2009.11.19 Defense files motion suggesting Kronk as the killer. #3

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Seagull - with all due respect...if KC has a mental illness then why in heavens name wouldn't JB plead her out on some type of diminished capacity? It would spare her life. But instead he keeps up the charade of SODDI. He (and she, too, for all we know) would rather go all the way to the electric chair, all the while gaining priceless publicity (i.e., cha-ching)...
I agree that KC seems either looney tunes, or just a plain and simple pathalogical liar. But it boggles the mind why she and her legal team will not take the route that would simply spare her life.
 
I find all of this quite odd and so fishy. After all, wasn't it reported by a member of the Padilla team that their fearless leader was still communicating with JB? What is up with that. Has anyone heard anything else about the other Padilla that posted here?

Good point!

LP receives a cease and desist letter (basically) from RK attorney in Feb 09 in response to allegations LP is making in media against RK (conspiracy theory, daisy chain, etc)

In Sept, TP states on this forum several times that LP is in daily contact with Dominic Casey and Jose.

Baez "private investigator" digs up allegations against RK and files motion...


Yep, I expect we will once again see LP grace the screen of our local TV!

(and ithis motion most likely to be the "big news" alluded to by TP back in September)
 
I tend to agree, it was one thing to do the motion and take this path against RK but completely another to not only attach videos of RK's ex-wives but also schedule an intense series of media appearances to coincide.

This was very calculated and very devious. It has a key point and timing.

The plan and motion was preset ahead of RK's depo because it takes time to setup and the trigger was pulled on the motion before RK started/completed his depo.

Also note that the Defense have NEVER done a media campaign of this scale and JB even faced off with JVM for a prolonged session, even though it was still soft ball.

If this is just a spaghetti defense and RK is just one of the targets then the Defense risked a lot and expended a lot on this.

I am intrigued by the daisy chain and that DC is desperate given his searches and involvement that classically points back to CA/LA and KC as the source.

This is BIG, this is very BIG yet the connection of RK is very very weak to Caylee -- so its an act of desperation for either something that is going down soon or to seek a better plea deal.

Something smells and it smells bad. How is Strickland going to view this premature stunt -- the backlash on many blogs is very negative so the cost was definitely worth it to them.


I agree with you, Cyberborg but can't help but wonder if this is somehow related to DC? DC is/was apparently employed by Jose, was at the remains location and seems to be continually trying to dodge a depo. Just can't help but wonder if one small part of this motion business is to place the spotlight directly on Kronk in an effort to keep DC in the dark?

BTW...can someone refresh my mind as to how DC originally got involved in this case? Did CA/GA seek HIM out, or did he pop up soliciting his services?
 
I really don't think that parsing his statements or opportunistic comments from disgruntled relatives have any direct relevance on whether RK is a viable murder suspect. The connective tissue just isn't there, imo.

What is however strange is WHY RK picked that place in the first place. If it could be shown that RK got a tip with the coordinates, it will mess things up for the defense. Accidental death is not likely to fly given the other circumstances and behavior.

The only truly weird thing is perhaps RK got a tip on where to look. That would certainly lead straight back to the person responsible, and despite the fact that RK's ex hates him enough to say so, there is no evidence that puts him there where a live Caylee disappeared, only after she was all tiny scattered bones. The last person to see Caylee alive was her mother. She cannot or won't explain it reasonably. Even RK's slightly hinky story about why he looked there pales compared to the ridiculous Imaginanny fiction KC gave LE about why Caylee "disappeared" in the first place. That silly girl wouldn't spend 18 months in jail covering for a meter man she didn't know.

OH! And let's remember last year around this time - before the body was found - JB was promising us a story that would SHOCK us. If RK had been a murder suspect we would have heard it from the defense before he found Caylee.

I believe he did receive a tip/tips. The same tip/tips we received back in late July/early August.

Tip # 1 - KC statement in jail recording that she believed Caylee was "close to home"

Tip # 2 - Friend statement (Kiomarie?) that told LE about the location on Suburban being a favorite of KC's to bury pets and a spot frequented by her in the past.

Heck, even WE speculated back then as to whether or not KC could have possibly disposed of Caylee's body at that location (based on "tips" above)

So why is it so unusual that Kronk/David Dean and other meter reader could have been speculating the same thing?
 
