2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[beach]

Those paper towels and the fact they were found in the trash bag from TL's is HUGE!

 

[TallyHo]

Those paper towels and the fact they were found in the trash bag from TL's is HUGE!

Especially since there were also receipts in that bag - and it will be interesting to see wha the dates on those receipts were. Just imagine if one of them was dated after Zanny supposedly kidnapped Caylee on the 16th and before the 27th when Casey ditched the Pontiac. Oops!

 

[kew17]

So, the THC and cannibis aka "pot" stuff found on the paper towels could come from say, just a roll of paper towels sitting on the kitchen counter in an atmosphere where pot is smoked regularly? Is it absorbed by the towel? Or could it come from maybe a hand using the towel that just smoked a joint? Just curious....I agree the paper towels are a huge find here!

 

[TallyHo]

Page 6557.

Prepare to hear the defense claim that the paper towels were used to clean up grease from bacon, ham, etc. as the report indicates the composition of the 'grave wax' is consistent with human and pig decomposition studies.

Anyone remember MF's 'ham sandwich' comments?

I just stumbled upon a thread here where WSers were talking about Dr. Henry Lee stating that he found ham in the trunk upon his examination of the Pontiac. Here's the link to the thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69646&highlight=contents+trash+bag+trunk&page=11

Sorry - I don't know how to link to a specific post, but there are several posts on this page about Dr. Lee and the ham comments. Very interesting in retrospect!!

 

[RR0004]

Just a theory here.

If you've ever fried bacon, laid it on paper towels, then stuck the whole plate in the fridge, I think you've probably seen something similar to adipocere. The grease on the paper towels solidified, and there are little bubbles of solid fat on the bacon.

If the decomp on the paper towels remained in a moist, somewhat fluid state, due to the heat in the trunk and the presence of VFAs, they could've contributed to the stench.

Now the question is, was the trash bag was in a climate-controlled environment after taken into evidence, even perhaps refrigerated to stop bio activity, and would those conditions and that length of time be enough to solidify the VFAs on the paper towels?

Would an autopsy report the conditions under which the specimen (paper towels) was kept?

 

[Ripley007]

Especially since there were also receipts in that bag - and it will be interesting to see wha the dates on those receipts were. Just imagine if one of them was dated after Zanny supposedly kidnapped Caylee on the 16th and before the 27th when Casey ditched the Pontiac. Oops!

I see absolutely NOTHING interesting in the fact that KC decided to remove trash bags from TonE's apt, and stash them in her trunk...Too little, too late. TonE READILY admitted to LE that the recovered trash in her trunk was from inside of his apartment! Kudos TonE for your honesty! At least one paper reciept found was a credit/debit card receipt from a TL roomate from FUSION. Dated (IIRC) MONTHS before TL ever even knew KC. A LAME attempt at a possible "frame-up" in my mind.

 

[PassTheMotrin]

snipped:



I'm not sure, but I think that may depend upon the fibers and dyes used for the carpet. I once resorted to using bleach on an off-white carpet to try to remove a bright red stain. The bleach had no effect on the stain or the surrounding carpet. (FWIW, I switched to Ritt Dye Remover which removed the stain completely and very slightly lightened the carpet, too)

For what it's worth, I've put bleach in my carpet cleaner and it didn't take out the color, but it took out the stain. (My carpet is beige.)

 

[Ripley007]

I just stumbled upon a thread here where WSers were talking about Dr. Henry Lee stating that he found ham in the trunk upon his examination of the Pontiac. Here's the link to the thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69646&highlight=contents+trash+bag+trunk&page=11

Sorry - I don't know how to link to a specific post, but there are several posts on this page about Dr. Lee and the ham comments. Very interesting in retrospect!!

I passionately followed Phil S first trial. Much to my horror, I came to the relization that HL was NOT credible. Nuff said.

 

[Valhall]

I don't think the paper towels were used on the carpet at all. With the adipocere present on the towels, I believe they were used to clean KC's hands after handling the decomposing body directly. As I've stated before, I believe one of the visits to the Anthony home was to further "bag" Caylee after she began to decompose and her face distort. I think this is when the paper towels were used.

