacted BEFORE knowing it was Caylee. She has a radio in her cell and I can only assume she heard about it there first--she also briefly watched when Padilla did his search and at first it was said something was "found", which later turned out to be nothing, and she had absolutely no reaction---BUT this time, before even knowing who or exactly what was found--Casey went off the deep end. This could have a major impact on the fact, or the argument that she KNEW it was Caylee because she put her there or had knowledge Caylee was placed there.....

I think Baez' incessant protesting to this video indicates that he also knew-I don't recall him rushing to Casey's side when Padilla did his search. ( again if I am wrong please correct me).

I would think that if Baez didn't have anything to hide, and Casey is as innocent as he proclaims wouldn't he want to use this tape to his advantage? Arguing that it shows that his client did in fact have an emotional response and isn't the cold hearted murder she is being portrayed as? However, "IMO" Baez knows most of the truth and he also knows that SA is going to bring up Padilla's search and Casey's non emotional response to that---, wasn't it said she thought it was funny? Baez called it ludicrous as well. So why the emotional response to this find from both attorney and client?

 

[Searchfortruth]

Dose anyone that was in the courtroom yesterday know why no one objected when Baez stated that Jesse Grund was a suspect. As far as I know it was never announce that he was.. Except from Cindy..

Exactly the question that I was thinking about...I expected his Attorney to say something, but nothing was said ! I did see some very surprised looks on the faces of the prosecutor's, but aside from that...nothing.

 

[RR0004]

Regardless of if we get to see the video or not, those were not tears for her daughter......They were "oh cr*p, they found her!"

Ya know, I've considered that, but I still want to see that cold heart. How can her no "affect" not play into this? Surely, they'll have someone (if not many) testifying about her overall demeanor. Watching her most recent court appearance, I don't see any "grief" in her eyes. I truly can't see any visible connection to her child in those eyes.