2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

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Oh 'Beach! That is powerful and heartbreaking at the same time. But thank you for the post.
 
Just wanted to mention that BJB's interpretation of the stain is also consistent with the fact that the single decomp hair found in the trunk was found on the left side of the trunk liner, right where Caylee's head would have been according to BJB's theory.
 
AZlawyer said:
Here's the product specs for the chemical imaging system used by the US Secret Service, where the new SA expert witness in molecular chemical imaging (Joe Stephens) works:

http://www.chemimage.com/docs/product-sheets/CI-productsheet-CONDOR.pdf

Could Stephens have used this machine to create a better image of the trunk stain?? :woohoo:
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Oh, AZ, I hope so!!! Or, could they have found a fainter than normal fingerprint that this machine was able to show? *keeping fingers crossed*
 
Intermezzo said:
Casey started to mention the smell in a text to Amy on June 25th then again on the 27th, the day she abandoned the car..
I'm sure it smelled in the car but by the 25th it must have become strong enough that she had to come up with a story about the smell.
IMO She added a bag of garbage to the trunk in case someone was close enough to smell it and say something and that way she would have an excuse...
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that's one thing that I still wonder about, Casey was talking about the smell openly to Amy and trying to figure out what it was, but TL says there was no smell and others at the apartment haven't mentioned any unusual smell to her car. Weird. And if Casey knew the body was in her trunk, why leave it there long enough to create a mess or smell in the first place. Why not dump the body immediately. But if she had, and now had the smell in the trunk that she didn't want anyone to know about, why leave the car with smell intact in plain sight at Amscott where it would be noticed and found, why not set the car on fire somewhere and claim it had been stolen or something? moo. But who knows.
 
seagull65 said:
that's one thing that I still wonder about, Casey was talking about the smell openly to Amy and trying to figure out what it was, but TL says there was no smell and others at the apartment haven't mentioned any unusual smell to her car. Weird. And if Casey knew the body was in her trunk, why leave it there long enough to create a mess or smell in the first place. Why not dump the body immediately. But if she had, and now had the smell in the trunk that she didn't want anyone to know about, why leave the car with smell intact in plain sight at Amscott where it would be noticed and found, why not set the car on fire somewhere and claim it had been stolen or something? moo. But who knows.
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Hi, I dont think she realized what happens when a person dies.She could have mentioned the smell in case anyone got in the car with her,wouldnt question her on odor.I wondered why she didnt burn it also.
 
NSS said:

The image of the stain/imprint of poor Caylee is powerful and heartbreaking. I sit here in the typical Fl humidity and heat and a question springs to my mind.

Since the decomp odor is unmissable and the humid climate here amplifies it -- where was the car parked whilst the baby lay in there?
Did no one pass by and smell what must have been awful even by our 'numbed by marshland' noses?
How did Casey manage to drive around in the car without absorbing that odor, heck how did she even drive around knowing what the smell was?

I once spilled milk in the trunk of my car ---- took MUCH scrubbing, steaming, soaping and eventually cat litter to get that smell out.

Poor, poor baby. Someone may have passed by as you lay there and not even known it was you, an innocent baby.
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I know, I've always asked this same thing, NSS. It would have been parked at Sutton Pl where she was living with TL and his roommates during prime smell timeline. TL also allegedly met her that time near her parents' home to help her because she was allegedly out of gas, he stated he didn't smell decomp or anything strange when standing near the rear of her car on that date. (Why he needed to come there to supposedly help gas up the car I don't know, he didn't bring gas, they got gas out of her dad's shed. But that's another story.)
 
Nore said:
----------------
Hi, I dont think she realized what happens when a person dies.She could have mentioned the smell in case anyone got in the car with her,wouldnt question her on odor.I wondered why she didnt burn it also.
Click to expand...

My guess is Orlando being so heavily populated what would she do after she started the fire.....walk away. She could not ask someone to pick her up at the scene of her car fire. Plus there would have been an immediate investigation involving the police. She had sole possession of the car that she never reported stolen. She left the car where she knew her parents would eventually find it and would clean up after her as usual. Creature of habit. jmo
 
'Beach said:
As hard and long as we worked on that duct tape thread....and the final theory of Q104 being used to bind her hands... I knew that they couldn't have been bound in front of her since she would still be able to flex her elbows to get her hands to her mouth. Still, the thought of that baby having her arms bound behind her back makes me sick. I get chills just thinking about it. Like was pointed out before, binding her arms only means ONE THING....she was alive at the time. The image I just saw makes me physically ill.

