2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[stmarysmead]

Thanks for your reply, Desquire.

I know many good and wonderful people in my life as well...and, I agree it is unfortunately easy to trash an innocent person. But there are also other kinds of people...non-"innocent people"...people who would hurt a little child who loves them. We must be prepared not to be so comfortable in our pleasant lives around good people...that we do not recognize these dangerous types.

I defer to your wisdom as an attorney. I make a nice living in a business that requires making a connection with people...understanding the things to which they can relate.

But...I would take these texts of Terris and ask any jury...have you ever sat in a hospital waiting room...waiting for news about a loved one...life or death? Have you ever heard sirens while your teenager was out driving...and had that feeling as if your stomach is in a vise? Have you ever been in a busy mall and lost track of your child for minutes?

Feel that? Remember that?
That is what Kyron's loved ones were feeling for DAYS. That is the atmosphere in which Terri Horman wrote these texts..flaunted her "prowess" to a near-stranger...wrote those words...took those graphic pictures of herself...

Could YOU have done that...in the grip of fear for your loved one?

Could you have slipped into the hospital rest room and photographed yourself in this way...written these sexually charged words to a near stranger...while the fate of someone YOU LOVE was unknown?

Could you?

Could you have joked, and giggled, and talked about these things...when your child could well be enduring the most horrific sexual abuse? Could you talk about telling lies to your attorney and ask others to lie...and brag about your ability to use your strength to subdue a grown man?

Who might have used THEIR strength to subdue your child?

That's what I would ask a jury in regard to these texts...and Terri's love and concern for that little boy.

There are monsters out there...though, you and I are blessed to have our lives populated with so many wonderful people.

 

[stmarysmead]

Just another thought..it is my opinion that most people, when someone they truly love is in jeopardy...particularly life or death jeopardy...there is just about NOTHING that supercedes the grief and fear. Any parent who has even experienced this for a moment...FELT it...gets this.

You might desperately WANT to be distracted...but he (your loved one) is in every thought...his welfare, his circumstances, his peril... consumes you.

You can't make jokes about anything that touches on their peril.

Now,maybe Terri was texting like crazy... preparing a fundraiser as suggested last night...desperate with worry and grief. If so, we will be shown those texts by her attorneys.

Till then...we have these...and the impression that I believe leaves many of us...absolutely chilled.

 

[desquire]

Thanks for the nice words but I don't claim to be wise or even very smart. I hope my posts don't come across as those of a know-it-all because I really don't know more than anyone else here.

The argument you just laid out is an emotionally compelling one and it's exactly the argument Rackner is trying to sell. The problem is, it's just an argument, it's just based on a snippet of facts, and it just takes into account one point of view. One of the occupational hazards of being a lawyer is that you become incapable of seeing just one side of a story. We live in a world where truth is rarely an absolute. We advocate a version of the truth, an interpretation of facts, but we always know that there is at least one other version of the truth/interpretation of the facts out there (it's our job to understand those other versions so that we can effectively counter them in the advocation of our side's "truth").

My problem is that the entire "case" against Terri is an incomplete, one-sided version of the truth that is built entirely on the type of person that Terri has been portrayed to be without any actual facts that implicate her in Kyron's disappearance. We've taken a huge vacuum of hard information about Kyron's disappearance and filled it with Terri because she's a flawed person - she doesn't react the way you would expect a "normal" person to, she does things that seem self-centered, she appears to have the judgment of a 13-year old, she says things that make us cringe, she has the seductive skills of a jackhammer, etc. And most of these things that we think we know about her, we know through statements made by Kaine and Desiree or these portions of text messages provided by Kaine. It's a compelling story, but it's just one side's story. I could paint an equally compelling story from the opposite viewpoint using the facts we know. The reality is we know next to nothing about whether or how Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance.

On statistics alone, I think it's reasonable to suspect Terri and clearly some of the choices she's made since Kyron's disappearance fuel that suspicion. But until we actually know if there is any real evidence that she was involved, I'm keeping an open mind. Someone did something bad to that little boy and I want to see that person is caught and punished - not becuase she is unlikable, not because her ex-husband doesn't like the way she's acted, not because of things she's done that can't be admissible at trial, but because there is some real evidence that she is the one responsible.