I think her bizarre "blank" regarding Caylee, as well as her urgency in wanting only to talk to TL with no concern or urgency about Caylee at all (and not faking like she was concerned about Caylee either) is very interesting. Also the way in her interviews she seems to have even taken on a bit of Tony's accent at times. As well as her saying she'd spoken to Caylee that day (but what she describes actually sounds like that video, with Caylee and her book, like she's mixing up her memory of watching that video vs. talking to Caylee on the phone?), and her saying that the friend she confided in about Caylee being missing was Juliet Lewis (like the movie actress?). And her confusing past and current events such as a job that she had in 2006, walking all the way up to the door with LE before they confronted her with it and said this isn't true. Her continually telling LE things that would be found out to be false immediately, obviously not doing herself any service. Her changing stories about what happened and not seeming to realize this destroys her credibility, seeming to believe both stories equally and repeating them in an almost mechanical fashion. I think all of these things are very interesting and could be very significant. I hope the defense get to the bottom of it but I'm not so sure. Maybe Baez thinks she's guilty so hasn't pressed for information from her. What if he's wrong. Hope they had thorough medical/mental examination of her done. The one lawyer who left the case said she suffers from mental illness.

But she didn't fake the phone call, she just said it happened, obviously they found out immediately it wasn't true. The same with all the things she told them that were not true.

Quite a few of KC's friends testified she was a world-class liar and had been for years. JG called it diabolical. Annie said it interfered with their friendship (which she said had been dormant for a year). Her infrequent babysitter Lauren stopped watching Caylee when she found out KC lied. Kio mentioned it, IIRC. LA mused to AL that he wasn't sure why KC continuously told lies, even when unnecessary. Clearly her lying goes back to well before Caylee was even born; her failure to graduate as simply one example that has come to light.

I tend to concur with the experts here who have basically come to the consensus that KC may have had a severe personality disorder like BPD or sociopathy, as her speech and behavior are consistent, but shows no signs of any true mental illness.

Trying to make this something that happened recently in her life does not match the descriptions people give who have known her a long time.
 
Good point!

LP receives a cease and desist letter (basically) from RK attorney in Feb 09 in response to allegations LP is making in media against RK (conspiracy theory, daisy chain, etc)

In Sept, TP states on this forum several times that LP is in daily contact with Dominic Casey and Jose.

Baez "private investigator" digs up allegations against RK and files motion...


Yep, I expect we will once again see LP grace the screen of our local TV!

(and ithis motion most likely to be the "big news" alluded to by TP back in September)

AS much as I like Leonard, he does like to lay claim to all the inside information- which, if his nephew TP is to believed - is often exaggerated.
I never forget that he thought he understood the 'real Casey' when he first bonded her out- and we know how that worked out.
 
I believe he did receive a tip/tips. The same tip/tips we received back in late July/early August.

Tip # 1 - KC statement in jail recording that she believed Caylee was "close to home"

Tip # 2 - Friend statement (Kiomarie?) that told LE about the location on Suburban being a favorite of KC's to bury pets and a spot frequented by her in the past.

Heck, even WE speculated back then as to whether or not KC could have possibly disposed of Caylee's body at that location (based on "tips" above)

So why is it so unusual that Kronk/David Dean and other meter reader could have been speculating the same thing?

True, but the odd thing is that, despite other people searching the general area (JW and DC come to mind immediately), that was a lot of ground to cover. RK went immediately to the spot; he didn't spend a half an hour or so combing through things. Even DC, who obviously had the pavers and bags in his description and spent two days searching, didn't come near it.

If it is not a coincidence that RK went immediately to the correct location and was able to return there several months later, then I am assuming the "tip" was very specific in nature (just like the "three pavers" tip DC acted on) and probably came from the same source - an Anthony and not a psychic. If that is the case, then DC has some real 'splainin' to do. I would hazard a guess this is why JB & Co. are pulling this premature stunt of discrediting RK months before the trial but just weeks before DC's scheduled depo.
 
True, but the odd thing is that, despite other people searching the general area (JW and DC come to mind immediately), that was a lot of ground to cover. RK went immediately to the spot; he didn't spend a half an hour or so combing through things. Even DC, who obviously had the pavers and bags in his description and spent two days searching, didn't come near it.

If it is not a coincidence that RK went immediately to the correct location and was able to return there several months later, then I am assuming the "tip" was very specific in nature (just like the "three pavers" tip DC acted on) and probably came from the same source - an Anthony and not a psychic. If that is the case, then DC has some real 'splainin' to do. I would hazard a guess this is why JB & Co. are pulling this premature stunt of discrediting RK months before the trial but just weeks before DC's scheduled depo.

