2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

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Wow, thank you so much for this summary! But I must offer the disclaimer that my post #500 was based on using a ruler against a computer screen, which we have all since learned is "junk science." :innocent:

The BJB/JWG images strike me immediately as an outline of Caylee, and the more I look at it the more I can see the image of both arms bound at the wrist behind her back, with one hand bent under her leg. :( The State has, thus far, not disclosed any enhancement of the trunk stain photos that would show anything similar, though.

Wonder if we will see anything on Friday?
 
OMG, your outline. OMG, that poor child. I know I've seen this before, but it's painful to see it again. It almost looks like she's sleeping...I so wish it just her sleeping, not a stain...my heart just hurts...I am just sick all over again. Justice cannot come soon enough for you Caylee! This Friday is going to be so hard to follow...

I can just imagine Casey sitting there scribbling and not reacting, as usual. I hope Cindy goes running out of the courtroom on Friday when they talk about this stain :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Hi Aedrys, that would be something to see, CA running screaming. What would be better is her running to the witness chair screaming I want to finally tell the truth about everything I know...or even better, KC doing that. :maddening::maddening::maddening:
 
I am shocked.
Is this what JB is trying to get thrown out? And if so, based on what?

Patty, this is IIRC one piece of the remaining Frye hearings. I can only imagine that JB wants this information thrown out, as it is extraordinarily damaging to his client, and I also imagine that he will, as would any good defense attorney during a Frye hearing, attack the science used to produce these images...

What we have been looking at are renderings based on photographs/files that have been degraded by passing through many non-LE computers and many non-LE imaging devices/programs. I think that AZ's post 562 and forward discuss some theories as to how the FBI analyzed the stain visually at least. Not sure what we will be able to see during the hearing but I think HHJP will be looking at better-rendered versions of these images later this week while deciding whether or not to admit the stain in the trunk as evidence.
 
Just noticed that, when the SA released the photos of the stain, the ONLY close-up was of what we are speculating is an outline of Caylee's hands bound at the wrist (or forearms?) with duct tape. :(

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_403.htm

Unfortunately the image is not as clear as it is in JWG's composite. But this one is a little clearer and makes it look like the arms are bound in TWO places:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_407.htm
 
OMG AZ.

Just OMG.

It might be worse than we ever considered, huh.
 
Just noticed that, when the SA released the photos of the stain, the ONLY close-up was of what we are speculating is an outline of Caylee's hands bound at the wrist (or forearms?) with duct tape. :(

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_403.htm

Unfortunately the image is not as clear as it is in JWG's composite. But this one is a little clearer and makes it look like the arms are bound in TWO places:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_407.htm

OK. AZ, I know your "ruler against a computer screen" technique is "junk science" but look again at those two dark bands on your second link above. How wide/thick would duct tape be on a toddler's arm?
 
Just noticed that, when the SA released the photos of the stain, the ONLY close-up was of what we are speculating is an outline of Caylee's hands bound at the wrist (or forearms?) with duct tape. :(

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_403.htm

Unfortunately the image is not as clear as it is in JWG's composite. But this one is a little clearer and makes it look like the arms are bound in TWO places:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_407.htm

I can clearly see (in the second close up above) what looks like lines where the duct tape is, but exactly which spot would this be if it were on JWG's composite? Another thing I wondered about on JWG's composite is what looks like a white line that looks like it might even go around the torso. I wondered if there hadn't been duct tape there as well.
 
I can clearly see (in the second close up above) what looks like lines where the duct tape is, but exactly which spot would this be if it were on JWG's composite? Another thing I wondered about on JWG's composite is what looks like a white line that looks like it might even go around the torso. I wondered if there hadn't been duct tape there as well.

They think that was the diaper. Well, some posters here think it was the diaper. You can see the imprint of a hand and even a fingernail. Very sad. The more you look at it, the more you see.
 
Just noticed that, when the SA released the photos of the stain, the ONLY close-up was of what we are speculating is an outline of Caylee's hands bound at the wrist (or forearms?) with duct tape. :(

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_403.htm

Unfortunately the image is not as clear as it is in JWG's composite. But this one is a little clearer and makes it look like the arms are bound in TWO places:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_407.htm

Oh my. When I first saw these pictures I had no idea what I was looking at. Now that AZ explained it, it's so clear. Thanks AZ!
 
They think that was the diaper. Well, some posters here think it was the diaper. You can see the imprint of a hand and even a fingernail. Very sad. The more you look at it, the more you see.
Yes, I can definitely see the arm and the hand clearly. It is interesting - that white line that could possibly be the diaper or pull up seems to go across what I am seeing as one of her arms. So, so sad!!!

ETA - it is going to be an interesting day in court when this is brought out!! It will be interesting to see if we ever find out exactly what caused this stain. I know we thought it was not decomp fluid (lots and lots of posts earlier in the thread to that effect) but Dr. Vass's testimony last week seemed to indicate that he did think it was decomp related. JB was trying to get him to affirm the fact that a hamburger could have caused the adipocere like substance on the paper towels, and his response was that a hamburger could not cause an 18" stain (or something very closely like that). Gosh this just sounds awful!! I do not know how any of the Anthonys can sit stone faced and hear these things!
 