 

[stmarysmead]

Thanks for the nice words but I don't claim to be wise or even very smart. I hope my posts don't come across as those of a know-it-all because I really don't know more than anyone else here.

The argument you just laid out is an emotionally compelling one and it's exactly the argument Rackner is trying to sell. The problem is, it's just an argument, it's just based on a snippet of facts, and it just takes into account one point of view. One of the occupational hazards of being a lawyer is that you become incapable of seeing just one side of a story. We live in a world where truth is rarely an absolute. We advocate a version of the truth, an interpretation of facts, but we always know that there is at least one other version of the truth/interpretation of the facts out there (it's our job to understand those other versions so that we can effectively counter them in the advocation of our side's "truth").

My problem is that the entire "case" against Terri is an incomplete, one-sided version of the truth that is built entirely on the type of person that Terri has been portrayed to be without any actual facts that implicate her in Kyron's disappearance. We've taken a huge vacuum of hard information about Kyron's disappearance and filled it with Terri because she's a flawed person - she doesn't react the way you would expect a "normal" person to, she does things that seem self-centered, she appears to have the judgment of a 13-year old, she says things that make us cringe, she has the seductive skills of a jackhammer, etc. And most of these things that we think we know about her, we know through statements made by Kaine and Desiree or these portions of text messages provided by Kaine. It's a compelling story, but it's just one side's story. I could paint an equally compelling story from the opposite viewpoint using the facts we know. The reality is we know next to nothing about whether or how Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance.

On statistics alone, I think it's reasonable to suspect Terri and clearly some of the choices she's made since Kyron's disappearance fuel that suspicion. But until we actually know if there is any real evidence that she was involved, I'm keeping an open mind.


I agree with your last sentence absolutely. I have stated right here on WS that I will offer the most humble mea culpa if Terri Horman is indeed innocent of any crimes. And I am touched by the sincerity and insight in your post.

But I become frustrated with arguments elsewhere that deny the common sense of what we see before us. Terri is "off" in her reactions.

SHE IS!

Does that make her guilty , no...but the attempts to style her as this generations Mrs. Huxtable..IMO would insult any jury presented with such a theory. Does she sound in these exchanges as if her plans for selling "cupcakes for Kyron" have been deleted by Kaine's devious attorneys?

I tire of reading of courtroom games and spin...and hired hands for experts. There is no justice in that. An attorneys skill should not be a shield to hide the truth from a jury.

I could sit on a jury and find Terri innocent...but I would be relentless in any jury room if I felt the other jurors and I were being legally played. Arguments wherein everything that we find out that shows Terri in an appalling light...is then answered as being Kaine's fault....or results in the vilification of Kaine and Desiree. Or Terri is portrayed as Facebook Mother of the Year because of cute pictures.

The question I see now...is whether Terri should be allowed, after 4 months, to re-enter Baby K's life...without testifying, without mental examination, without assurance of any normal safeguards being imposed. This woman is the de facto suspect in the death of a child! She's an adult! If I err in my opinion of her...and later have to retract...I can live with that.

But if I advocate to endanger another child...to put Baby K at emotional or physical risk...absolutely NOT. Terri seems really good at coping. Let her cope until there are better assurances that she poses no danger.

Edited to add this: we can only debate here on the information we have. For the purposes of debate, I currently trust LE and Kyron's parents instincts. I trust the parents because advocating for Kyron is not an Internet pastime for them. I doubt they draw a breath without the pain of missing that child. Their agony is palpable. That resonates with me.

If Kaine is content that the investigation is on track, I'm prepared to believe that. I will stand with their "view"...until I see good reason to do otherwise.

 

[Tink56]

According to Kaine's document up there, he left with K sometime on Friday, June 26, 2010. It appears that it was before the landscaper sting attempt because someone called 9-1-1 in the afternoon to report it. Then, according to some leaked emails and the reported second 9-1-1 call, she called yet AGAIN when Kaine and K were not home by 11 p.m.-ish that evening. She still had not been served with the restraining order. After that, she went to the gym on Monday asking about Kaine and K being there. It was following that in the late afternoon that she was served with the RO.