I lost my shed key the other day. I looked all over the yard, in the house and even in the pockets of the clothes I thought I was wearing that day and couldn't find it. I finally gave up and got busy with something else. Walking down the sidewalk out of the corner of my eye I saw a glint of shiny gold color. My shed key was in a flower bed. Point is, sometimes just happens. One person can walk by a set of remains and never see them. A second person picks them out immediately. Maybe it was a difference in angle, maybe it was a state of mind or maybe a better observational skill but it can happen.

Besides I have a different theory about DC's alleged "search." I think he had found the remains and the filming was a defense set up. If the remains "weren't there" when the filming was done, then KC "couldn't have left the remains there." Did you notice the filming was mainly done in that area, and ended after that area?
 
I lost my shed key the other day. I looked all over the yard, in the house and even in the pockets of the clothes I thought I was wearing that day and couldn't find it. I finally gave up and got busy with something else. Walking down the sidewalk out of the corner of my eye I saw a glint of shiny gold color. My shed key was in a flower bed. Point is, sometimes just happens. One person can walk by a set of remains and never see them. A second person picks them out immediately. Maybe it was a difference in angle, maybe it was a state of mind or maybe a better observational skill but it can happen.

Besides I have a different theory about DC's alleged "search." I think he had found the remains and the filming was a defense set up. If the remains "weren't there" when the filming was done, then KC "couldn't have left the remains there." Did you notice the filming was mainly done in that area, and ended after that area?

That's a very interesting and valid theory, and shows that DC was obviously an amateur that had no idea Caylee was probably completely skeletonized and tiny bones were totally scattered by mid-August, much less in November when he went stabbing about with that stick. I imagine nobody would think that plant and bug growth would even be a factor in determining how long her remains had been undisturbed.
 
This is not quite true. Twinkies were mentioned, (though it was a just a small part of the diminished capacity defense. The following quote is from:
Eileen A. Scallen & William E. Wiethoff, The Ethos of Expert Witnesses: Confusing the Admissibility, Sufficiency and Credibility of Expert Testimony, 49 Hastings L.J. 1143, 1161-66 (1998):

"At the trial, White presented a defense of diminished capacity, using [precedent] . . . which held that evidence of diminished capacity, whether from intoxication, trauma or mental disease, could be used to show that the defendant did not have a specific mental state such as malice aforethought, or could not premeditate or deliberate to the degree required for a conviction of first degree murder. Thus, White presented expert testimony regarding his mental state at the time of the killings. This expert testimony was the source of one of the trial's most memorable images and one of the most reviled examples of "junk science" - the "Twinkie defense," as the press referred to the testimony of Dr. Martin Blinder. This defense expert testified that when White became depressed, he ate large amounts of junk food - Twinkies, Coca-Cola, etc. Moreover, Dr. Blinder testified that when "susceptible individuals" like White consume "large quantities of what we call junk food, high sugar content food with lots of preservatives can precipitate anti-social and even violent behavior." However, what is now forgotten is that the defense did not rely solely on the "Twinkie" theory; four other psychiatrists also testified for the defense, uniformly agreeing that White suffered from depression to such a degree that he possessed diminished capacity at the time of the killing and could not premeditate or deliberate."

Thank you. I no longer have a copy of the trial record, so I can't verify this to be true. I could have missed reading a single offhand utterance by Dr. Blinder.

I do remember that Ding Dong's were mentioned (and HO and HOs or something like that). Dr. Blinder testified for many an hour regarding the effects of depression and White's alleged depression, and his reference to junk food was but a minute or two (if that).

Nonetheless, that's what the media latched onto and played up; i.e., an improbable defense mocked as an absurd defense. And when the mostly female jury -- several members felt sorry for Dan White -- bought into it by convicting White of only manslaughter instead of murder one (death penalty was available) and after White was sentenced to but seven years, thousands in the gay community rioted.

As a small aside, I know that Dan White's lead attorney, Doug Schmidt, was taken back by the media's characterization of his defense as the 'Twinkie defense,' which was media inspired ridicule that came to reflect on him as a defense attorney even though he certainly did not champion a junk food defense, much less a Twinkie defense.

For the record, I would have convicted Dan White of first-degree murder. Coming on the heels of my strong reaction to Patty Hearst's conviction, which I still consider to have been an egregious wrongful convicton, California justice seemed to me to have turned upside down in the 70's.

