2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[Intermezzo]

You :rocker:!

:blushing:

We all :rocker: on this :rollercoaster:

 

[LolaMoon08]

I don't know what images they will use at the hearing... or what kinds of advanced imaging techniques they have available to them... but I got pretty excited when reading through the product brochure on the CONDOR machine (post 562).

If these images are displayed on that screen, like the video witnesses, I wonder what KC's reaction will be? Will she maintain her paralegal charade? Will she break down? How could you sit there, innocent or guilty, and look at a stain made by your own child's decomposing body, and not fall over in grief? Or throw up? I mean, this stuff gives some of us nightmares. She lived it. She remembers that smell. She remembers that stain. What on earth will the DT do with her when she's faced with these images?

She better show some kind of emotion. I just need to see her genuinely sick over this whole thing to convince me that she is even human. It didn't happen when they were talking about Caylee's hair with the post mortem banding. It didn't happen when they were talking about the smell of human decomposition that was caused by her daughters body. If it doesn't happen when she sees images of Caylee's body... in the fetal position... in the trunk of her car... I don't know if I could even consider her human?

 

[Solace]

Part 1

Part 4
http://www.wftv.com/video/21932889/index.html (See about 23:00 minutes in) (Watch at about 24:23 minutes in as she rubs her wrist at the mention of the word 'restrained'.)

Hi Truth,

Good catch. Maybe she attempted to do that restrain her hands or did it and then removed them after there was no reason and Caylee stopped moving, because from the stain "picture" it does not appear that her arms were restrained - her arm is clearly visible with her hand and thumb (and this had to be the side that was lying on top of the rug for such a clear outline.

Now when I look at that picture, I can clearly see a toddler - it is clear as day as opposed to when I first looked.

Thanks for the videos.

 

[Solace]

She better show some kind of emotion. I just need to see her genuinely sick over this whole thing to convince me that she is even human. It didn't happen when they were talking about Caylee's hair with the post mortem banding. It didn't happen when they were talking about the smell of human decomposition that was caused by her daughters body. If it doesn't happen when she sees images of Caylee's body... in the fetal position... in the trunk of her car... I don't know if I could even consider her human?

And it didn't happen when George CRIED and said he would do it a 100 times (let KC talk to LE without lawyers if it would save Caylee). In fact, she did not look up when he left.

All these people are against her, first Lee, now Dad? What is going on?

 

[LambChop]

Hi Truth,

Good catch. Maybe she attempted to do that restrain her hands or did it and then removed them after there was no reason and Caylee stopped moving, because from the stain "picture" it does not appear that her arms were restrained - her arm is clearly visible with her hand and thumb (and this had to be the side that was lying on top of the rug for such a clear outline.

Now when I look at that picture, I can clearly see a toddler - it is clear as day as opposed to when I first looked.

Thanks for the videos.

Okay, now follow the arm down from the shoulder when looking at the picture. There is a break in the color, it becomes dark about the size of duct tape. Then follow down towards the hands, another break in the color where it gets dark. The belief is this is the duct tape at two places on her arms. Post #602

 

[wenwe4]

sadly, I can see her little toenails too. Especially the big toe nail. We know the remains were not found with shoes and socks - just another confirmation that this negative image of Caylee in the trunk will speak volumes at trial. (see post #602 reference)

 

[wenwe4]

upthread someone asked of the State had pictures of the stain in the trunk . . . see latest news headline. I feel fairly confident that they have much better pics than we do (for Caylee's sake).

"Dr. Martin explained LIBS -- Laser-induced breakdown spectroscopy. She said it's a technique that uses lasers to generate specific elements that are present in the sample.

She describes it as making a fingerprint.

This technique has been around since the 1960s."

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...e-argued-Friday-in-Casey-Anthony-case?cid=rss


of course that is assuming a LIBS is a picture. It is more likely a chemical detector and unrelated to any picture of the stain in the trunk (probably just wishful thinking on my part).

 

[AZlawyer]

OK. AZ, I know your "ruler against a computer screen" technique is "junk science" but look again at those two dark bands on your second link above. How wide/thick would duct tape be on a toddler's arm?

Luckily, you don't have to use my "junk science" method :innocent: because LE put a ruler in the picture for us.http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/032310caseyanthonyset3/1/lg/032310_anthony2_Page_407.htm

Now, in this picture the ruler is less clear than the dark bands, but we have better pics of the ruler and you can see the numbers clearly. The duct tape was just under 2 inches wide, and these 2 dark bands are, well, pretty much exactly the same width.

<snipped>
This is not case of us seeing kittens or skulls in a pile of leaves, this is a smoking gun in my opinion. As if she had photographed it herself.

<snipped>

The skull is fricking RIGHT THERE in the photos. But please no one respond to me unless they can find and bump that thread, because I don't want this one to get shut down.

