2009.11.19 Defense files motion suggesting Kronk as the killer. #3

[Just Jayla]

How was the other duct tape child predator in the area linked to his victims? Not at all. He just trolled neighborhoods, entered, taped them up, took them from their beds, took items from their bedrooms, and took them into the garage, etc. The perp wouldn't need to have a connection with the victim, plenty of abductions/murders of children are committed by strangers, for no "motive" per se. And we do know there were occasions when Casey reportedly had the garage door standing open, and the backyard gate was found open, etc. If an opportunistic child predator was nearby....(I don't mean RK necessarily, of course.)



But if Casey's statements are all lies/untruths (as is often claimed) or delusions/confused thinking for that matter, why would her own statements necessarily show when RK could have accessed Caylee? Why couldn't RK or anyone have accessed Caylee any time Casey was home with her picking up food, gas cans, or whatever. For example when she was there with TL and Caylee? Or maybe accessed Caylee from the car at some point, somewhere in the neighborhood if Casey had stopped her car somewhere. Or what if Casey had left Caylee in the neighborhood somewhere or she had wandered from the home?

I'm still not sure if the reason Casey didn't report was because the perp was someone she knew and didn't want to send to prison (or she thought it was), or because she was just out of touch with reality, for medical or mental health reasons, or because she was the perp. The fact she didn't report seems at least on the surface to point more to the perp being someone she knew, (whether someone she didn't want to send to prison or someone she was afraid to rat out), or her thinking it was someone she knew, or that maybe she took part in the disposal or some other surrounding crime so felt she could no longer report. (Or of course if she herself is the perp.) Though I can't rule out abduction by a stranger either.

Thanks, at least you answered!....even if we don't agree all possibilities, I can see where you are going with it
Your possible scenario re: her state of mind would require, I think, for KC to be very delusional, especially in light of the drama that ensued on July 16th into the 17th with LE.
This is not impossible, she did state to AD that she was hallucinating (I am using that loosely) about BrandonS. But then, we have to look at any evidence suggesting premeditation.

 

[seagull65]

bbm~
Seagull, to be honest we don't know any such thing. We can assume or have our opinions of course, but we do not have any way of knowing that IMHO. .. As far as KC's muddled thoughts, mental deterioration or blankness as you put it, if that were the case WHY did that only apply to 'Caylee'? She seemed to know exactly what she was saying and doing while straight out lying to George and Cindy for that 31 days. How would you explain that away?

Yes, why so weird and "blank" about Caylee in particular? Why could she seem to hardly remember Caylee? Now she made many, many strange claims to Cindy during the time frame, which could definitely support the theory that she had experienced some kind of mental trauma or break with reality in general, or was delusional during the time period, had misperceptions and untrue ideas, etc.
Again I've never stated the theory of Casey's mental deterioration as fact, only as one theory. Unlike many claims we do see made here about Casey, the A's, and even the defense team on a regular basis, stated as if they were fact!

 

[seagull65]

Many, many years ago I was driving my car with four passengers. We had a head-on collision with a truck resulting in multiple severe and life-threatening injuries. All four of us adults remembered the accident in a different way. (Our infant could have probably given the best account!!!) All of the measurements of tire marks etc at the scene proved that the truck was at fault. Even though I was the driver I wasn't sure of everything that happened and in what sequence. Neither was anyone else.

So it is no surprise to me that Kronk would get a lot of things wrong. Even though it wasn't quite as traumatic as a car accident, it must have had some trauma connect to it nonetheless! I can easily excuse his inconsistencies for this reason alone.

I agree. And I would say this goes for Casey as well as RK equally. Either could have been affected by some kind of trauma. In Casey's case, if it had to do with Caylee being taken or killed, so much greater the trauma, obviously.

I'm sorry to hear about your accident.