I think the argument can be made that she was trying see K or at least get an idea about her location. But, to hear Kaine tell it, he was in contact with her via texts between Friday when he left and Monday when the RO was served to let her know what his plans were and what he thought (i.e. her being involved in Kyron's disappearance and keeping K safe).

IIRC, the sting and KH's departure were both on Saturday, June 28th.

Given the above, I imagine Bunch and Houze have text messages and emails too.

IIRC the 26th of June is a Saturday. This information probably won't change your ultimate question, though.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

 

[Billylee]

According to Kaine's document up there, he left with K sometime on Friday, June 26, 2010. It appears that it was before the landscaper sting attempt because someone called 9-1-1 in the afternoon to report it. Then, according to some leaked emails and the reported second 9-1-1 call, she called yet AGAIN when Kaine and K were not home by 11 p.m.-ish that evening. She still had not been served with the restraining order. After that, she went to the gym on Monday asking about Kaine and K being there. It was following that in the late afternoon that she was served with the RO.

I think the argument can be made that she was trying see K or at least get an idea about her location. But, to hear Kaine tell it, he was in contact with her via texts between Friday when he left and Monday when the RO was served to let her know what his plans were and what he thought (i.e. her being involved in Kyron's disappearance and keeping K safe).

Given the above, I imagine Bunch and Houze have text messages and emails too.

Hi Surfie,
I've not been able to follow as much as usual. Where did you find the bolded information above, I have not read that Kaine was in contact with her during that time. Can you help me out here? Thanks.

 

[gitana1]

Quite frankly, I am wondering where all this *surprise* is coming from. I thought we have been discussing the sexting, graphic sexual images, drinking, etc. for quite a long time. None of this is new, only a few little details that support what many of us have long figured out.

I;m way behind so sorry for posting late on this. You are right, we knew about the texting. But I think actually reading the content is shocking because seeing those words in black and white in context is different from generally knowing she sexted, ya know?

 

[gitana1]

If this is what he was talking about, all this TMI sexting stuff, I wouldn't think he would be on the verge of tears while talking about it.

If this was it he would probably be on the verge of puking and not crying.

All just MOO.

I think that the fact that the last person to see Kyron, one who has been shady about where she was on that day, is then found to have been sexting, graphically, with a brand new guy, right after contact with her infant was taken from her, would be enough to make LE cry. That conduct in context supports, to many, the idea that this woman is soulless and dangerous and likely harmed Kyron.

I believe that the revelations in this document will do several things.

The revelations of Terri's abysmal character flaws will make attempts by counsel to "fast dance" and blame others for her failings...offensive to most people....probably even this judge. The choice in the custody case..is Terri...giggling, photographing herself masturbating, recipient of unknown monies...caring only about her own gratification...or the Dad whose job kept the family fed and the mortgage paid...trying to deal, ineptly perhaps, with her problems.

I think that line if "questioning" makes her attorneys look aligned with endangering a child again. It makes them look complicit...slick...offensive. All things the public despises when a child is at risk.

Is a judge going to hand the Baby to her on slick lawyering? Can any judge be so impervious to public opinion as to think these issues...and any fast talk by her attorneys...will give HIM cover to a public who now sees Facebook Terr's mask torn away?

There is no moral equivalency here. Terri is not just reckless and morally depraved...several judges believe there is evidence that she is capable of Murder for Hire and making a little boy vanish!

These two things are not equal. Just "naughty" on both sides.

No.

A missing little boy, Murder for Hire, sexual depravity in the context of the timing and the fact this guy is almost a stranger...the coldness...this woman is now publicly repulsive. The judge cannot equate this to blaming Kaine in equal measure.

No fancy legal footwork will work here.

Nor would I want it too. Not if Baby K and justice for Kyron is my first concern.

Will it be the Dad who perhaps did not manage the situation perfectly...but came home as often as he could...stayed and tried to keep the family together?

