2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

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Sorry if this has been mentioned before but this is the 1st time I heard GA describe the stain in the trunk in the center and states "I got as close to the stain as possible, I stuck my nose in the stain and it is a VERY strong odor" coming directly from the stain...the mental image this leaves is heart wrenching...poor baby link attached at 7 min mark

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPdDRIIPc1g&NR=1[/ame]
 
...one of them isn't necessary."

A quote I can't seem to attach to its original author, but, one that comes to mind when I find myself askew to someone like my good friend JWG, with whom I'm typically in agreement. In this case my perspective on the potential stain in the trunk outline is slightly different.

ETA: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.02.16 Doc Dump: Stain on Trunk Liner


In the interest of full disclosure, this is an area where I have demonstrated less than stellar abilities. The crime scene photos held all kinds of stuff in my view that it turns out... just weren't there. :bang: So...expecting just as much to be off as on - I submit to you what I'm seeing.

On the left below is the unretouched composite image that JWG so kindly pieced together & shared :thumb:. On the right is a copy of the image I have colorized to highlight what appears to me to be the outline. I have tagged some elements of the anatomy that should help you to recognize the overall positioning. Aside from adding the color and labels I have not modified the image in any way.

A description of what I'm seeing is the body in a crouching/fetal position with the points of greatest pressure (hip, shoulder, elbow & abdomen) demonstrating the most intense white (in the original). With the body laying essentially on one side with the upper torso slightly twisted such that the chest and abdomen are lying on the carpet. The torso is lying on top of what would be the left arm (mirror image) with the elbow located just behind the small of the back and the forearm passing across the abdomen and the hand(s) indistinguishable, but, positioned in what would be the lap area. The knee would be positioned over the hole in the wheel cover and the foot positioned somewhat in an on-the-toes fashion.

In this scenario the head would be resting on the section of carpet closest to the fender (not in this image as it is only of the wheel cover). IOW...the top of the image is where the shoulders would be located.

Slide1-47.jpg

Bumping this thread for Friday's hearing. Note - if you haven't looked at this thread in a long while - it contains some excellent work by our talented WS'rs.
 
...one of them isn't necessary."

A quote I can't seem to attach to its original author, but, one that comes to mind when I find myself askew to someone like my good friend JWG, with whom I'm typically in agreement. In this case my perspective on the potential stain in the trunk outline is slightly different.

ETA: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.02.16 Doc Dump: Stain on Trunk Liner


In the interest of full disclosure, this is an area where I have demonstrated less than stellar abilities. The crime scene photos held all kinds of stuff in my view that it turns out... just weren't there. :bang: So...expecting just as much to be off as on - I submit to you what I'm seeing.

On the left below is the unretouched composite image that JWG so kindly pieced together & shared :thumb:. On the right is a copy of the image I have colorized to highlight what appears to me to be the outline. I have tagged some elements of the anatomy that should help you to recognize the overall positioning. Aside from adding the color and labels I have not modified the image in any way.

A description of what I'm seeing is the body in a crouching/fetal position with the points of greatest pressure (hip, shoulder, elbow & abdomen) demonstrating the most intense white (in the original). With the body laying essentially on one side with the upper torso slightly twisted such that the chest and abdomen are lying on the carpet. The torso is lying on top of what would be the left arm (mirror image) with the elbow located just behind the small of the back and the forearm passing across the abdomen and the hand(s) indistinguishable, but, positioned in what would be the lap area. The knee would be positioned over the hole in the wheel cover and the foot positioned somewhat in an on-the-toes fashion.

In this scenario the head would be resting on the section of carpet closest to the fender (not in this image as it is only of the wheel cover). IOW...the top of the image is where the shoulders would be located.