 

[Just Jayla]

Yes, why so weird and "blank" about Caylee in particular? Why could she seem to hardly remember Caylee? Now she made many, many strange claims to Cindy during the time frame, which could definitely support the theory that she had experienced some kind of mental trauma or break with reality in general, or was delusional during the time period, had misperceptions and untrue ideas, etc.
Again I've never stated the theory of Casey's mental deterioration as fact, only as one theory. Unlike many claims we do see made here about Casey, the A's, and even the defense team on a regular basis, stated as if they were fact!

You should ask for links or references if you see that-even if you don't get an answer, the rest of us can see the request and weigh the credibility.

 

[seagull65]

I have to ask...Where are you hearing this and HOW in the world do we have any idea what TonE's accent is? Or how Casey spoke normally, as far as I know we really haven't heard her speak at all except in the jailhouse tapes and phone calls. TIA!

from the taped audio interviews, Pondering. :waitasec:

Casey is not from New Jersey or New York. You hear it come out in a few words. Most likely picked up from Tony L or friends of his since she'd been staying with them so much.

Also wondered who she picked up the syntax from in that one statement

"It's for me not practical." (That one not from Tony L, I wouldn't think.)

 

[Just Jayla]

Even though the RK angle is not something I think AL is using in earnest for trial (I believe this muddying is aimed ultimately at the penalty phase based on AL's recent dissertation on penalty phase prep), the state now has to play ball on this issue. They should be in a position to eliminate the RK issue from the playing field, no matter what the defense's intentions are.
They had to do so with JG...

Back in the spring, the defense asked for RK's cell records, and later were granted a limited scope of those records, to be able to determine whether or not KC had contact with RK. I do not remember having seen RK's cell phone records yet, and wonder if the defense ever bothered to pull them. If they did, do they have phone record discovery to pass over to the state?

I acknowledge there are other theories here, but wouldn't the defense try to connect KC to RK through his phone, or, going with one of Seagull's possibilities, at least use RK's ping map to put him near Caylee on June 16th?

Are the phone records that were granted to the defense sealed?

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crim...jects-to-Jose-Baezs-request-for-phone-records

 

[seagull65]

what a shame he probably wasn't the texting queen that Casey was But still.

 

[ecs5298]

I agree. And I would say this goes for Casey as well as RK equally. Either could have been affected by some kind of trauma. In Casey's case, if it had to do with Caylee being taken or killed, so much greater the trauma, obviously.

I'm sorry to hear about your accident.

Yes, I can see just how deeply traumatized she is in these pictures.

 

[Pondering Mind]

How was the other duct tape child predator in the area linked to his victims? Not at all. He just trolled neighborhoods, entered, taped them up, took them from their beds, took items from their bedrooms, and took them into the garage, etc. The perp wouldn't need to have a connection with the victim, plenty of abductions/murders of children are committed by strangers, for no "motive" per se. And we do know there were occasions when Casey reportedly had the garage door standing open, and the backyard gate was found open, etc. If an opportunistic child predator was nearby....(I don't mean RK necessarily, of course.)



But if Casey's statements are all lies/untruths (as is often claimed) or delusions/confused thinking for that matter, why would her own statements necessarily show when RK could have accessed Caylee? Why couldn't RK or anyone have accessed Caylee any time Casey was home with her picking up food, gas cans, or whatever. For example when she was there with TL and Caylee? Or maybe accessed Caylee from the car at some point, somewhere in the neighborhood if Casey had stopped her car somewhere. Or what if Casey had left Caylee in the neighborhood somewhere or she had wandered from the home?

I'm still not sure if the reason Casey didn't report was because the perp was someone she knew and didn't want to send to prison (or she thought it was), or because she was just out of touch with reality, for medical or mental health reasons, or because she was the perp. The fact she didn't report seems at least on the surface to point more to the perp being someone she knew, (whether someone she didn't want to send to prison or someone she was afraid to rat out), or her thinking it was someone she knew, or that maybe she took part in the disposal or some other surrounding crime so felt she could no longer report. (Or of course if she herself is the perp.) Though I can't rule out abduction by a stranger either.

