2009.11.06 Forensic Entomology Report Released #2

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Sundance said:
This may not be where this should go, but here are screen captures of Casey at Target on 7/8/08 buying the large size paper towels, and the receipt for them. FWIW of course.
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She was probably just trying to get as much as she could with the stolen money. This was long after the car was towed! :)
 
I believe in SB's depo he said there was usually only trash in their dumpster, no garbage. It's a business.
 
panthera said:
She was probably just trying to get as much as she could with the stolen money. This was long after the car was towed! :)
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I know, I know. :redface:

I will not post before coffee.
I will not post before coffee.
I will not post before coffee.
 
LambChop said:
I believe in SB's depo he said there was usually only trash in their dumpster, no garbage. It's a business.
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But the dumpster was outside the fence.. anyone could have used the dumpster.. it may have been mostly trash from the business, like he says.. but doesn't exclude an occasional use by someone else.
 
But trash from the dumpster is not going to crawl into the trash bag. The paper towels with human decomp were in the trash bag. I don't see any way the defense could argue the decomp came from the dumpster. And it doesn't matter where the flies came from, only what attracted them to the bag in the first place, right?
 
Dear Prudence said:
But trash from the dumpster is not going to crawl into the trash bag. The paper towels with human decomp were in the trash bag. I don't see any way the defense could argue the decomp came from the dumpster. And it doesn't matter where the flies came from, only what attracted them to the bag in the first place, right?
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I agree...it is sooo unlikely...but will the defense try to convince otherwise?
 
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Burch Simon-0724.pdf

link to Simon Burch interview with LE in which he states that when he and GA opened up the trunk, "...there was flies and stuff and a real bad smell, like oh my God."
Begin end of pdf page 7, quote is line 1 page 8

IIRC at one time GA even made the remark that he could hear the maggots munching they were that loud (many)
 
I wouldn't be surprised if LE had SB's fingerprints on the bag and had him identify the bag as being the exact one he took from the truck and threw into the dumpster. There wasn't a large time lag from the time he dumped the trash bag until JAllen retrieved it. Besides, there was TL's receipt and other things that identify KC in it and she had control of it, other than the paper towels.

JB doesn't want to challenge that one.
 
Dear Prudence said:
But trash from the dumpster is not going to crawl into the trash bag. The paper towels with human decomp were in the trash bag. I don't see any way the defense could argue the decomp came from the dumpster. And it doesn't matter where the flies came from, only what attracted them to the bag in the first place, right?
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The lot attendant also mentioned dead fish, steak etc. in his invterview, it is likely that type of trash was thrown in the dumpster. The defense isn't going to say the decomp infested the bag, they are going to say insects from that dumpster infested the bag. The paper towels with whatever decomp was on it was in the bag while the bag was in the dumpster, which would attract insects from the dumpster. That is why, in my opinion LE needs to test bugs from the trunks interior, those bugs did not and could not have intermingled with bugs in the white trash bag that was in or near the dumpster. Someone posted that those bug reports will likely be coming in a future dump doc. I hope so.
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
The lot attendant also mentioned dead fish, steak etc. in his invterview, it is likely that type of trash was thrown in the dumpster. The defense isn't going to say the decomp infested the bag, they are going to say insects from that dumpster infested the bag. The paper towels with whatever decomp was on it was in the bag while the bag was in the dumpster, which would attract insects from the dumpster. That is why, in my opinion LE needs to test bugs from the trunks interior, those bugs did not and could not have intermingled with bugs in the white trash bag that was in or near the dumpster. Someone posted that those bug reports will likely be coming in a future dump doc. I hope so.
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The Adicpocere is what was infested with coffin flies,inside the bag, where the paper towels were- are you saying there was another dead body in the dumpster that they came from ?
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
I have a question. TIA for anyone who can answer it for me. All the samples sent to the bug guy were samples from the trash bag in the trunk, at least all the samples I could find. Were there any samples sent to the bug guy that were actually from the trunk itself? If so, does anyone have the page number on the report? The reason I am asking is that I find it odd that all the samples were from the white trash bag.
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Yes, Dr. Haskell investigated the actual trunk in December and samples were found and collected.