Slide1-47.jpg
The pictures look very clear as labeled. One thing I notice, if the anatomy labeled IS correct, it does not appear that wrists could be bound with duct tape.
_________
 
The pictures look very clear as labeled. One thing I notice, if the anatomy labeled IS correct, it does not appear that wrists could be bound with duct tape.
_________

Warning Graphic:

I agree - it appears that you can even see her little hand. (sorry)
 
Warning Graphic:

I agree - it appears that you can even see her little hand. (sorry)

------------
OMG wenwe4,I took it way up in size and zoomed.I believe I even saw her thumb nail, and this is all before her little body was found.YOU GUYS ARE GOOD!!!:seeya:
 
I don't know how anyone can look at that photo and not see her body. There is too much there to be a coincidence. Way too much. If they show this in court, the A's will be flying out out of the courtroom. This is too sad. jmo
 
I don't know how anyone can look at that photo and not see her body. There is too much there to be a coincidence. Way too much. If they show this in court, the A's will be flying out out of the courtroom. This is too sad. jmo

And now that I have watched Dr. Vass's testimony, he seemed to think the stain in the trunk was decomp (never outright said it, and was not asked directly, but clearly implied it, IMO). That plus the picture above convinces me!
 
And now that I have watched Dr. Vass's testimony, he seemed to think the stain in the trunk was decomp (never outright said it, and was not asked directly, but clearly implied it, IMO). That plus the picture above convinces me!

And don't we all use the terminology "like". It smells like vinegar when we smell that clear liquid in a cup. Smells like bleach, smells like cookies in the oven, is that pumpkin pie, smells LIKE it to me. We never say it IS when it is not immediately visually identifiable, we say like. Because we trust our senses. If we did not trust our noses we'd be drinking bleach for heaven's sake. There is no way to say visually it is decomposition when there is not a body lying on top of it so when we smell it, it smells LIKE decomposition.

Same with science. They don't have the body present but the compounds indicate it is like/similar/the same as decomposition. It is like/of the same composition as grave wax. A 10 year old can understand that. jmo
 
I don't know how anyone can look at that photo and not see her body. There is too much there to be a coincidence. Way too much. If they show this in court, the A's will be flying out out of the courtroom. This is too sad. jmo

LC , I could never make out the image of a child until I had saved it, enlarged it and viewed it. I did that just now and my supper is trying to come back up. I wish I had never inspected this photo. And yes, NOW I see it. :(
 
The pictures look very clear as labeled. One thing I notice, if the anatomy labeled IS correct, it does not appear that wrists could be bound with duct tape.
_________

Sorry (saying this hurts) Usually our arms rest in front of our torso and the image marked shoulder & elbow is clearly pulled back. I'm only seeing one arm outline and nothing resting across the chest - could they have been bound behind her back?

Poor sweet Caylee, deserved so much more.
 
Sorry (saying this hurts) Usually our arms rest in front of our torso and the image marked shoulder & elbow is clearly pulled back. I'm only seeing one arm outline and nothing resting across the chest - could they have been bound behind her back?

Poor sweet Caylee, deserved so much more.

I think in one of the threads it was determined that this would have been an outline of her body inside the bag as sometime an impression is transferred onto a surface from whatever is inside the bag. The heavier impressions would probably be where the most weigh was hitting the bag at the time. You can't see her other arm or leg because it is not making an impression on the bag, it's just the side that is coming in contact with the surface, sort of like one dimensional, I think. That is why they were unable to find any blood. It an impression pretty much similiar to when you write on a pad and there is an impression left on the next page. In this case there was apparently some decomp fluids there to make the stain. Hope I explained that right.
 
I hope this doesn't sound ghoulish, it isn't meant to be. But if that photo isn't a voice from the grave, I don't know what is. God bless that baby.
 
....are those white things maggots? Also this is the underside of the lining yes? No wonder the car reeked. Absolutely disgusting. The body must have been well gone by the time she disposed of it. How anybody could drive around with that in their trunk is beyond me, that really is horrific.

It looks like maggots to me, especially the shape.
 
I wish I could. I saved it and will study it before Friday's hearing.
 