Or giggling, promiscuous, reckless Terri...wherein the pattern of SELF-first is dominant. Drunk and demanding the Baby meet HER needs. Drunk and argumentative. Drunk and sexting. Doing "similar" disgusting things with the guy hired to do the yard. Indiscriminate. Reckless. Entirely self-focused.

Terri has smeared herself. Undermined her false depiction of her "Mommy skills." No judge can call this equal on both sides.

The line of questioning you responded to would absolutely never happen at all in this case unless TH chose to testify and allow an evidentiary hearing to be put on. You can't refuse to participate in the judicial process in a civil case by refusing to answer any questions, while at the same time forcing the other side to answer questions. Besides, that line of questioning would not do anything to diminish the horrible problems TH has as a result of the allegations against her in the context of the family law case.

There are MANY THAT respectfully YET STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH the entire basis above.. None of us[that have no 1st hand experience and knowledge in this vein of the law] have a clue what a well educated defense lawyer team such as Bunch and Houze will question and STRONGLY DISAGREE that they would be foolish in engaging in such a line of questioning as is given as an example above... and only those that legitimately have 1st hand experience and knowledge could even begin to "guess"[and that is all that can be done is guess, and wildly guess at that] would be an atty with this exact vein of law practiced..

and post after post our verified lawyers have stated that Terri has done irreparable damage to her interests of gaining any parenting time[along with much and many detailed posts speaking in lay terms just what a tangled web that Terri herself has weaved]..

IMO no atty worth his salt would engage in anything even resembling the above.. and am anxious to get gitana1's opinions and comments on this latest doc filed with the courts yesterday..as she has been a treasure trove of knowledge and experience in this exact vein of law and a tremendous asset to all of us here in the Kyron Forum...

I found some evidentiary issues in Kaine's doc - hearsay, lack of foundation, etc. But I think the content is powerful enough that the judge will be swayed to a large degree by Kaine's argument regardless of evidentiary problems. The best argument I think he makes against any kind of contact is a speculative one - that Baby K may have witnessed something and thus contact with mama could be detrimental to her. Other than that, a judge may find that supervised visits would still be okay. I can certainly understand though why KH does not want them and I personally agree with him. I hope he prevails.

 

[cluciano63]

I hope Kaine gets full custody and his divorce soon and believe he will do so. I think that could have happened without attaching these texts to his legal case, but that is my opinion.

When a woman allows a new man into her life and that man does something to her child, we (the general public) tend to come down very hard on the woman. If a woman left her husband, a man known to have alcohol issues, a citation in the past for driving drunk with a child, and episodes of mental problems and neglect, in charge of a baby and a young child, most of us would be appalled and furious that she would do so, even if she had to go out to work. To me, that is what Kaine did.

This is just my opinion, and clearly, he is the better parent at this point for his baby, regardless of Terri's guilt regarding Kyron. She has to get a handle on her drinking etc. if she wants to be a part of her child's life, ever (assuming she gets a chance and is not in prison.)

I have nothing against Kaine and certainly no fondness for Terri. I just feel that some of his words show that he was well aware of serious problems and potential dangers to his children due to Terri's actions and/or addictions. This household was bound to have a tragedy of some sort. Thankful that the baby is not physically harmed, and at this point, only God knows what is Kyron's fate.

 

[Trt]

According to the affadavit that Kaine signed, LE did provide both Rackner and Terri's counsel with copies of the texts between Terri and Michael Cook. These lawyers could have filed a motion at any timesfter receiving the texts to try and get them sealed. Best guess is that Terri doesn't care whether or not anyone knows about her sexting. She doesn't seem to care about much.

I think there are more than emotional arguments for why Terri is most probably involved in Kyron's disappearance. High on my list is the email she sent to the unamed person citing that Kyron was last seen with an unknown male and two girls. If Terri has knowledge of such information, why hasn't she shared it with LE? And if I am to belive that she did and LE just hasn't acted on it, why haven't Terri and her lawyers used the media to get this information to the public and demand that this unknown male is found and questioned about what he knows about Kyron's disappearance? Also, why has her story changed? Why has she failed two polygraph tests and walked out on a third? None of these things have anything to do with her personality or whether or not I could sit and have a drink with her. These are just things that don't happen in a child's investigation without some very serious suspicions being raised.