Hi seagull. Although there are quite a few points in this response to Just Jayla and your response to my previous post that I respectfully but totally disagree with you on, after a super duper long work day, I'm too tired to respond tonite but I do have a couple of questions~
In short, are you saying that in your mind it is in the realm of possibility that KC and RK crossed paths at some point (at least long enough for him to get his hands on Caylee) but KC 'knew' him somehow and didn't want to send him to prison or she was afraid to rat him out, so she kept quiet for 31 days and partied instead and to this day may be protecting him for what reason??? Is Roy Kronk a danger to the Anthony's at this point in time? So KC, being the dutiful and loyal child that she is will take the fall for RK so that he won't .....do what?

seagull, I know I got a little dramatic there :angel:, those were not your words, but can you not understand how to some that sounds so ...very highly unlikely would be the best way to put it. I would have to imagine the odds of me hitting the lottery are better than RK being guilty and I haven't played in years cause I never, ever win zilch. No scientific link to back that up :crazy:, just MHO..

Kronks ex sounds about as credible as KC imo. She wants to please JB so badly it was painful to listen to her take the silliest thing and twist it into something nefarious. Like the Dungeons and Dragons thing, that is SO common for people who do like that kind of thing (I'm not one of them tho :crazy to be absolutely obsessed with it. She makes it sound so evil, lol. My son used to play something similar..Everquest, and we used to do battle over him getting off of his computer quite often. He said it was called it ever-crack because it was so addicting. It's more common for adults to play than teens I believe, IIRC Lee was into one of the role playing games as well, besides his very obvious Jedi obsession of course....As far as the duct tape goes...IF that is even true, something tells me that could have been a little hanky panky that she made to fit the bill. I totally got the impression that it never entered her mind that RK could have anything to do with Caylee's murder until JB put that little bug in her ear...just pondering on my part. But if she did, what was the hold up in making a call to LE?

Last, but not least for tonight as far as KC blanking out or mixing the past and the present etc. while I am all for giving someone the benefit of doubt, I, myself can not and will not make excuses for KC in that regard. We have seen nothing IMO to even come close to appearing that she didn't know what she was doing. IF she had a mental issue of some sort it wouldn't just apply to what happened to Caylee and nothing else. Besides she had no trouble remembering, she was just LYING, plain and simple imo. Her friends did say that they didn't know this person, but I'm not sure that they didn't mean that they didn't know 'this KC' because EVERYTHING she had told them about herself was a LIE, not that they didn't think she could have/would have harmed Caylee because in fact IIRC most of them said later that they thought that she probably had done just that. Nope, no passes from me and many others I'm afraid, while I certainly don't hold Cindy and George responsible for Caylee's death, I most definitly believe that she was given free passes all her life and that helped to shape her into the person who took Caylee's life AND believes that she will get away with it. <<< all of that is nothing more than jMho....

Have a good night seagull and everyone, it's WAY past time for bed for me... I feel like I need toothpicks to hold my eyes open!

 

[Pondering Mind]

Yes, I can see just how deeply traumatized she is in these pictures.

Awful isn't it? If it wasn't so tragic it would be comical what the defense would have the "public" to believe.

 

[Pondering Mind]

from the taped audio interviews, Pondering. :waitasec:

Casey is not from New Jersey or New York. You hear it come out in a few words. Most likely picked up from Tony L or friends of his since she'd been staying with them so much.

Also wondered who she picked up the syntax from in that one statement

"It's for me not practical." (That one not from Tony L, I wouldn't think.)

I guess I've never really heard KC speak other than to screech at Cindy, Lee or George and of course the interviews from the very beginning, but they were very short answers for the most part. I just got the impression then that she was trying to sound sophisticated, using words out of context and such. But then I've heard the rest of the A's do that, sooooo...(as KC et al would say.) Hou ever noticed how they always leave a sentence hanging with sooooo..I guess that's when they don't want to answer and let 'us' fill in the blanks, lol!) ...I really, really am gone now.. Nite All!

