2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[Devon]

I didn't know this. IF Caylee died in some tragic acceident scenerio, then WHY is KC sitting in jail right now? Cause she's a sociopath who doesn't possess the ability to admit a single wrong-doing? Boo-hoo.
Still, WHEN would this scenerio have taken place? WHY did GA LIE and say he saw KC and Caylee leave (1:30ish on June 16)? So many questions....

I've added a link to the info. in my previous post. I can only guess why KC would still be keeping quiet IF it was an accident:

1) She is a coward who has found that lying about everything and anything that she doesn't want to acknowledge/admit to is so much easier than dealing with the truth, and up until July 15 2008, she had been fairly successful.

2) If it was an accident, where was KC? If a child of mine had died because I hadn't been paying sufficient attention to her whereabouts or safety, I know that I would feel immense guilt and feel that I had caused her death, even though it wouldn't have been intentional. I would still feel like a murderer!

3) CA was allegedly constantly criticising KC's parenting of Caylee and calling her a bad mother. Caylee was also apparently the centre of the A's world. If KC failed to watch Caylee properly, is she ever likely to want to confess to her parents that her careless negligence stole their darling granddaughter away from them forever? (I think this is also why she can't bear to look at them in court and doesn't want any more visits - she can't face their pain!)

4) She's lied from day one - who would believe her now?

5) She may be hoping that she'll be found not guilty of murder or manslaughter. She could then continue to avoid the truth and deceive her parents.

As for GA's recollection of June 16 - I think he's recalling a different day, whichever was his clearest memory of Caylee from at least a month prior. KC/Caylee may well have left the house on June 16 at the time he states, but he could also be wrong. Maybe they were there all day until KC left at around 4.00pm - who knows?

 

[Ripley007]

That bag of trash with nothing stinky in it sure fooled her mother!!

You and I both know that it didn't REALLY fool her mother. Her Mother tried to Fool the Public though!:blowkiss:

 

[MADJGNLAW]

So, the THC and cannibis aka "pot" stuff found on the paper towels could come from say, just a roll of paper towels sitting on the kitchen counter in an atmosphere where pot is smoked regularly? Is it absorbed by the towel? Or could it come from maybe a hand using the towel that just smoked a joint? Just curious....I agree the paper towels are a huge find here!

I to feel the paper towels will disclose a allot. I am wondering if Casey bought any on her trips to target and if so it could sort of give a date when used?

 

[Ripley007]

I've added a link to the info. in my previous post. I can only guess why KC would still be keeping quiet IF it was an accident:

1) She is a coward who has found that lying about everything and anything that she doesn't want to acknowledge/admit to is so much easier than dealing with the truth, and up until July 15 2008, she had been fairly successful.

2) If it was an accident, where was KC? If a child of mine had died because I hadn't been paying sufficient attention to her whereabouts or safety, I know that I would feel immense guilt and feel that I had caused her death, even though it wouldn't have been intentional. I would still feel like a murderer!

3) CA was allegedly constantly criticising KC's parenting of Caylee and calling her a bad mother. Caylee was also apparently the centre of the A's world. If KC failed to watch Caylee properly, is she ever likely to want to confess to her parents that her careless negligence stole their darling granddaughter away from them forever? (I think this is also why she can't bear to look at them in court and doesn't want any more visits - she can't face their pain!)

4) She's lied from day one - who would believe her now?

5) She may be hoping that she'll be found not guilty of murder or manslaughter. She could then continue to avoid the truth and deceive her parents.

As for GA's recollection of June 16 - I think he's recalling a different day, whichever was his clearest memory of Caylee from at least a month prior. KC/Caylee may well have left the house on June 16 at the time he states, but he could also be wrong. Maybe they were there all day until KC left at around 4.00pm - who knows?

Great Post. Many great unanswered questions. No.2-OMG-me too. If one of my children died in some tragic acciedent on my watch, I would have branded myself a Murderer. I couldn't have handled it.