I wish SO BADLY that the SA could tie Q104 to this theory conclusively (through the trunk image??) and present it at trial. It would be the smoking gun, IMO.
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That's true about her possibly reaching her mouth if her hands were bound in front (just like that other little girl did, the 4 year old in that other attempted kidnapping in the area. The perp duct taped her hands, feet, and mouth, but she was able to pull the mouth tape off and scream.) But I wonder, even if Caylee could reach her face, I'm not sure if she would have known how to unstick the duct tape from her face at her age, or quickly enough, for example, she could have suffocated if her nose was stuffy because she was crying, or if she vomited, or had a bloody nose or whatever, might not have been able to get the tape off her mouth in time. Maybe just that difference between being almost 3 versus being 4 could have been the crucial difference there.

I think the tape on her mouth is enough to indicate she was alive at the time, mouth taped to silence her. But I see what you mean about possible behind the back taping, very sad. I need to study the pictures again.
 
In addition to making a lifesize facial reconstruction (at least for mouth and nostril placement), I think it would be a slam dunk for the SA to show how a replica of Caylee's little body would have been placed with all of the duct tape covering the exact areas, and an overlay be done to prove whether or not these are little hands duct taped behind, as well as show the Q-104 showing it would be the exact same size for taping her hands. Like in the 'crime 360' shows that they have animation of how those exact measurements would line up.
 
AZlawyer said:
OK, I tried to upload this photo to my "Personal Webspace" on Cox but as usual it is not working :banghead: so hopefully it will come through OK as an attachment.

Inspired by Eidetic, I was trying to play with the spare tire cover photo to see if the stains shown in the LE "alternative light source" photos would show up. After just a couple of changes (increase saturation was the main one), those stains did "pop out" pretty obviously (bright blue in the attached photo).

But then I noticed another stain had "popped out"--a very dark one at the top of the spare tire cover, in the same basic area where we know something must have leaked through, based on the stain on the photos of the back of the spare tire cover. There is some of this dark color on other parts of the spare tire cover, but the top area is most obvious.

So, if these stains show up as two different colors after making the same changes to the photo, are they two different types of stains. One decomp fluid and one... ??? Chloroform?? Cleaning solution??
Click to expand...

AZ, it seems that the FBI's magical machine and expert will be able to clarify what-all was on that carpet with remarkable specificity.
 
seagull65 said:
That's true about her possibly reaching her mouth if her hands were bound in front (just like that other little girl did, the 4 year old in that other attempted kidnapping in the area. The perp duct taped her hands, feet, and mouth, but she was able to pull the mouth tape off and scream.) But I wonder, even if Caylee could reach her face, I'm not sure if she would have known how to unstick the duct tape from her face at her age, or quickly enough, for example, she could have suffocated if her nose was stuffy because she was crying, or if she vomited, or had a bloody nose or whatever, might not have been able to get the tape off her mouth in time. Maybe just that difference between being almost 3 versus being 4 could have been the crucial difference there.

I think the tape on her mouth is enough to indicate she was alive at the time, mouth taped to silence her. But I see what you mean about possible behind the back taping, very sad. I need to study the pictures again.
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I don't know. Would a child wake up if she had been put out by chloroform if HER BREATHING were obstructed by the duct tape over her nose and mouth? Lets not forget Janie (obnoxious) Weintraub says the tape was not over her nose and mouth. I could swear that the mandible is part of the mouth and the upper part (name I forget) was also taped per autopsy report.

So, if the prosecutor can talk about Caylee waking up if she were not able to breath and then .... (I don't need to describe).

I think KC could possibly get death. And I know Perry would not have a problem with that.
 
seagull65 said:
I know, I've always asked this same thing, NSS. It would have been parked at Sutton Pl where she was living with TL and his roommates during prime smell timeline. TL also allegedly met her that time near her parents' home to help her because she was allegedly out of gas, he stated he didn't smell decomp or anything strange when standing near the rear of her car on that date. (Why he needed to come there to supposedly help gas up the car I don't know, he didn't bring gas, they got gas out of her dad's shed. But that's another story.)
Click to expand...