We are getting a one-sided view because that is the way that Terri chooses to play her hand. She chooses not to talk with LE and exercise her right to remain silent. So we have the allegations of her husband and LE that are hanging out there to be speculated on ad nauseum.

Jmo

 

[gitana1]

bbm

No, I wouldn't. He says he was present and responsible for her care 5-7 days a week. He says he was present and caring for the kids in the afternoons and evenings, when Terri was visibly intoxicated and passing out by 7pm. He doesn't need LE or friends or neighbors or witnesses to tell him this. He claims he was there and witnessed this himself.

So either his earlier statements to the media were untrue, or this document is. It can't be both ways.

It goes beyond trying to keep peace when living with an alcoholic. I do not place blame on Kaine for Kyron's disappearance, and I have all the sympathy in the world for his predicament right now. What I am questioning is... why he did not take steps to rectify the situation when it was going on. He KNEW and he did nothing to stop it. His baby daughter could have been seriously hurt or died while Terri was alone with her. I'm sure he was required to go to his job occasionally.
We oftentimes come down pretty hard on women who seem to sit back and allow abuse of their children by their SO's. We blame them when something bad happens to the child, and lament about WHY she did not leave him, or WHY she allowed it to happen. This is no different, IMO.

I think a parent who is aware their partner is endangering their child should most certainly take action to ensure the safety of the child. Should he be arrested? No. If CPS had been alerted during this time and it was found that he was present during all of this (as he claims to be) and allowed this to continue on a regular basis --- the part about it being "common" the baby was awake and unsupervised is alarming as hell --- I suspect he would have had to answer for his lack of action.

I see there's been a bit of talk about whether KH was neglectful for witnessing what he says was going on with Baby K and leaving her in that situation. I see nowhere where it says he saw the baby up at 1:00 a.m. and just left her up while he went merrily to bed. I do not see where he says he found TH passed out on the couch with the baby and just left the baby there while he went on his way. He said he would try to intervene and then she became hostile but that could mean if he confronted her about her conduct, she'd get upset. It doesn't preclude him from gently removing baby K from the couch and taking her somewhere else while mama remained passed out on the couch. I got that mom got drunk at night - when dad was home. And that otherwise mom did not have baby on a good schedule and played around on the computer a lot while with the baby instead of interacting. Good parenting? Nope. Merits a call to CPS? Maybe not. Like someone said earlier, KH may have been hoping it was due to PPD and would clear up soon.

As awful as it is, I hope Desiree had seen all of this smut before it hit the newspapers. It would be dreadful if she learned it just last night. But perhaps these are what she called the emails that were disgusting.

I would not be surprised if we hear from her soon...she must want to turn the attention back to where it belongs, on Kyron and the fact that he is still missing.

As a divorce attorney, I actually think this is far different than your run of the mill nasty divorce. And I think TH's conduct in the time directly after the little boy she raised went missing is extremely vital to what happened to Kyron and getting him justice. Will it help find him? Maybe he'll never be found. But I think it has everything to do with ultimate justice in this case. It can lead to prosecuting the person who made him disappear. Frankly, I think the attention is right where it needs to be at the moment.

[

I agree with your last sentence absolutely. I have stated right here on WS that I will offer the most humble mea culpa if Terri Horman is indeed innocent of any crimes. And I am touched by the sincerity and insight in your post.

But I become frustrated with arguments elsewhere that deny the common sense of what we see before us. Terri is "off" in her reactions.

SHE IS!

Does that make her guilty , no...but the attempts to style her as this generations Mrs. Huxtable..IMO would insult any jury presented with such a theory. Does she sound in these exchanges as if her plans for selling "cupcakes for Kyron" have been deleted by Kaine's devious attorneys?

I tire of reading of courtroom games and spin...and hired hands for experts. There is no justice in that. An attorneys skill should not be a shield to hide the truth from a jury.