 

[cloud9]

sadly, I can see her little toenails too. Especially the big toe nail. We know the remains were not found with shoes and socks - just another confirmation that this negative image of Caylee in the trunk will speak volumes at trial. (see post #602 reference)

I just thought of something. Is this why Caylee's shoes were taken as evidence??? (they were, weren't they?)

 

[lauriej]

http://www.cfnews13.com/article/new...e-argued-Friday-in-Casey-Anthony-case?cid=rss
---what's in a Stain ?


Just Wednesday, more transcripts of depositions were filed. One of the four added in the court file is of Dr. Madhavi Martin from the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee.

Dr. Martin explained LIBS -- Laser-induced breakdown spectroscopy. She said it's a technique that uses lasers to generate specific elements that are present in the sample.

• Dr. Madhavi Martin deposition excerpt

http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/Madhavi-Martin-deposition-excerpt-0330.pdf

 

[jharres]

Part 4
http://www.wftv.com/video/21932889/index.html (See about 23:00 minutes in) (Watch at about 24:23 minutes in as she rubs her wrist at the mention of the word 'restrained'.)

Holy carp that was difficult to watch. If anything though, it was good to bring it back to the central issue of the trial. I think she's toast...

 

[TiaM]

Well I'll tell you what this DOESN'T look like: a hamburger or a pizza - or even a slice of pizza!

I just thank whatever Higher Power - call it God, call it Karma, whatever you believe in - that this image was preserved on and under the trunk liner DESPITE Cindy scrubbing the living daylights out of it on July 15th, 2008!

What must it have looked like prior to scrubbing? HOW could Cindy detach enough to even do it? How on earth did she not call 911 right then and there? The sight of it combined with the smell (not to mention Cindy's suspicions - re: her actions/posts on July 3rd) would be enough to have me screaming out for help immediately.

If this is shown to the jury - THIS, right here is what's going to get ICA a needle in her arm.

 

[cloud9]

I believe the Prosecution will argue Restraint, of some sort..
Jeff Ashton described in a Dec 2009 hearing how Caylee must have been restrained (IF someone finds the Video to that hearing ...the one where Casey asks Andrea to make him stop...please post the link...I haven't found it yet)

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...-tape-caylee-anthony-george-and-cindy-anthony

Investigators try to link duct tape to Casey Anthony February 16, 2010

"In December, in fact, Assistant State Attorney Jeff Ashton described how prosecutors think Caylee died, with duct tape over her nose and mouth.

"If she was physically restrained, her killer would have had to restrain her arms by some means, applying tape while she was conscious," Ashton said in December."

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9UECWMtKeA[/ame]

 

[AZlawyer]

This is the only pic I can find in my saved folder of Q104 (the piece of Henkel tape found NOT on the skull, which I think was originally around Caylee's wrists ). (Ignore the screen calipers lol--that's from when we were measuring the distance between logos.)

You can see that it was removed by an animal and could have been originally in a loop shape.

 

[wenwe4]

Well I'll tell you what this DOESN'T look like: a hamburger or a pizza - or even a slice of pizza!

I just thank whatever Higher Power - call it God, call it Karma, whatever you believe in - that this image was preserved on and under the trunk liner DESPITE Cindy scrubbing the living daylights out of it on July 15th, 2008!

What must it have looked like prior to scrubbing? HOW could Cindy detach enough to even do it? How on earth did she not call 911 right then and there? The sight of it combined with the smell (not to mention Cindy's suspicions - re: her actions/posts on July 3rd) would be enough to have me screaming out for help immediately.

If this is shown to the jury - THIS, right here is what's going to get ICA a needle in her arm.

Honestly, I don't believe this is visible by the naked eye. Pictures were taken from many filters and highlighting, etc. If you look at the actual pictures of the stains in the trunk (see ynot's post #656 summary of some of the best and most informative posts in this thread imo) many of the shots of the trunk liner etc do not look obvious like the the highlighted thread of what I was seeing in post #620.

Keep in mind, my eye may be matrixing and I have tainted all of you and now you cannot "unsee" this image. I really hope this is not the case. This is the very reason why I asked others if they saw the outline of the shovel in the picture (see my post #693) without outlining (so as not to taint the ws jury).

I do believe that the State has images of the trunk that will be quite telling - whether or not it is exactly what we are seeing.

 

[cloud9]

Part 1
http://www.wftv.com/video/21930588/index.html

Part 2
http://www.wftv.com/video/21930619/index.html

Part 3
http://www.wftv.com/video/21931707/index.html

Part 4
http://www.wftv.com/video/21932889/index.html (See about 23:00 minutes in) (Watch at about 24:23 minutes in as she rubs her wrist at the mention of the word 'restrained'.)


For a short version, there is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rAV535Cgi8&NR=1

I apologize. I posted this after you did. I just noticed.