I thought Casey wouldn't let Tony near the car when he helped her break into the shed? I'll have to go back and read his interviews again?

I do not think Casey wanted to get rid of her car, but had to when the smell would not go away. She drove around in that car for 11-12 days before leaving it at Amscott. She went and sat in the garage... with her car... that smelled like death. The smell did not phase her one bit. It may have even given her some kind of sick satisfaction smelling it again.

A animal (bird) died in one of my trashcans... it smelled BAD. I didn't know how to get rid of the smell and someone told me to put baking soda in the trashcan and that it would help get rid of the smell... which reminded me, didn't Casey had baking soda in her trunk? If something had died in her engine or on the frame of her car, why put the baking soda in the trunk? I ended up throwing away the trash can because I couldn't get rid of the smell.

Setting the car on fire would have created unwanted attention... and I still don't think she wanted to get rid of the car.
 
I don't believe Casey was well versed in how decomposition works. She most likely assumed over time, the smell would go away.

Unfortunately for her, Human decomposition never leaves.
 
AZlawyer said:
Here's the product specs for the chemical imaging system used by the US Secret Service, where the new SA expert witness in molecular chemical imaging (Joe Stephens) works:

http://www.chemimage.com/docs/product-sheets/CI-productsheet-CONDOR.pdf

Could Stephens have used this machine to create a better image of the trunk stain?? :woohoo:
Click to expand...
Interesting find, AZlawyer! I'm also wondering if this machine could be used to check for any evidence of a hart shaped sticker on the tape.

Do I remember correctly that this new witness was offered to rebut claims made by a defense expert during a deposition? And if so, does anybody have a clue which defense expert's depo this could be?
 
LolaMoon08 said:
A animal (bird) died in one of my trashcans... it smelled BAD. I didn't know how to get rid of the smell and someone told me to put baking soda in the trashcan and that it would help get rid of the smell... which reminded me, didn't Casey had baking soda in her trunk? If something had died in her engine or on the frame of her car, why put the baking soda in the trunk? I ended up throwing away the trash can because I couldn't get rid of the smell.

<snipped for brevity>
Click to expand...
A WS search revealed the 'baking soda in trunk' story was just more spin from George. Other than him mentioning this on a FOX interview, there is no discussion about baking soda. Nothing about it in combination with discovery. Here is a post that shows how the interview went: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2448564&postcount=237"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2448564&postcount=237[/ame]

Hope this helps.
 
NoNameLeft said:
A WS search revealed the 'baking soda in trunk' story was just more spin from George. Other than him mentioning this on a FOX interview, there is no discussion about baking soda. Nothing about it in combination with discovery. Here is a post that shows how the interview went: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2448564&postcount=237

Hope this helps.
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Wasn't there an Arm & Hammer detergent bottle in the trunk? Not sure if there was baking soda, though.
 
chefmom said:
Wasn't there an Arm & Hammer detergent bottle in the trunk? Not sure if there was baking soda, though.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct, I have always associated Arm & Hammer with baking soda... forgot they made a laundry detergent now.
 
seagull65 said:
that's one thing that I still wonder about, Casey was talking about the smell openly to Amy and trying to figure out what it was, but TL says there was no smell and others at the apartment haven't mentioned any unusual smell to her car. Weird. And if Casey knew the body was in her trunk, why leave it there long enough to create a mess or smell in the first place. Why not dump the body immediately. But if she had, and now had the smell in the trunk that she didn't want anyone to know about, why leave the car with smell intact in plain sight at Amscott where it would be noticed and found, why not set the car on fire somewhere and claim it had been stolen or something? moo. But who knows.
Click to expand...


Then why tell her brother the squirrel story and that the smell started around Cindy's birthday, on June 5th. Even Lee didnt buy that one.

As for the car, this was this girl's life line, she was not imo planning to be without it on a permanent basis, just long enough to prevent Tony assuming they travel in it when she take him to the airport June 30th. The very first thing she did after dropping him off (in his jeep) was to go to Amy's and then Target to buy a gas can. Wonder who paid? :waitasec: Amy also told police that Casey had texted her two days ealier, June 28th asking if she had a gas can. Seems to me she was definitely planning to go back for the car.

After Tony left for NY, she not only needed a gas can, she needed a place to stay and I'd wager a new new source of money.

Anyone know if the cops have the gas can purchased from Target?
 
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