I could sit on a jury and find Terri innocent...but I would be relentless in any jury room if I felt the other jurors and I were being legally played. Arguments wherein everything that we find out that shows Terri in an appalling light...is then answered as being Kaine's fault....or results in the vilification of Kaine and Desiree. Or Terri is portrayed as Facebook Mother of the Year because of cute pictures.

The question I see now...is whether Terri should be allowed, after 4 months, to re-enter Baby K's life...without testifying, without mental examination, without assurance of any normal safeguards being imposed. This woman is the de facto suspect in the death of a child! She's an adult! If I err in my opinion of her...and later have to retract...I can live with that.

But if I advocate to endanger another child...to put Baby K at emotional or physical risk...absolutely NOT. Terri seems really good at coping. Let her cope until there are better assurances that she poses no danger.

Edited to add this: we can only debate here on the information we have. For the purposes of debate, I currently trust LE and Kyron's parents instincts. I trust the parents because advocating for Kyron is not an Internet pastime for them. I doubt they draw a breath without the pain of missing that child. Their agony is palpable. That resonates with me.

If Kaine is content that the investigation is on track, I'm prepared to believe that. I will stand with their "view"...until I see good reason to do otherwise.

This was a beautifully written post IMO, Stmarysmead. Let me add: TH, if she ever dares to submit evidence in the disso case, may make just as nasty accusations but I really doubt that they will be just as accurate. Somehow I don't see stoic, engineer type Kaine passing out on couches, leaving his baby unattended or off schedule, or sending sexually explicit messages to a new flame in the weeks after his precious child just went missing. And we know now that that last "accusation" as against TH is, in fact, accurate.

 

[txsvicki]

Kaine couldn't have called CPS on Terri, because he'd also be calling them on himself. They may have even told him not to leave the kids unsupervised with her or to move them away from her. The baby must not have been put to bed at 7-8pm. Kyron must have been in bed though, since he's said to have always slept 12 hours per night. Terri was supposedly sleeping on the couch with the baby, so Kaine must have been going on to bed or not putting the baby into her own bed after Terri passed out. I doubt she would have woke up and took the baby out of her crib, but suppose it could happen. It is sort of odd. Where the heck was he so early in the evening when Terri was supposedly passed out due to drinking? Why didn't he take the baby into the bedroom with him...

 

[mmmagique]

Kaine couldn't have called CPS on Terri, because he'd also be calling them on himself.

Why do you say this?

They may have even told him not to leave the kids unsupervised with her or to move them away from her.

They may have. They may have said the allegations were unfounded. We'll never know.

The baby must not have been put to bed at 7-8pm. Kyron must have been in bed though, since he's said to have always slept 12 hours per night.

I haven't seen this. Do you have a link?

Terri was supposedly sleeping on the couch with the baby, so Kaine must have been going on to bed or not putting the baby into her own bed after Terri passed out. I doubt she would have woke up and took the baby out of her crib, but suppose it could happen. It is sort of odd.

Not really. If the baby wasn't on a regular schedule (and even if she was) it's not unusual for babies to wake up their parents in the middle of the night. It's also not unusual for parents to be so knackered that they fall asleep while feeding said baby.

Where the heck was he so early in the evening when Terri was supposedly passed out due to drinking? Why didn't he take the baby into the bedroom with him...

I'm guessing on the couch with her, watching tv. I have no evidence he didn't.

 

[pufnstuf]

I think that the fact that the last person to see Kyron, one who has been shady about where she was on that day, is then found to have been sexting, graphically, with a brand new guy, right after contact with her infant was taken from her, would be enough to make LE cry. That conduct in context supports, to many, the idea that this woman is soulless and dangerous and likely harmed Kyron.



The line of questioning you responded to would absolutely never happen at all in this case unless TH chose to testify and allow an evidentiary hearing to be put on. You can't refuse to participate in the judicial process in a civil case by refusing to answer any questions, while at the same time forcing the other side to answer questions. Besides, that line of questioning would not do anything to diminish the horrible problems TH has as a result of the allegations against her in the context of the family law case.