 

[RR0004]

from the taped audio interviews, Pondering. :waitasec:

Casey is not from New Jersey or New York. You hear it come out in a few words. Most likely picked up from Tony L or friends of his since she'd been staying with them so much.

Also wondered who she picked up the syntax from in that one statement

"It's for me not practical." (That one not from Tony L, I wouldn't think.)

I am from that area...can you link Casey's remarks and I'll take a listen?

PS- also have a "speech/language" background

 

[seagull65]

But that's exactly the point ECS, why would she still be cooking for TL and doing promotions for him and be completely nonchalant and unconcerned about Caylee as if she were with a sitter? You do know that's what she was doing there, right? Doing a dance she didn't want to do and had to "pound shots" to enable herself to do, for Tony L's promotion. She said in texts she would never do it again, they would have to get someone else next time. It's true that it's clear from her texts and so on from the time frame that she was unconcerned about Caylee, as if Caylee was just with a friend or sitter. If she'd killed Caylee why wouldn't she call LE and put on a distressed act and say something like "we were walking in a parking lot and I looked around and she was gone!" or "A stranger grabbed Caylee from me at the park", or whatever. Something that couldn't be checked out. If she killed Caylee, why would she even be in town? etc

 

[RR0004]

Yes, why so weird and "blank" about Caylee in particular? Why could she seem to hardly remember Caylee? Now she made many, many strange claims to Cindy during the time frame, which could definitely support the theory that she had experienced some kind of mental trauma or break with reality in general, or was delusional during the time period, had misperceptions and untrue ideas, etc.
Again I've never stated the theory of Casey's mental deterioration as fact, only as one theory. Unlike many claims we do see made here about Casey, the A's, and even the defense team on a regular basis, stated as if they were fact!

Bless you, Seagull for having such an open heart.

I struggled with the reality of a mother doing this to their child. But, I have known sociopaths and what they're capable of. No affect is not uncommon. Too much of her behavior can be attributed to sociopathy IMO. Not pretty, but it explains a lot.

 

[seagull65]

I am from that area...can you link Casey's remarks and I'll take a listen?

PS- also have a "speech/language" background

me too (language background, that is)

Just a matter of opinion but I always thought I heard a couple of pronunciations or patterns here and there that she'd picked up from someone else (i.e. not like her parents, or the rest of her speech), as well as certain phrasings. I don't have a list of them but you may spot some, here are a couple of the interviews. (Only slightly from time to time. For example at this link when she says "ay" in words like "day". Usually she seems to pronounce the long "a" differently, tending a bit toward an "ee".) Overall her own accent is pretty neutral, just a few little idiosyncratic twists like her use of "" instead of "st" etc. But, I think that's one spot, where she's talking about how Caylee wouldn't be upset no matter if she hadn't seen her all day, at the beginning of that one link there, she uses a different "ay".
Anyway, not anything important, but if anyone was wanting to listen to some interviews again here are a couple
Casey [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQaBs6S4ZTA[/ame]
Tony L and Cameron C [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjolv3153hA[/ame]
She didn't manage to pick up his short a, that's for sure. ) or his "aw".

woops why did it post big youtube boxes instead of just the url links..... sorry! I won't post the one of Nate L then, too.

 

[seagull65]

Bless you, Seagull for having such an open heart.

I struggled with the reality of a mother doing this to their child. But, I have known sociopaths and what they're capable of. No affect is not uncommon. Too much of her behavior can be attributed to sociopathy IMO. Not pretty, but it explains a lot.

Doesn't rule out someone else being a sociopath, right?