Also, I'm still not convinced the duct tape was put on Caylee antemortem. I'm like 50/50 on that. As I've stated before, I believe Caylee was in the trunk, either in a blanket, the laundry bag or nothing at all, and then she began to decompose - tongue protusion, fluids leaking from her mouth and nose - and then KC had to do something. So she double/triple bagged her, but before she did she taped her nose and mouth up to stop the fluid leakage.

If adipocere had formed by this time, and KC got it on her hands while handling the body, this waxy coating on her fingers could explain why there was no fingerprints on the tape. (There's also a second theory on why there weren't any fingerprints on the tape that have to do with chloroform.)

I still tend to believe that KC chloroformed Caylee for the purpose of drowning her without struggle. And I still tend to believe she didn't tape her mouth shut until she was faced with the horror and fluids of Caylee's decomposing face. I don't believe the multiple pieces of duct tape point to rage at all. I believe they point to panic...and having to handle your murdered child's swelling, rotting face while trying to keep her from seeping all over your trunk would be about as panic-inducing of a situation as it gets...especially when the tape won't stick!

 

[Ripley007]

I don't think the paper towels were used on the carpet at all. With the adipocere present on the towels, I believe they were used to clean KC's hands after handling the decomposing body directly. As I've stated before, I believe one of the visits to the Anthony home was to further "bag" Caylee after she began to decompose and her face distort. I think this is when the paper towels were used.

Also, I'm still not convinced the duct tape was put on Caylee antemortem. I'm like 50/50 on that. As I've stated before, I believe Caylee was in the trunk, either in a blanket, the laundry bag or nothing at all, and then she began to decompose - tongue protusion, fluids leaking from her mouth and nose - and then KC had to do something. So she double/triple bagged her, but before she did she taped her nose and mouth up to stop the fluid leakage.

If adipocere had formed by this time, and KC got it on her hands while handling the body, this waxy coating on her fingers could explain why there was no fingerprints on the tape. (There's also a second theory on why there weren't any fingerprints on the tape that have to do with chloroform.)

I still tend to believe that KC chloroformed Caylee for the purpose of drowning her without struggle. And I still tend to believe she didn't tape her mouth shut until she was faced with the horror and fluids of Caylee's decomposing face. I don't believe the multiple pieces of duct tape point to rage at all. I believe they point to panic...and having to handle your murdered child's swelling, rotting face while trying to keep her from seeping all over your trunk would be about as panic-inducing of a situation as it gets...especially when the tape won't stick!

I totally respect your feelings and opinions. But personally, I don't find KC "smart" enough to have obtained/made/used choroform. Especially when an innocent fluffy pillow was so darn handy.
As far a pool drowning scenerio, IMHO this was a hastey LIE made up by George and Cindy, the whole Late story about noticing the open gate and ladder on what?...the 18th or so? Whatever!
Would a "normal" mother whose child drowned in a pool due to Mom's neglect in watching her, carry a case against herself THIS far? Guessing NO. But a Sociopath....A sociopath by defination could not admit her own wrong-doing/neglect. However, it's all a mute point. Caylee was killed by her own mother in a Legal 1st Degree manner. No doubt in my mind.

 

[Devon]

I don't think the paper towels were used on the carpet at all. With the adipocere present on the towels, I believe they were used to clean KC's hands after handling the decomposing body directly. As I've stated before, I believe one of the visits to the Anthony home was to further "bag" Caylee after she began to decompose and her face distort. I think this is when the paper towels were used.

Also, I'm still not convinced the duct tape was put on Caylee antemortem. I'm like 50/50 on that. As I've stated before, I believe Caylee was in the trunk, either in a blanket, the laundry bag or nothing at all, and then she began to decompose - tongue protusion, fluids leaking from her mouth and nose - and then KC had to do something. So she double/triple bagged her, but before she did she taped her nose and mouth up to stop the fluid leakage.

If adipocere had formed by this time, and KC got it on her hands while handling the body, this waxy coating on her fingers could explain why there was no fingerprints on the tape. (There's also a second theory on why there weren't any fingerprints on the tape that have to do with chloroform.)

