2009.11.06 Forensic Entomology Report Released #2

[ZsaZsa]

I don't have a link, but I am pretty sure the car was picked up by GA in the afternoon, and the white trash bag was recovered by LE later that evening around 10ish. I could be wrong. I would think any length of time over a few minutes would allow insects in the dumpster prior to the white trash bag being place there would be sufficient for at least some of the insects to infest the white trash bag.

They know when these flies infested the bag and it wasn't at the Tow yard.
Read Dr Haskell's report again.

 

[ZsaZsa]

The analysis of the trunk bugs must be in a different report. With this report, we only get detailed info on the trash bag bugs.

IIRC, the trash bag never made it into the dumpster at the tow yard. It was thrown alongside the dumpster. Regardless, the bug life stages inside could be evaluated for age. Expert might say, "No, these flies did not enter the bag while it was sitting next to the dumpster. These entered the bag long before that."

What intrigues me is that large numbers of these flies (in all life stages) were found inside that trash bag. What exactly were they feeding on in there? Was it strictly the residue on the paper towels, or was there some food in the bag? Those maggots could eat bits of discarded foods until there is nothing left to see, yes?

The species of phorid fly that they found is omnivorous. It does not strictly feed on older dead bodies, and will go for food trash including vegetable matter and fruits, juices, etc.

There was no other organic material in that bag. Only Adipocere, from Caylee.

 

[lizzysf]

My recollection is that the bag was tossed over a fence towards a dumpster but didn't actually make it into the dumpster. When recovered by LE, it was still sitting near the dumpster.

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/0926/17567131.pdf

He first tossed it over the fence by the dumpster. When George left, he walked back there and threw the bag INTO the dumpster. Melich came and got it that night. In the AM, Simon Burch thought it may be important...so he got INTO the dumpster which had other trash and dug through it.. couldn't find the bag. He spoke with Melich who told him he came and got it last night.
So..
1. Bag only in the dumpster from mid afternoon until late evening that day
2. It sounds like alot of other garbage in the dumpster (he talks about pickup days too..and digging through the garbage to find the bag)

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

If you read Dr Haskell's report - on Page 7 it mentions the presence of a great many pupae and flies in the trunk, apart from those in the trash bag.
Pupae and adult flies were also seen in the trunk on initial entry on July 16th 08, leading to additional searches for insect evidence. They were everywhere, but if you read the comments regarding the purging of body fluids and the dates where Caylee was most likely to have been removed from the trunk, you will see why the majority were found in the trash bag.

Yep, this is why I was confused as to why I didn't see any samples from the trunk interior. Hot Dogs posted those samples must be in a future report. I hope so

 

[Hot Dogs]

There was no other organic material in that bag.

I understand. I'm saying that the maggots may have entirely consumed any food bits that may have been in the bag. You don't find anything because the little buggers ate it all.

They may have been eating adipocere and pizza bits.

 

[lizzysf]

http://www.wesh.com/download/2008/0926/17567131.pdf

He first tossed it over the fence by the dumpster. When George left, he walked back there and threw the bag INTO the dumpster. Melich came and got it that night. In the AM, Simon Burch thought it may be important...so he got INTO the dumpster which had other trash and dug through it.. couldn't find the bag. He spoke with Melich who told him he came and got it last night.
So..
1. Bag only in the dumpster from mid afternoon until late evening that day
2. It sounds like alot of other garbage in the dumpster (he talks about pickup days too..and digging through the garbage to find the bag)

A very enlightening re-read also...from several of the staff at the towyard..
George telling the woman "I need to see my grandaughter.. our daughter has been telling us all kinds of lies and crap and won't let us see her"...so George admits she's been lying about her whereabouts before they even took the car from the towyard. Not to mention all the concern that the smell was a dead body by both George and towyard staff.

 

[Sundance]

The paper towels used to clean a suspected decomp spill were in the trashbag and the bugs made their way there.

This may not be where this should go, but here are screen captures of Casey at Target on 7/8/08 buying the large size paper towels, and the receipt for them. FWIW of course.

 

[ZsaZsa]

A very enlightening re-read also...from several of the staff at the towyard..
George telling the woman "I need to see my grandaughter.. our daughter has been telling us all kinds of lies and crap and won't let us see her"...so George admits she's been lying about her whereabouts before they even took the car from the towyard. Not to mention all the concern that the smell was a dead body by both George and towyard staff.

Well add to that his desperate prayer as he opened the car "Please don't let this be Caylee or Casey". He knew it was a dead body. No pizza was mentioned in that prayer.

 

[lizzysf]

This may not be where this should go, but here are screen captures of Casey at Target on 7/8/08 buying the large size paper towels, and the receipt for them. FWIW of course.

Possibly.. i'm sure those were for TL's house.. you think she would have tried to clean the odorous spill long before 7/8.... but interesting how the trash bag was from TL's apt...wasn't it? What day was the car towed from Amscot? How long was the car there..was that ever established by any witnesses? (old stuff!)