Dan White served 5 years of his 7 year sentence for killing San Francisco's Mayor, George Moscone, and the San Francisco's City Supervisor, Harvey Milk. After White was released from prison, he admitted to premeditated murder.

Patty Hearst was sentenced to 35 years for bank robbery -- no one was killed. President Carter commuted her sentence to 7 years and commuted her time in prison to 22 months. She eventually received a full pardon from President Clinton.
 
I lost my shed key the other day. I looked all over the yard, in the house and even in the pockets of the clothes I thought I was wearing that day and couldn't find it. I finally gave up and got busy with something else. Walking down the sidewalk out of the corner of my eye I saw a glint of shiny gold color. My shed key was in a flower bed. Point is, sometimes just happens. One person can walk by a set of remains and never see them. A second person picks them out immediately. Maybe it was a difference in angle, maybe it was a state of mind or maybe a better observational skill but it can happen.

Besides I have a different theory about DC's alleged "search." I think he had found the remains and the filming was a defense set up. If the remains "weren't there" when the filming was done, then KC "couldn't have left the remains there." Did you notice the filming was mainly done in that area, and ended after that area?

....And Hoover was really nervous about this... DC went out there admittedly three times, but JH does not say the same....
 
Now I must ask.....Will John Morgan get a crack at Roy? If Roy killed Caylee, it proves ZFG's case, and if RK did not kill Caylee but is being accused of it, it shows that KC will lie and blame anyone-Also helping to prove ZFG's case.
 
That is a very good question! Can these allegations by ex-wife, son, step daughter, actually be considered "prior bad acts" if there is no proof that they actually occurred??

As of right now, without police reports, convictions, etc aren't they simply allegations that have not been deemed as actual "prior bad acts" but instead a he said/she said situation?

If a prosecution witness states during the trial that KC told them that she has beaten Caylee in the past, can that be considered a "prior bad act" (simply because the witness states it as so) even though there has been absolutely no evidence that KC was physically abusive to Caylee?

This is actually a bit off topic, but a friend of mine was physically attacked by her soon-to-be ex-daughter-in-law. My friend's husband and her son (soon-to-be divorced from the woman who was attacking his mother) witnessed the attack, and pulled the attacking woman off my friend.

My friend was hurt, and within a few hours she had numerous bruises appear on her body. She filed a police report and the soon-to-be ex-daughter-in-law was charged with assault and battery.

When the case went to court, the soon-to-be ex-daughter-in-law appeared in court with her father who stated he was with his daughter that day (he wasn't), and his daughter never struck my friend. The judge dismissed the case based on the fact that all parties were involved in a divorce action (parents considered biased parties) and without the daughter-in-law having a prior police record of domestic violence and without an independent witness, the case couldn't go forward on just he said/she said allegations.

So in Kronk's case, I don't think the ex-wives allegations could stand up in a court of law without some sort of outside proof - a police report filed, a restraining order against Kronk for domestic violence, or some sort of conviction.
 
After reading all the pages My thought is... as far as defense AL said right up front in the Judges chambers meeting, I can't remember exactly when that was, "She will be filling many many motions".
As far as RK, his ex defended him on a forum. Now why would that all change??
Makes no sense to me. The defense can throw out anything they want in motions,
The judge considers most motions so that there is not an appeal, the defense knows this and has an advantage in this regard then the thought that crossed my mind is...
The defense needs a paycheck, they go on networks take some new pics , talk, get some media attention, $$$$$ and on they go to the next person they will make wild statements about.
I mean how many times can the defense schedule interviews and say this will be tried in court not media, my client is innocent, (it)? will come out in court and we will be shocked. I feel bad for RK,RG,TL,AH,ZFG and everyone else they will draw out of hat.
I guess the reality of knowing this is how the system works is pretty scarey. Any one of us could be accused of a crime. Not long ago a girl was raped and no one saw anything even though many were there. A man fell into the street and people just walk by, no one helps. No one talks or helps and we wonder why.