 

[beach]

I see absolutely NOTHING interesting in the fact that KC decided to remove trash bags from TonE's apt, and stash them in her trunk...Too little, too late. TonE READILY admitted to LE that the recovered trash in her trunk was from inside of his apartment! Kudos TonE for your honesty! At least one paper reciept found was a credit/debit card receipt from a TL roomate from FUSION. Dated (IIRC) MONTHS before TL ever even knew KC. A LAME attempt at a possible "frame-up" in my mind.

I don't think I was very clear on the point I was trying to make.

Simply put - the fact that the paper towels that tested + for decomp were discovered in the trash bag from TL's and were found to be in KC's trunk, ties her directly to Caylee's death. Unless one wants to believe that the imaginanny hung out at TL's, too. Doubtful, since no one has every seen her. I don't for one second believe that she was trying to set up TL. He was wayyyy down on her list of friends to implicate. She was just careless and stupid....again.

 

[Ripley007]

I don't think I was very clear on the point I was trying to make.

Simply put - the fact that the paper towels that tested + for decomp were discovered in the trash bag from TL's and were found to be in KC's trunk, ties her directly to Caylee's death. Unless one wants to believe that the imaginanny hung out at TL's, too. Doubtful, since no one has every seen her. I don't for one second believe that she was trying to set up TL. He was wayyyy down on her list of friends to implicate. She was just careless and stupid....again.

Honestly, I've been away from this site for the past few days. Haven't downloaded or read the latest document drops. All this "Paper Towel" talk...swish-over my head. Only learning about it tonight from posts like yours. Anything that can directly tie KC to Caylee's death is a good news thing to me. Thank you!

 

[beach]

Honestly, I've been away from this site for the past few days. Haven't downloaded or read the latest document drops. All this "Paper Towel" talk...swish-over my head. Only learning about it tonight from posts like yours. Anything that can directly tie KC to Caylee's death is a good news thing to me. Thank you!

hey, i know exactly what you mean! when the paper towel talk first started, i didn't get the big deal, either. i had to pm a friend that i knew understood the importance to help me connect-the-dots. i think one of the problems i had is that, unlike most everything else, it is soooo simple and factual. no speculation needed. lol

 

[Valhall]

Bolded by me.


Why would she expend all that care, thought and forward planning just to render Caylee unconscious when she could kill her outright with a liberal dosing? If she did use it to knock Caylee out, why then bother carrying her outside, heaving her into the pool, having to climb in later and retrieve an even heavier load and then deal with a dripping wet body? A pillow would be sooooo much easier?

Good points, Devon. I'm just trying to reconcile the ladder/pool supply box/gate issues. But as Ripley stated....they may just be another CAGA lie.

 

[treeseeker]

respectfully snipped from Vallhall's link:

Quote:
Experimental observation of the chemistry of adipocere formation indicated that adipocere can be formed only a few hours after an incidence of death and this continues until the saturation of oleic acid degradation after several weeks. Different time courses were obtained for cadavers immersed in distilled, chlorinated, and saline water, respectively. http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS4630609.htm

I think this abstract is stating that adipocere formation is accelerated by immersion in water?

 

[Valhall]

respectfully snipped from Vallhall's link:

Quote:
Experimental observation of the chemistry of adipocere formation indicated that adipocere can be formed only a few hours after an incidence of death and this continues until the saturation of oleic acid degradation after several weeks. Different time courses were obtained for cadavers immersed in distilled, chlorinated, and saline water, respectively. http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS4630609.htm

I think this abstract is stating that adipocere formation is accelerated by immersion in water?

Not necessarily immersion, as indicated in another link provided in my post. I think "moist" is needed, but not submerged.

 

[Devon]

Great Post. Many great unanswered questions. No.2-OMG-me too. If one of my children died in some tragic acciedent on my watch, I would have branded myself a Murderer. I couldn't have handled it.

Bolded by me.

Exactly - and add to that thought the likely reaction of someone who is a coward and compulsive liar, who avoids and reinvents even the most insignificant perceived 'deficiencies' in her life and who is a master at creating her own 'reality' and then we can see that facing up to the most horrendous 'truth' that she has ever encountered is not something that KC is ever likely to do.