I posted the following on Val's blog:

The recent discovery contained a handful of images taken of the stain in Casey Anthony’s trunk. If you recall, FBI Intelligence Analyst Karen Cowan made the following remarks in an internal email dated September 30, 2008:

On October 2, Richard W. Vorder Bruegge – a Supervisory Photographic Technologist with the FBI – responded with the following:

If the file names are an accurate indicator, thirteen unique images were color-adjusted in an attempt to highlight different aspects of the trunk stain. Twenty adjusted images were included in the discovery, some representing different adjustments of the same image.

I found three images particularly interesting because they seemed to highlight the stain in significant, but different ways. First is the image found on discovery page numbered 13059 with the file name IMG_2235_red_levels.tif:

View attachment 8292

The second was an image on page 13064 with the file name IMG_2233_red.tif:

View attachment 8293

And the last image was on page 13068 with the file name IMG_2227_cyan_levels.tif:

View attachment 8294

Ideally, we’d have the original color TIF files to look at, but instead we had lousy black-and-white scans. Despite the poor quality of the images, I decided to see if I could combine the three images above to see what kind of picture they might produce.

I imported all three images into Photoshop, and first combined IMG_2233_red.tif with IMG_2235_red_levels, then combined IMG_2227_cyan_levels.tif with the result of the previous step. All three images were taken from slightly different perspectives, so I had to make adjustments to one image in order to get it to align with the other.

In Photoshop I simply imported two images into a single document in separate layers. I adjusted the opacity of the top image so that I could partially see through to the bottom image. I adjusted the size and rotation of the top image to match the bottom image, using the scale within both images as a guide. There were slight differences in perspective that I had to adjust using the free transform tool in Photoshop. This allowed me to properly align certain shapes found in both images.

Also, in the IMG_2227_cyan_levels.tif image, I cropped out the washed-out areas at the bottom and on the left. Because that same image as found in the discovery was cropped at the right, there is an abrupt, artificial line in the resulting image.

After I aligned and cropped images as appropriate, I merged the layers using the “lighten” method so that bright areas in the top layer would be added to the bottom layer. The resulting image is as follows (the abrupt line at the top right is due to the cropping in the final image):

View attachment 8295
I found several useful images on the web of toddlers right around three years of age in the fetal position. I took one of those images and layered it over the image above. To protect the innocent, I then drew an outline of the child. Note that Caylee was about 36 inches tall, so she would measure in the neighborhood of roughly 20 inches from the top of her head to her hip, give or take. I think this lines up with the scale fairly well.

View attachment 8296

This is, of course, my own speculation as to how Caylee was tossed into her mother’s trunk based on the rather poor photographs I had to work with. Nevertheless, doing this little piece of work really drove home the indignity of what Casey Anthony did to her daughter.

A couple of follow-up comments as food for thought:


  1. Caylee was wearing a pull-up. Thus, decomposition fluids coming from that area would largely remain in the pull-up and not in the trunk. That is why, in my opinion, the stain is lighter in that area than the area of the head, which was uncovered.
  2. I am of the opinion Caylee was not immediately placed in a bag when put in the trunk. I don’t think that was done until the day she borrowed Mr. Burner’s shovel. I have no proof. It is just an opinion.
  3. Consider how you carry a sleeping toddler in your arms. Aren’t they typically folded in the fetal position when you carry them? It would be natural for Casey to carry a dead Caylee to the trunk as she might carry a sleeping Caylee, and then put her down in that position.

Rebumping this post as well - just to put those questions out again that were postulated so long ago.
 
Sorry (saying this hurts) Usually our arms rest in front of our torso and the image marked shoulder & elbow is clearly pulled back. I'm only seeing one arm outline and nothing resting across the chest - could they have been bound behind her back?

Poor sweet Caylee, deserved so much more.

Looking at that pic, I've wondered if perhaps her elbows were bound behind her :(
*shudder*
so sad :(
 
I wish I could. I saved it and will study it before Friday's hearing.

I tried to "roughly" outline in blue what I am seeing - hope this helps.


(respectfully I outlined on JWG's original work - just for reference - hope that is ok)
 

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