But I know what you mean about her affect. Of course the Fusian pics were still early, it's possible she still thought Caylee was safe at that time. She might not have known something was wrong yet. Or she might already have seen or found out something too horrible to comprehend and had retreated into some kind of fantasy/denial. Or she could have been under the influence of more than the shots she pounded that night, Cameron C told how they had been encouraging her to smoke more than she was used to, was there anything else? Not that we know of but...who knows?

One thing that's interesting to me is that her history and MO are very nonviolent. She was actually a pretty health and safety conscious (her health, Caylee's, her friends' health, etc) type of person apparently. She had never shown any violence toward Caylee and she was affectionate toward her. According to all accounts Caylee wanted to be held by her all the time, they were very bonded. All the friends said she would never have harmed Caylee, nor would she go around with Caylee missing and just not care. That that would be completely opposite of her character. So I think it would have to be a radical change of personality. Not that that's out of the question. And I wonder how exactly that would occur. I can't dismiss the possibility of more than one personality being involved, to be honest. Some kind of break or dissociation. But anyway, I digress. Sorry

I know I had a sweet cousin growing up, she was a gentle person, who when she was a young adult, well maybe about 19, was introduced to drugs, and soon after that her beautiful baby son was found bruised, abandoned, and hungry in her apartment-- she'd gone off with whatever guy was providing her the drug and abandoned her baby. Luckily the landlord alerted her parents and the baby was adopted by the grandparents and was fine. Anyway, obviously drugs could cause a radical personality change like that, but we don't know of Casey suddenly starting to use heavy drugs or anything.... so what could cause her to suddenly change into a person who would murder Caylee, and in that way? With the horrible taping and so on. I wonder. Sorry, wrong thread for all that. OK, back to RK.

 

[seagull65]

Yes, I can see just how deeply traumatized she is in these pictures.

What does a deeply traumatized person look like?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

What does a deeply traumatized person look like?

On planet Earth they would look like someone not dancing in hooker-boots, laughing and drinking when their 2 year old daughter has been 'kidnapped' by a nanny. You're kidding, right, I mean seriously...What's next "what does someone who is looking for clues about their missing daughter at Fusian look like"? :banghead:

 

[Kentjbkent]

Even though the RK angle is not something I think AL is using in earnest for trial (I believe this muddying is aimed ultimately at the penalty phase based on AL's recent dissertation on penalty phase prep), the state now has to play ball on this issue. They should be in a position to eliminate the RK issue from the playing field, no matter what the defense's intentions are.They had to do so with JG...

ABOVE SNIPPED:

(I posted this on another thread as a question for our legal analyst, but am reposting here as it pertains to allegations against Kronk by his ex-wife)

Regarding the credibility of Jill Kerley's claims of being duct taped by Mr, Kronk, do you think this posting by "Darlene", purportedly the mother of Jill Kerley, written and posted online on August 10, 2009 (BEFORE Kronk became defense suspect per motions filed) will affect the credibility of Jill Kerley's claims?

She states her daughter, Jill Renee Kerley, has past done jail time, was also arrested this year and faces court for same at time of writing the letter (Aug 10, 2009), was recently diagnosed as Bipolar , has cancer, and apparently writes bad checks too.

Thoughts on her "prior bad acts" and how they will weigh against alleged "prior bad acts" of Kronks as far as credibility goes?

I think SA would be easily able to verify details alleged by Darlene, purported mother of Jill Kersey



http://www.forallthewaysyoucare.com/...83096245393720
(user ID for Darlene)

http://www.forallthewaysyoucare.com/view_story/?storyid=4726418206195651796&viewmode=true#

(posting by Darlene on mental status of Jill Kersey)

He was married on October 3, 1992 to a Jill Renee Kerley in Monroe County, FL. Law enforcement is keeping Mr. Kronk under wraps while they investigate their ...
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/unio...N2OG6UJI8/p671

 

[The World According]

I believe that the able lawyers for the state will again mop the floor with these motions.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae5J_ObjkTw[/ame]