 

[Devon]

Good points, Devon. I'm just trying to reconcile the ladder/pool supply box/gate issues. But as Ripley stated....they may just be another CAGA lie.

Bolded by me.

Well if it was, they must have had an eerily accurate premonition that they might need to protect KC from a murder charge one day, because the event was relayed by CA to her work colleague long before they knew Caylee was missing.

 

[Valhall]

Bolded by me.

Well if it was, they must have had an eerily accurate premonition that they might need to protect KC from a murder charge one day, because the event was relayed by CA to her work colleague long before they knew Caylee was missing.

Woa! How did I miss this important point?! Would you happen to remember if that was in an interview? If so, i can probably locate it. If this is so, then the drowning option is back on the table irrespective of what additional steps it would take. Remember, KC isn't a rocket scientist and the majority of what she would have read would have indicated unconsciousness and POSSIBLE death...the additional steps would have been insurance. The chloroform would have prevented struggling, screams, etc. A chloroformed child held under water would have drowned (lungs full of water)....so cause of death established. My suspicions are an initial plan of reporting accidental drowning and then chickening out...for whatever reason. The flurry of phone calls didn't result in getting to tell mommy, and then she chickened when she would have had to call 911...that and her whole evening of watching movies with TL would have been screwed up.

 

[JWG]

I don't think the paper towels were used on the carpet at all. With the adipocere present on the towels, I believe they were used to clean KC's hands after handling the decomposing body directly. As I've stated before, I believe one of the visits to the Anthony home was to further "bag" Caylee after she began to decompose and her face distort. I think this is when the paper towels were used.

Thanks for making me think a little more, Val. :waitasec:

I had not even thought of the possibility that the towels would be used to wipe her hands. However, it many ways it provides a simpler explanation than does dabbing the stain in the trunk. It is very KC-centered.

That being said, I am still leaning on the side that they were used to dab at the stain. First, I'm pretty sure the trash bag did not end up in the trunk until after the body was removed. The body was removed no later than the 20th, probably as early as the 18th. The trash bag did not end up in the trunk until after the gas can incident on the 24th, and possibly as late as the 27th...its purpose being, IMHO, an odor alibi. :whistle:

Certainly KC could have grabbed some paper towels and wiped her hands, then thrown the towels in the trunk and bagged them a week later. But I tie my theory back to one more piece of evidence - that being the squirrel text to Amy on the 27th. I think the text - while a lie about the cause - is indicative of 10-minute KC believing she had just solved a problem. :idea: In this case, problem solved through a rather lame attempt at cleanup.

 

[Ripley007]

Bolded by me.

Well if it was, they must have had an eerily accurate premonition that they might need to protect KC from a murder charge one day, because the event was relayed by CA to her work colleague long before they knew Caylee was missing.

I was going to ask you for a link to this info, but if I am reading previous posts correctly, you already gave the link. Haven't looked at it yet.
Hmmm...see...this is just adding fuel to my obscure theory, that KC and CA were in a "plot" together to kill George, only Cindy backed out of it and KC, in a fit of rage, took her anger and frustration out on Caylee...hmmm. Of course, after telling KC that she wasn't going to do "it", and then the BIG FIGHT and Caylee never being seen after that...Cindy had a big 'ole Secret. She KNEW KC was already in a murderous state of mind....see where I'm going with this thought?....

 

[sadyjade]

Trying desperately to find the photos of the trash bag (from TL's garbage can, that was in KC's trunk)) and it's contents ... anybody have any hints as to where I can find these. My searches are not yielding much so far *sigh* Reviewing that list and the pics, could help in this discussion.

TIA,
Sady

 

[Valhall]

Thanks for making me think a little more, Val. :waitasec:

I had not even thought of the possibility that the towels would be used to wipe her hands. However, it many ways it provides a simpler explanation than does dabbing the stain in the trunk. It is very KC-centered.