I still tend to believe that KC chloroformed Caylee for the purpose of drowning her without struggle. And I still tend to believe she didn't tape her mouth shut until she was faced with the horror and fluids of Caylee's decomposing face. I don't believe the multiple pieces of duct tape point to rage at all. I believe they point to panic...and having to handle your murdered child's swelling, rotting face while trying to keep her from seeping all over your trunk would be about as panic-inducing of a situation as it gets...especially when the tape won't stick!

Bolded by me.

I agree with all of your post except for the part I bolded.

Making chloroform requires care, close attention to the process and use of the right equipment. It has then to be stored with care and in the right conditions. If KC made some, when would she have done it and where would she keep it, for it to be on hand for the 'pre-planned' event, but stored correctly and out of sight of her parents?

Why would she expend all that care, thought and forward planning just to render Caylee unconscious when she could kill her outright with a liberal dosing? If she did use it to knock Caylee out, why then bother carrying her outside, heaving her into the pool, having to climb in later and retrieve an even heavier load and then deal with a dripping wet body? A pillow would be sooooo much easier?

 

[Devon]

I totally respect your feelings and opinions. But personally, I don't find KC "smart" enough to have obtained/made/used choroform. Especially when an innocent fluffy pillow was so darn handy.
As far a pool drowning scenerio, IMHO this was a hastey LIE made up by George and Cindy, the whole Late story about noticing the open gate and ladder on what?...the 18th or so? Whatever!
Would a "normal" mother whose child drowned in a pool due to Mom's neglect in watching her, carry a case against herself THIS far? Guessing NO. But a Sociopath....A sociopath by defination could not admit her own wrong-doing/neglect. However, it's all a mute point. Caylee was killed by her own mother in a Legal 1st Degree manner. No doubt in my mind.

CA mentioned the pool ladder/gate incident to her work colleague DB in June, just a few days after Caylee was last seen, and a long time before she discovered that Caylee was not with KC.

 

[TallyHo]

I see absolutely NOTHING interesting in the fact that KC decided to remove trash bags from TonE's apt, and stash them in her trunk...Too little, too late. TonE READILY admitted to LE that the recovered trash in her trunk was from inside of his apartment! Kudos TonE for your honesty! At least one paper reciept found was a credit/debit card receipt from a TL roomate from FUSION. Dated (IIRC) MONTHS before TL ever even knew KC. A LAME attempt at a possible "frame-up" in my mind.

That's what I was wondering - that date of that receipt. But that late last night my mind was mush and I could neither remember nor find it anywhere here. My point was only that if that receipt had been dated somewhere from June 17 - June 26 and the Mother of the Year threw away adipocere stained paper towels in the same bag, it would indicate that she did so after she said Caylee had been kidnapped and while the car was clearly in her custody. No matter the date of the receipt, by leaving those paper towels in her car she shows that she is just about as intelligent as a box of rocks. I personally think the only reason she took the trash from TonE's was to have an explanation for the smell. I don't think she meant that for a frame up at all, and I certainly don't think TonE was responsible for Caylee's death. I think Jessie was definitely one she wanted to frame, not TonE.

 

[Ripley007]

CA mentioned the pool ladder/gate incident to her work colleague DB in June, just a few days after Caylee was last seen, and a long time before she discovered that Caylee was not with KC.

I didn't know this. IF Caylee died in some tragic acceident scenerio, then WHY is KC sitting in jail right now? Cause she's a sociopath who doesn't possess the ability to admit a single wrong-doing? Boo-hoo.
Still, WHEN would this scenerio have taken place? WHY did GA LIE and say he saw KC and Caylee leave (1:30ish on June 16)? So many questions....

 

[ShadowGal]

CA mentioned the pool ladder/gate incident to her work colleague DB in June, just a few days after Caylee was last seen, and a long time before she discovered that Caylee was not with KC.

Hi there, do you have a link handy to this info? I'm not remembering this. TIA.

 

[Devon]

Hi there, do you have a link handy to this info? I'm not remembering this. TIA.

It's in DB's interview with LE. I'll try and find it.