I found some evidentiary issues in Kaine's doc - hearsay, lack of foundation, etc. But I think the content is powerful enough that the judge will be swayed to a large degree by Kaine's argument regardless of evidentiary problems. The best argument I think he makes against any kind of contact is a speculative one - that Baby K may have witnessed something and thus contact with mama could be detrimental to her. Other than that, a judge may find that supervised visits would still be okay. I can certainly understand though why KH does not want them and I personally agree with him. I hope he prevails.

Thanks so much for your objectivity.... I always appreciate your posts.

 

[krowdkat]

I have a cousin whose soon to be ex is a raging alcoholic. He has been for years. He holds down a full time job during the day and drinks until he passes out every single night. Although, my cousin works full time as a nurse, she is the primary caregiver to her two girls in the evenings. She is only just now leaving her husband (her girls are 12 and 8) because she was terrified the divorce judge would give her husband visitation which would leave him alone and in charge of her kids without her presence.

Based on my knowledge of her sad/frustrating experience with an alcoholic spouse (a nightly blackout drinker) I believe it's completely plausable that baby K and the other kids could have gone to bed at a reasonable hour 8 or 9 ish and then for Kaine to wake up and find TH had gotten baby K out of bed after Kaine had retired for the evening and find TH blacked out on the couch.

I also understand my cousin's fear of leaving her daughters alone with a black out drunk in the evenings as opposed to during the day and her knowing he was sober and functional and that her girls adored their dad.

 

[xin]

This is upsetting on many levels. Just tragic. Yet it's consistent with what many here have suspected was going on with Terri in the home.

This makes me wonder if Kyron's bio-mom was unaware of the true emotional condition of Kyron's full-time caretaker/stepmom in the last 18 months of his life. I suspect (IMO) Desiree was kept in the dark about it. I expect Kaine was hoping against hope Terri would snap out of it? The dynamic is very odd, and perhaps there is more to that part of the story. :shakehead:

Perhaps we'll learn even more if affidavits supporting Terri are coming from her side...

perhaps not...

The affidavit clarifies that Kaine knew Terri was battling her alcoholism while caring for the children. I have a feeling that only Kaine knew what was going on with Terri. Even then, as he kept Terri's alcohol abuse secrets, he must have not completely understood how deeply disturbed she truly was ... and how much the kids were suffering too.

:cry:

What you said, and I can't help but wonder why Kaine didn't put the baby to bed properly. He says they shared responsibilities, so where the hell was he while this went on every night? No excuse, really. Glad he was home a lot, but as said above--there is more to this. Glad baby K is doing well.

Sounds like more to the story. This was NOT your happy family scene, IMO. Poor Kyron. Where was he during the pass-out and baby up-late shenanigans? Brings up lots of questions about what really went on in that house. Harsh, but ... Geez.

 

[pufnstuf]

respectfully snipped....

Sounds like more to the story. This was NOT your happy family scene, IMO. Poor Kyron. Where was he during the pass-out and baby up-late shenanigans? Brings up lots of questions about what really went on in that house. Harsh, but ... Geez.

You know, that's an excellent question... more than likely he learned to stay in his room when trouble was brewing. Probably didn't get a lot of sleep, or maybe interrupted sleep at best, with the craziness in the house.

No wonder he was having "discipline" problems at school. A house that disruptive--everyone suffers.

 

[BeanE]

Posting for reference.

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

7. It was common to find K up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.

Kaine's deposition PDF pages 4 and 5, items 6 and 7:
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

 

[Melanie]

I only have 1 question. KH goes on about TH being passed out drunk on the couch, while disrupting baby K's schedule. WHY didn't he do anything about it then. I don't care if she got miffed if he tried to intervene -- I'd personally kick her to the curb. . After all he was home 3 out of 5 working days per week.

You can't go back and change history, but in this case I wish he had

MOO

Mel

 

[BeanE]

I haven't seen this. Do you have a link?

Link for transcription of Kaine saying Kyron sleeps for 12 or more hours a night, in his telling of how Kyron stays in bed in the mornings.

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