 

[TiaM]

Honestly, I don't believe this is visible by the naked eye. Pictures were taken from many filters and highlighting, etc. If you look at the actual pictures of the stains in the trunk (see ynot's post #656 summary of some of the best and most informative posts in this thread imo) many of the shots of the trunk liner etc do not look obvious like the the highlighted thread of what I was seeing in post #620.

Keep in mind, my eye may be matrixing and I have tainted all of you and now you cannot "unsee" this image. I really hope this is not the case. This is the very reason why I asked others if they saw the outline of the shovel in the picture (see my post #693) without outlining (so as not to taint the ws jury).

I do believe that the State has images of the trunk that will be quite telling - whether or not it is exactly what we are seeing.

BBM

I keep thinking back to the correspondence between the FBI agents up-thread. The first agent remarked to the other that the pictures didn't really do it justice compared to viewing it.

 

[janine]

Well I'll tell you what this DOESN'T look like: a hamburger or a pizza - or even a slice of pizza!

I just thank whatever Higher Power - call it God, call it Karma, whatever you believe in - that this image was preserved on and under the trunk liner DESPITE Cindy scrubbing the living daylights out of it on July 15th, 2008!

What must it have looked like prior to scrubbing? HOW could Cindy detach enough to even do it? How on earth did she not call 911 right then and there? The sight of it combined with the smell (not to mention Cindy's suspicions - re: her actions/posts on July 3rd) would be enough to have me screaming out for help immediately.

If this is shown to the jury - THIS, right here is what's going to get ICA a needle in her arm.

This is the image I have every single time I see Cindy. I just can't shake this out of my vision. Either bent over the trunk with a bucket of soapy, bleachy water scrubbing away- or pulling the liner out and doing it on the cement floor. Either way- she was destroying evidence of her granddaughter's death.
There must have been bugs and lots of them, no doubt.
I remember distinctly (disclaimer: please forgive my grossness here)........I was taking care of my dying dad during a very hot summer years ago. In doing so, I had to clean out his refrigerator to bring food home that he was never going to get to. I had pulled a package of steaks out and stuck them in my tote bag and in the back of my car. With all that was going on, I got distracted and yep, forgot about the frozen steaks in my bag. Came home, parked in the garage and went about my business........3 days later, I got in my car and it was covered in adult flies (INSIDE). I had no idea what was going on. I had left the window open which is all it took. After driving down the freeway a while, I noticed the flies kept coming............Pulled off the road, saw the bag and suddenly REMEMBERED!!! OMG. The steaks!!!! They were cover in maggots and grown flies..............That's all it took. I don't remember a smell, just maggots everywhere in this bag. Solution: Throw EVERYTHING OUT and scrub!!! Thankfully it stayed contained.

QUESTION: Why didn't Cindy just throw the obviously ruined liner out instead of trying to clean it? The smell wasn't going anywhere. Who would have known there was a liner to begin with or when it was tossed. The liner gone, so is the evidence that she clearly was trying to get rid of..........:banghead:

 

[AZlawyer]

So...did anyone here watch General Hospital in Feb/March 2008 (since we know from the jail letters that KC was/is a GH fan)? Can anyone tell us whether when "Diego Alcazar" duct taped "Sam's" mouth and hands, (1) whether he used multiple pieces of tape on her mouth and (2) whether he bound her hands behind her back?

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar[/ame]

 

[AZlawyer]

Back in May 2010, I did an analysis of the logos and ends of the pieces of duct tape, etc., and concluded that the order went like this:

Q66 (gas can)

then 1 or more missing pieces

Q62 (somewhere on lower skull area--long piece and missing apparent mouth print and bulge that could be chin seen on other pieces--perhaps across nose?)

then POSSIBLE missing pieces but not necessarily

Q104 (animal-damaged piece with fringe hairs--might have been around wrists/arms--original length uncertain)

Q64 (bottom piece across mouth)

Q63 (top piece across mouth)

So...perhaps George left the piece on the gas can in the shed any time before June 16--days, months, who knows (Casey didn't take it until June 23)--then there are missing pieces that could have been used for any household task, got stuck to each other when being removed by Casey, whatever--then Casey started by putting the first piece over Caylee's nose--then Caylee started fighting back and Casey restrained her wrists and arms with 2 pieces (missing piece and Q104)--then Casey finished up with 2 pieces across the mouth.

To keep on topic, my point is that the order of the tape allows for a missing piece right next to Q104 which could account for the stain in the trunk showing 2 dark bands across the arms/wrists instead of just one.


OH! I forgot: My other theory was that Casey used a piece before Q62 (one of the missing pieces) over Caylee's mouth, then Q62 over her nose, then Caylee was fighting back and scrunched up the mouth piece in an attempt to remove it, then Casey restrained her arms, removed the mouth piece, and replaced it with 2 new mouth pieces in an "X" formation going over the chin to make extra-double-sure Caylee could not get it off.

Either of my theories involves Caylee being awake rather than chloroformed. But I'm sure there are ways to work it out that involve chloroform also.