ETA DB's interview is included here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71772&page=6

The relevant part is on pages 13-14 of the interview. She states that CA mentioned this incident before the day of the gas can theft - so that's prior to June 24.

 

[Ripley007]

That's what I was wondering - that date of that receipt. But that late last night my mind was mush and I could neither remember nor find it anywhere here. My point was only that if that receipt had been dated somewhere from June 17 - June 26 and the Mother of the Year threw away adipocere stained paper towels in the same bag, it would indicate that she did so after she said Caylee had been kidnapped and while the car was clearly in her custody. No matter the date of the receipt, by leaving those paper towels in her car she shows that she is just about as intelligent as a box of rocks. I personally think the only reason she took the trash from TonE's was to have an explanation for the smell. I don't think she meant that for a frame up at all, and I certainly don't think TonE was responsible for Caylee's death. I think Jessie was definitely one she wanted to frame, not TonE.

"Dumb as a box of rocks" is one of my favorite sayings!
See, problem is, there was NOTHING STINKY contained in that TL garbage bag. The Pizza in the box, that Cindy A LIED about on National Tv was in fact an EMPTY Pizza box. Nothing inside of it to reek up a car. NOTHING! A blatent LIE!
As for KC trying to frame others, I agree, putting TL's trash in trunk did absolutely NOTHING to accomplish this goal. Hello, KC is Very Stupid Girl. Right? Speaking of trying to frame someone else, hmmm;we've got KC begging Jessie to let her take a shower at his place one morning for NO aparent reason....
This case reminds me of a typical "Serial Killer" case. A serial killer by defination has NO logic, so therefore, no amount of reasoning can explain/solve their crimes.

 

[TallyHo]

"Dumb as a box of rocks" is one of my favorite sayings!
See, problem is, there was NOTHING STINKY contained in that TL garbage bag. The Pizza in the box, that Cindy A LIED about on National Tv was in fact an EMPTY Pizza box. Nothing inside of it to reek up a car. NOTHING! A blatent LIE!
As for KC trying to frame others, I agree, putting TL's trash in trunk did absolutely NOTHING to accomplish this goal. Hello, KC is Very Stupid Girl. Right? Speaking of trying to frame someone else, hmmm;we've got KC begging Jessie to let her take a shower at his place one morning for NO aparent reason....
This case reminds me of a typical "Serial Killer" case. A serial killer by defination has NO logic, so therefore, no amount of reasoning can explain/solve their crimes.

That bag of trash with nothing stinky in it sure fooled her mother!!

 

[Valhall]

Here is some interesting reading on adipocere.

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/American-Cyclopaedia-V1/Adipocere.html

Note that the adipocere happens at the soft tissue region of the corpse and there must be fat. With Caylee being a little baby-fat person, she would have had plenty:

. First, the body at the time of its burial must be fat. Lean bodies, as a rule, do not undergo the change in question, but only those which arc abundantly supplied with adipose tissue.

It goes on to explain that the adipose tissue is not what turns into adipocere, but it is the transformation of the adipose tissue during decomposition under certain conditions that taints the surrounding soft tissue and causes the creation of adipocere.

Then note from here...

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/American-Cyclopaedia-V1/Adipose-Tissue.html

that adipose tissue typically is present in the following areas of the body:

The adipose tissue is situated principally beneath the skin and over the muscles, particularly those of the abdomen, about the cheeks, in the orbit of the eye, over the buttocks, on the outside of the heart about the origin of the great vessels, over the intestines, where it forms a special layer or distinct curtain called the omentum around the kidneys, and in various places about the inner side of the abdominal walls.

But at the same time, adipocere formation is another data point toward anaerobic decomposition...

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Adipocere

which means that the body had to have been decomposing sans oxygen up to the point it was handled by KC and then the paper towels used. This would go contrary to the idea that Caylee was in the trunk for some period of time "unbagged". OR...it points to KC handling the body more than once after decomposition began (i.e. bagged once???? bagged twice??? etc.)

In this abstract of a research paper on how the method of burial affects the formation of adipocere

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(04)00635-8/abstract

it states that...