BBM

That is what is really scary...and it's worrisome because it could make others that happen to find a body more reluctant to call police in the future for fear that they could be implicated in the crime. IMO what good is the reward money offered for help in locating a missing person... if the person that helps is going to be implicated in the crime? Makes no sense to me. JMO :furious:
 
LMAO! Yeah, IIRC, JB had a problem passing the bar because of a little matter of loads of back child support. And I believe his wife is just a few years shy of his daughter's age. And he owned a bikini store before he was a lawyer (can we say horndog?) - gosh, I sure hope he didn't make inappropriate advances towards employees or customers that could come back to darken his reputation. Maybe he should be a little careful about the mud-slinging and reputation besmirching; he may appear to be right down in the dirt himself if looked at through the right lenses.

but even if all this was true, JB didn't work as a meter reader in the Anthony neighborhood and wasn't the one hanging around the woods on Suburban .... :waitasec:
 
no reward should ever be offered for finding a dead person anyway, only for finding a live person (I don't know if money was offered for finding a body in this case, but if there was there shouldn't have been).
 
Thank you. I no longer have a copy of the trial record, so I can't verify this to be true. I could have missed reading a single offhand utterance by Dr. Blinder.

I do remember that Ding Dong's were mentioned (and HO and HOs or something like that). Dr. Blinder testified for many an hour regarding the effects of depression and White's alleged depression, and his reference to junk food was but a minute or two (if that).

Nonetheless, that's what the media latched onto and played up; i.e., an improbable defense mocked as an absurd defense. And when the mostly female jury -- several members felt sorry for Dan White -- bought into it by convicting White of only manslaughter instead of murder one (death penalty was available) and after White was sentenced to but seven years, thousands in the gay community rioted.

As a small aside, I know that Dan White's lead attorney, Doug Schmidt, was taken back by the media's characterization of his defense as the 'Twinkie defense,' which was media inspired ridicule that came to reflect on him as a defense attorney even though he certainly did not champion a junk food defense, much less a Twinkie defense.

For the record, I would have convicted Dan White of first-degree murder. Coming on the heels of my strong reaction to Patty Hearst's conviction, which I still consider to have been an egregious wrongful convicton, California justice seemed to me to have turned upside down in the 70's.

Dan White served 5 years of his 7 year sentence for killing San Francisco's Mayor, George Moscone, and the San Francisco's City Supervisor, Harvey Milk. After White was released from prison, he admitted to premeditated murder.

Patty Hearst was sentenced to 35 years for bank robbery -- no one was killed. President Carter commuted her sentence to 7 years and commuted her time in prison to 22 months. She eventually received a full pardon from President Clinton.



OT--sorry. But I can't miss this chance to agree with Wudge! LOL! Patty Hearst should never have been convicted.
 
no reward should ever be offered for finding a dead person anyway, only for finding a live person (I don't know if money was offered for finding a body in this case, but if there was there shouldn't have been).

The original rewards, which were put up by NLHF and PB (who also donated cars that were supposedly raffled in conjunction with KFN) were something like $225-250K, the bulk of which came from PB (who owns an exotic car dealership and a private jet company among other things). PB's had a 90 day window and it was for a live Caylee only. I think he figured that sounded pretty safe given the circumstances.
 
but even if all this was true, JB didn't work as a meter reader in the Anthony neighborhood and wasn't the one hanging around the woods on Suburban .... :waitasec:

True, but if it ever comes out that he had something to do with or knew it was orchestrated, and the info came from his client, then it will certainly have something to do with him and some of the ethics charges that have been mentioned previously.
 
but even if all this was true, JB didn't work as a meter reader in the Anthony neighborhood and wasn't the one hanging around the woods on Suburban .... :waitasec:

True, but RK was not Caylee's mother either (title loosely used) who failed to report her missing for 31 days and even then it was Cindy that did. There is just no way IMO to explain that away. :waitasec: They will try, but not one logical person will buy whatever they come up with. All I can say is I'm glad that Cindy made that call when she did because I firmly believe that if she had given KC "1 more day", we would not be discussing this now.

Honestly, what is being done to RK is sickening and what makes it so awful is that IMO it's being done not because anyone believes him guilty, it's being done to try and create reasonable doubt in the hopes that KC is not convicted even if she is guilty. NO JUSTICE for Caylee in that! But of course IMHO the A's nor JB care about that. While JB makes me sick to my stomach, it is his job to get KC off, wonder how the A's justify this in their mind? It's MO that they feel (and apparantly always have) a sense of entitlement anyway with justice for Caylee being a priority for them only if it doesn't involve KC. Mark my words the whole bunch will reap what they sow and to be sure KC is MUCH safer in prison than she would be if she were out. jmo...
Now I'm going to go throw up........:sick:..
 
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