That being said, I am still leaning on the side that they were used to dab at the stain. First, I'm pretty sure the trash bag did not end up in the trunk until after the body was removed. The body was removed no later than the 20th, probably as early as the 18th. The trash bag did not end up in the trunk until after the gas can incident on the 24th, and possibly as late as the 27th...its purpose being, IMHO, an odor alibi. :whistle:

Certainly KC could have grabbed some paper towels and wiped her hands, then thrown the towels in the trunk and bagged them a week later. But I tie my theory back to one more piece of evidence - that being the squirrel text to Amy on the 27th. I think the text - while a lie about the cause - is indicative of 10-minute KC believing she had just solved a problem. :idea: In this case, problem solved through a rather lame attempt at cleanup.

Part of the problem with the "dab on the carpet theory" is that adipocere requires tissue and fibrin (either from blood or muscle) to be created. The stain, as far as we know (and I think we would know otherwise if not) was only, apparently, decomp fluids. Not tissue. But even if it was tissue, it wouldn't be able to "grow" adipocere unless it was a "deep" chunk of tissue that included all the important ingredients for adipocere formulation.

So I don't see anyway the cleaning of the stain on the carpet could result in adipocere on the paper towels. If you find something to contradict my understanding, PLEASE SHARE!!

P.S. I know, I know, I know what I'll get back on this, but I still think the "squirrel" comment refers to when she finally disposed of the body.

 

[Devon]

Woa! How did I miss this important point?! Would you happen to remember if that was in an interview? If so, i can probably locate it. If this is so, then the drowning option is back on the table irrespective of what additional steps it would take. Remember, KC isn't a rocket scientist and the majority of what she would have read would have indicated unconsciousness and POSSIBLE death...the additional steps would have been insurance. The chloroform would have prevented struggling, screams, etc. A chloroformed child held under water would have drowned (lungs full of water)....so cause of death established. My suspicions are an initial plan of reporting accidental drowning and then chickening out...for whatever reason. The flurry of phone calls didn't result in getting to tell mommy, and then she chickened when she would have had to call 911...that and her whole evening of watching movies with TL would have been screwed up.

It's in DB's interview (pages 14/15) here:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=71772&page=6

As for her evening with TL on June 16, he states in one of his later interviews that they had no plans to meet that day. I'm guessing the trip to Blockbuster was an impromptu decision.

 

[Devon]

Part of the problem with the "dab on the carpet theory" is that adipocere requires tissue and fibrin (either from blood or muscle) to be created. The stain, as far as we know (and I think we would know otherwise if not) was only, apparently, decomp fluids. Not tissue. But even if it was tissue, it wouldn't be able to "grow" adipocere unless it was a "deep" chunk of tissue that included all the important ingredients for adipocere formulation.

So I don't see anyway the cleaning of the stain on the carpet could result in adipocere on the paper towels. If you find something to contradict my understanding, PLEASE SHARE!!

P.S. I know, I know, I know what I'll get back on this, but I still think the "squirrel" comment refers to when she finally disposed of the body.

I also am of the belief that the stain on the carpet was the result of either decomp. fluids or purge. I don't recall any of the fatty acids associated with adipocere being identified in the chemical analysis of the stain, but I'll go back and check just to be sure.


ETA. on page 12 of the FBI decomp. report it states that the only VFA detected in the trunk carpet sample was butyric acid which is not one of the acids listed on page 7 as being present on the paper towels. My conclusion - the towels were NOT used to attempt to clean the stain.

 

[Valhall]

It's in DB's interview (pages 14/15) here:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...t=71772&page=6

As for her evening with TL on June 16, he states in one of his later interviews that they had no plans to meet that day. I'm guessing the trip to Blockbuster was an impromptu decision.

Thanks...here is a direct link to the interview

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5057180/Casey-Anthony-Debbie-Bennett-Interview-Released-03-20-09

page 14. According to her statements CA told her about the pool incident within the same week it happened...so "no post reporting fabrication" going on with the pool story.