...clothing enhances its formation

This book, Death, decay and deconstruction

http://books.google.com/books?id=zA...GhxLAO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

explicitly states that the body does not need to be submerged in water, as earlier writings had suggested, in order for adipocere to form

Adipocere does not, however, require the large volumes of water for its formation that are suggested in many of the earlier writings...The body fats will extract water from the internal tissues...

There's some other interesting points in this last book

Adipocere formed more readily in Ringer's solution than distilled water.

Ringer's solution is defined as

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/504086/Ringers-solution

one of the first laboratory solutions of salts in water
shown to prolong greatly the survival time of excised tissue; it was introduced by the physiologist Sidney Ringer in 1882 for the frog heart. The solution contains sodium chloride, potassium chloride, calcium chloride, and sodium bicarbonate in the concentrations in which they occur in body fluids.

Which would infer that if body fluids are available, they will promote the formation of adipocere.

But also notable is the following observation

It was shown that in the laboratory there was only approximately 20% difference in the rate of adipocere formation in anaerobic conditions over its formation in an aerobic environment.

So while anaerobic conditions will promote adipocere formation, they don't appear to be necessary for its formation.

and finally, another point of stating "coverings" will promote adipocere formation:

The presence of body coverings and damp soil accelerate the process which in this series of cases occurred more readily in uncoffined but clothed bodies.

Now, here's the quandry...

http://books.google.com/books?id=xq...hxLAO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10

But the question arises:--What is the earliest period after death at which, under specially favorable conditions, adipocere may be formed?

Casper says that adipocere is not formed to any extent, according to his experience, under three to four months' submersion in water, and six months' burial in moist earth.

The book goes on to sight 6 weeks at the earliest for adipocere formation.

But more recent research has shown

http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS4630609.htm

Experimental observation of the chemistry of adipocere formation indicated that adipocere can be formed only a few hours after an incidence of death and this continues until the saturation of oleic acid degradation after several weeks. Different time courses were obtained for cadavers immersed in distilled, chlorinated, and saline water, respectively.

Now, in reviewing these writings it is found that the combination of fatty tissue (adipose tissue and soft, fatty tissue) in combination with fibrin promotes adipocere formation. Fibrin accessibility is increased at the point of a wound (i.e. fibrin is part of the hemoglobin, clotting aspects of blood). Since high concentrations of chloroform on the skin can produce open sores, the very exposure to chloroform that could have happened on Caylee's face if KC literally saturated something in order to chloroform Caylee could have led to the promotion of early adipocere formation at the cheek area.

But in addition! The formation of adipocere is dependent on the "hydrolysis [i.e. introducing water into the molecular structure] and hydrogenation [i.e. the introduction of hydrogen into the molecular structure] of lipid fats".

From here...

http://books.google.com/books?id=IN...TD0JUP&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6

we find that using a solvent (i.e. chloroform) facilitates the hydrogenation of fatty acids

In 1914, Maryott already suggested dissolving fatty acids or oil in a solvent, [NOTE: chloroform "defats" skin, that's what causes anywhere from irritation to outright sores depending on the degree of exposure] such as an alcohol, acetone, ether, and petroleum ether, or in solvents that are nowadays regarded as being potentially unhealthy, such as benzene, chloroform...Harrod showed that the rate of hydrogenation can be vastly increased by dissolving the hydrogenation substrate in solvents...because then hydrogen is fully miscible with these solvents. Accordingly, the reaction is no longer limited by the hydrogen transport and, thus, very fast.

In conclusion, I think the formation of adipocere in such a very short time points to the use of chloroform in the area around Caylee's little fatty cheeks.

 

[mindypin]

I don't know, I find it very hard to believe that Casey (or anyone really) could stomach placing duct tape over the mouth of a body so far along in the decomposition process. Never mind this being the body of her deceased child. I don't think that the placement of several layers of duct tape can be spun as some sort of necessary evil to prevent further fluids from escaping or to mask the physical horrors of decomposition (really?) both which it seems would have been profound by this time.

I wondered about that, but I believe the ME's report states that the tape was placed prior to decomposition setting in.