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21539770.pdf Pages 1 & 7 specifically says eggs, maggots, cases and some adults were found in the Pontiac trunk and in the white trash bag.

The report is a little confusing because more than one collection of bugs was sent to Dr. Haskell. But if you reread the report, samples were FIRST collected from the trunk. Later, Dr. Haskell requested adult flies. OSCO went back to the trunk and looked for adult flies. None could be found in the trunk. Then OSCO remembered the garbage that had been sealed since August. OSCO went to the trash bag, collected bug samples from the trash and another collectiton of bugs was sent to Dr. Haskell.
 
i wonder if she was buried by the pool first.. and thats where the coffin flies came from.. THEN after the body was put in the trunk.. they got in there... then after she was removed from the trunk, the coffin flies remaining in the trunk went after the paper towels?
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
The lot attendant also mentioned dead fish, steak etc. in his invterview, it is likely that type of trash was thrown in the dumpster. The defense isn't going to say the decomp infested the bag, they are going to say insects from that dumpster infested the bag. The paper towels with whatever decomp was on it was in the bag while the bag was in the dumpster, which would attract insects from the dumpster. That is why, in my opinion LE needs to test bugs from the trunks interior, those bugs did not and could not have intermingled with bugs in the white trash bag that was in or near the dumpster. Someone posted that those bug reports will likely be coming in a future dump doc. I hope so.
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He mentioned when people leave doggies bags in their cars, with steak or fish.there can be a smell, but there was none in Casey's car. He compares the smell in Casey's car as being similar to the smell when a guy was found to have committed suicide in his car and his body was not discovered immediately.
 
I don't believe Caylee was buried anywhere. If LE thought that, they would have had the yard dug for bug and decomp evidence. In the released docs, they dug down pretty deep to get the generations of bug evidence where Caylee's remains were found.

Yes, the dogs hit in places where Caylee was placed after she was murdered, yet not necessarily buried. Someone else mentioned the Yorkies. They would have been right at the spot, digging themselves. I don't believe there is any released evidence this occurred.

KC might have thought to do it but in the end, was simply too lazy.
 
thedeviledadvocate said:
The lot attendant also mentioned dead fish, steak etc. in his invterview, it is likely that type of trash was thrown in the dumpster. The defense isn't going to say the decomp infested the bag, they are going to say insects from that dumpster infested the bag. The paper towels with whatever decomp was on it was in the bag while the bag was in the dumpster, which would attract insects from the dumpster. That is why, in my opinion LE needs to test bugs from the trunks interior, those bugs did not and could not have intermingled with bugs in the white trash bag that was in or near the dumpster. Someone posted that those bug reports will likely be coming in a future dump doc. I hope so.
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Do you think the SA needs the flies to prove there was decomp in the car? They have so many sources saying the smell was like a dead body.George said it.Cindy said it.Experienced LE said it.The cadaver dogs hit on the trunk. The jury will be able to smell it for themselves.KC abandoned the car and didn't report Caylee missing .Caylee was found dead .She was last seen in that car.Do you think the SA won't be able to convince a jury that Caylee's decomp was in the car without flies?
IMO ,as I said before, the defense runs the risk of insulting the intelligence of the jury if they try to claim that was not Caylee's decomp in the car,flies,or no flies.
 
I think the point about the bugs/flies is not just to prove that there was body in the trunk, but to prove how long it was there. Kind of helping to estimate the time of death and/or the time the body was dumped, perhaps.
 
gitana1 said:
I think the point about the bugs/flies is not just to prove that there was body in the trunk, but to prove how long it was there. Kind of helping to estimate the time of death and/or the time the body was dumped, perhaps.
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all 3! :)
 
Hot Dogs said:
I understand. I'm saying that the maggots may have entirely consumed any food bits that may have been in the bag. You don't find anything because the little buggers ate it all.

They may have been eating adipocere and pizza bits.
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No pizza. That was a rumor started by Cindy. George and Simon (from the tow yard) might have thought there was pizza because they saw pieces of pizza box and because of the maggots. But, there was no pizza.


Inventory of Trash in vehicle: http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20321119/detail.html

Pictures of the trash: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20320624/detail.html
 
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