 

[spqr]

I don't have a link, but I am pretty sure the car was picked up by GA in the afternoon, and the white trash bag was recovered by LE later that evening around 10ish. I could be wrong. I would think any length of time over a few minutes would allow insects in the dumpster prior to the white trash bag being place there would be sufficient for at least some of the insects to infest the white trash bag.

BBM:

Would these insects infest any garbage bag or just bags that contain human remains? (serious ?, not snide). If just human remains, then there was either ANOTHER DEAD BODY in the dumpster for them to originate there.

 

[lizzysf]

Possibly.. i'm sure those were for TL's house.. you think she would have tried to clean the odorous spill long before 7/8.... but interesting how the trash bag was from TL's apt...wasn't it? What day was the car towed from Amscot? How long was the car there..was that ever established by any witnesses? (old stuff!)

I found it...towed on 6/30. She still could have cleaned it in the parking lot at TL's with prior paper towels from TL's and put it in his garbage bag and tossed it in the trunk. Was TL in Orlando 6/30 or was he in NY? He was gone 4th of July, right? But again, she may have cleaned it long before 6/30.. the garbage bag from TL's kind of links the 2 events though.

added:
Had to be before 6/27...Prudence dates car abandoned at Amscot 6/27.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Possibly.. i'm sure those were for TL's house.. you think she would have tried to clean the odorous spill long before 7/8.... but interesting how the trash bag was from TL's apt...wasn't it? What day was the car towed from Amscot? How long was the car there..was that ever established by any witnesses? (old stuff!)

The car was abandoned at Amscot 6/27 and towed from there on 6/30. The shopping trips using Amy's checks could in no way be related to what was found in the trunk.

 

[lizzysf]

The car was abandoned at Amscot 6/27 and towed from there on 6/30. The shopping trips using Amy's checks could in no way be related to what was found in the trunk.

I know.. the purchase of THOSE papertowels is too late (7/8)

 

[TallyHo]

I know.. the purchase of THOSE papertowels is too late (7/8)

She must have been replacing whoever's paper towels she used to clean the trunk. Can you just imagine what must have been going through her mind as she was getting (stealing) those paper towels at Target?????

 

[lizzysf]

I am betting again on dump date being the 24th based on all info. Chances of cleaning the spill probably not until after she dumps the body.. car abandoned 6/27...tells Amy she got rid of the dead squirrel smell the same day. Ento report says dump date June 20-27. Dr. Vass says 2.6 days.. so I am thinking the 26th, 27th is getting a bit too late....it would be closer to the 20th to dovetail reports...but that just isn't the case. There is a discrepancy in reports. Also on the 24th...George described seeing laundry in the trunk...not clothes...what made him assume it was laundry and not just clothes? Cindy says clothes. Why would KC put laundry/clothes in the extremely foul smelling trunk after the body had been in there? It doesn't add up.
LOL..another also..
Simon Burch doesn't mention seeing laundry or clothes in the trunk at the towyard when he takes the garbage bag out..Cindy found clothes in the backseat. Where did the "laundry" go? Why would KC dump the "laundry" George saw, but not the bag of garbage with the paper towels also before dumping the car at Amscot? If the clothes were dumped because they were evidence (ie: soiled)...wouldn't the bag be dumped too? The "laundry" he saw was Caylee in the laundry bag. She didn't even care about evidence when she dumped the car on the 27th..
2.6 days in the trunk did not create a smell like that..which could still be noticed well 2 months later in OCSO's posession. it would make more sense to smell that bad after the 8 days that would correlate with a dump date of the 24th.

 

[Sundance]

I know.. the purchase of THOSE papertowels is too late (7/8)

OOps, sorry. You are so right. Not enough coffee yet today.

My apologies.

 

[magic-cat]

I understand. I'm saying that the maggots may have entirely consumed any food bits that may have been in the bag. You don't find anything because the little buggers ate it all.

They may have been eating adipocere and pizza bits.

Well considering that experiments were conducted using that exact brand of pizza and that the findings were that the pizza simply dried out and became hard? I doubt that was the attraction for the coffin flies, who prefer a moist and rotting buffet.:sick:

 

[Hot Dogs]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaselia_scalaris"]Megaselia scalaris[/ame]

They are common in many areas but thrive predominately in moist unsanitary vicinities such as dumpsters, trash containers, rotting meat, vegetable remains, public washrooms, homes, and sewer pipes. Although referred to as scavengers, adults are known to feed primarily on sugars. The larvae, however, depend on moist decaying plant or animal material and feed on a wide range of additional decaying material.

 

[lizzysf]

Megaselia scalaris

Your siggy just cracks me up btw. It simply and directly lays out the truth.

"Hey guys. I see a skull in here." Roy Kronk, August 11, 2008

 

[BlOnDe_GuRrL]

i asked an expert friend about pheno and this is what i got

Blood chemistry is at two levels, the physical characteristics that sow blood was there such as the presence of hemoglobin, plasma and wbc/rbc, while the hemotype may not be adequate to determine blood type or any DNA / RNA characteristics.
22 minutes ago · Delete

Generally the presence of Pheno is not enough to say for certain that blood is present, there are other ways a body can secrete Pheno such as semen and acne.