Decomp stains... Had something unusual happen about 2 weeks ago. Found in the street in front of my house a dead Opossum. Since I'm in Texas, he was a BIG fellow, much larger than our Florida Opossums, and quite handsome white and grey. Anyway, not wanting to see him turned into a road rash I scooped up his body with a shovel, (sound familiar?) and put him first in a construction grade black plastic bag, then in one of our Texas garbage bags for pick-up a couple of days later, and left him outside on the driveway next to the house. This area gets much afternoon sun. Well, he really started to smell! And when I picked up the bag to take it to the street, there "burned" into the concrete was an exact image of his body but it was in black. I could see the nose, eyes, ears, body and tail. It reminded me of a concrete "Shroud of Turin." Reading this thread, I can guess, before the carpet was washed, the image might very well have been far clearer. And who washed the carpet? They must surely have had to deal with a very realistic image.

Bumping this one from USARDOG.... posted in Sept. 2010.
 
Also PIP, this is what I mean about bringing Caylee to life in this courtroom and this picture does just that - In the closing, I would definitely show her in life and then I would show this picture.

If they can prove, and I don't know that they can, that Caylee suffered in this car and was very probably awake when she could not breathe, KC would get death - I don't see her not getting it if they can prove that.

But I am thinking she put Caylee out with a tremendous amount of chloroform, as testified to by the air expert - the amounts I mean - he said 10,000 times the norm of a decomposing body. The peak was higher than any other compound. SOOOO, she saturated that cloth and that could not have been fun for Caylee. It sounds totally frightening, doesn't it?

The jurors will be seeing autopsy/crime scene photos as well that show what Caylee was reduced to. Her disposal regarded as trash. Your post reminded me of the defense botanist stating how shocked she was at the tiny size of her bones. Going to be some pretty awful images to view.
 
these pic are beyond horrible and so very damning...how is the defense going to try to block them? I don't get it
 
Patty, this is IIRC one piece of the remaining Frye hearings. I can only imagine that JB wants this information thrown out, as it is extraordinarily damaging to his client, and I also imagine that he will, as would any good defense attorney during a Frye hearing, attack the science used to produce these images...

What we have been looking at are renderings based on photographs/files that have been degraded by passing through many non-LE computers and many non-LE imaging devices/programs. I think that AZ's post 562 and forward discuss some theories as to how the FBI analyzed the stain visually at least. Not sure what we will be able to see during the hearing but I think HHJP will be looking at better-rendered versions of these images later this week while deciding whether or not to admit the stain in the trunk as evidence.

Who has produced the "better rendered versions"
Also...i ask...who first noticed these stains?
 
Who has produced the "better rendered versions"
Also...i ask...who first noticed these stains?

Pattymarie, we are speculating that LE/FBI has better-rendered versions due to their advanced imaging technology that would be brought to bear on actual physical specimens. (Posts 562 and 563 on this thread)

The stains AFAIR were first noted by LE and FBI. (Well, GA mentioned seeing a stain on the trunk liner but I do not have a link for that.) The main picture we are looking at now is from posts 298 and 365 on this thread...
 
Just noticed that, when the SA released the photos of the stain, the ONLY close-up was of what we are speculating is an outline of Caylee's hands bound at the wrist (or forearms?) with duct tape. :(

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_403.htm

Unfortunately the image is not as clear as it is in JWG's composite. But this one is a little clearer and makes it look like the arms are bound in TWO places:

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_407.htm

O.M.G... O.M.G... That... That's what I thought I saw and questioned up thread because of the shoulder / elbow position. Oh.

No words for this tonight. None.

How could she and how can CA still support her????
 
Pattymarie, we are speculating that LE/FBI has better-rendered versions due to their advanced imaging technology that would be brought to bear on actual physical specimens. (Posts 562 and 563 on this thread)

The stains AFAIR were first noted by LE and FBI. (Well, GA mentioned seeing a stain on the trunk liner but I do not have a link for that.) The main picture we are looking at now is from posts 298 and 365 on this thread...

There is a quote in this thread re George seeing the stain. If I can find it again I'll bring the link forward.

YNot - didn't you work on the stain photos, way back when?

ETA - I believe the clip in this video has GA describing the stain:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6220584&postcount=601"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6220584&postcount=601[/ame]
 
There is a quote in this thread re George seeing the stain. If I can find it again I'll bring the link forward.

YNot - didn't you work on the stain photos, way back when?

LCM, I did a lot of following the stain photos way back when... but other posters carried the day as far as outlines, etc.

When it comes to a thread this long, any attempt to index the info will be helpful at trial time, methinks. I know the link you're thinking of--and would be all :woohoo: if you can find it and bring it forward!
 

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